How to get Elite Talent on the Cardinals

[Melville]

It's going to be difficult unless they get very lucky with what they have.

There is no such thing as being lucky enough through the draft, and through trading for an assemblage of mid-range prospects, to become a serious post-season contender.
It does not and cannot happen.

[rockondlouie]

ELITE players will only come via the draft.....less likely via trades since POBO/GM's don't normally deal ELITE players unless ordered to do so by ownership (re: can't afford them anymore)...... and almost 100% not via free agency since BDWJR will never, ever win a bidding war for a ELITE player.

So DRAFT it is, possibly via the draft and no chance from FA!

[HorseTrader]

I think in some ways you go back to the old Cardinal play from the days pre Big Mac. You trade for a top player who is about to become a free agent. Give him a season or part of a season in St. louis. Use that experience to convince him to stay around. Use him or them to attract a very good free agent.

Of course first step is drafting and developing some good players. Build the base of the team with the draft. You need the Mabry's, Lankford's, and Polanco's of the world to support the superstars. Hopefully the foundation well be more solid at end of this season. Ivan, Winn, Burly, ........

[Jeff Goldblum]

Get lucky and draft one of the best hitters in history in the 10th round.

[OldRed]

It's going to be difficult unless they get very lucky with what they have.

There is no such thing as being lucky enough through the draft, and through trading for an assemblage of mid-range prospects, to become a serious post-season contender.
It does not and cannot happen.

Brock, Flood, Groat, White, McGee and many others.

[Adam2]

I think if the next Pujols comes around for the Cardinals, they will figure out how to keep him through his prime. Meaning, if Walker had lived up to the hype, I think they'd have him locked up through most of his 20s already. I also think they will play in the Sonny Gray/Contreras type markets as well. But, they are certainly going to need their stars to come from within, and they will have to get savvy in the international market. There still has to be ways to find a competitive advantage there.

One thing is for certain, once the lockout is over, the Cardinals will have a ton of money to spend. I don't see them being in the top 10 any longer, but they can still be in the top half. If that's so, then they could very well go after a couple big name FAs if they have a core in place that warrants the investment.

Fine write. I can’t add a thing but good work. I did find something.

No. Not a Pujols type. Too rare. I consider Albert a top 5 in my he game. That just won’t happen. I less caliber stud. Where ever he is.

agreed, waiting for or developing a pujols type is a dream. That's a once in an organization type draft player. He isn't your usual successful draft. I think our hope should be more on the draft and develop of the Evan Longoria, Andruw Jones, Julio Rodriguez type. perennial all stars, potentially sneak into the HOF. If we are waiting for the next Albert, we will most likely be waiting past all our liftetimes.

[Melville]

The "cake" of this is always going to be drafting, international prospect signings, and player development. Those things both generate talent for you directly and give you the trade chips to trade for talent.

Outright signing of expensive talent can only be the thin "icing" on the cake.

And you have to have your cake before you can ice it.

So let’s be clear. When the team spends, it won’t be top name. Is that correct.

As for the cake, they are building that. So far, a group of young pitchers, who through attrition and herd mentality, may produce a gem.

It depends.

If you believe, like I do, that they will bounce back at some point to a $170, $180, etc. million payroll, then I think there will be room for like 2 or 3 star/superstar level signings, but they will be rare.

Correct.
The team can develop some good young players - but cannot compete seriously without spending at least 170 - 180M a year.
Which, I believe they will.
As I was first and alone to understand at the time, the wasted time and money on the Pujols/Wainwright/Molina farewell goodwill legacy nostalgic reunion marketing tour was completely TOXIC to the organization and led in a straight line directly to the point the organization is now at - exactly as I predicted.
Bloom, I believe, is smart enough that - once the toxic spill has been cleaned up - he will spend with an eye toward winning games rather than seeking propaganda campaigns built on distant memories.
The team has enough talen to play above .500 ball in 2026 - but can only fully rebound once spending is restored.

[sikeston bulldog2]

ELITE players will only come via the draft.....less likely via trades since POBO/GM's don't normally deal ELITE players unless ordered to do so by ownership (re: can't afford them anymore)...... and almost 100% not via free agency since BDWJR will never, ever win a bidding war for a ELITE player.

So DRAFT it is, possibly via the draft and no chance from FA!

What if the CBA changes, and ownership of young players decreases, arb., free agency, etc.

Then would a drafted player still be the way, knowing the stud will leave in 3-5 years. Cant we price ourselves out here too.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I think if the next Pujols comes around for the Cardinals, they will figure out how to keep him through his prime. Meaning, if Walker had lived up to the hype, I think they'd have him locked up through most of his 20s already. I also think they will play in the Sonny Gray/Contreras type markets as well. But, they are certainly going to need their stars to come from within, and they will have to get savvy in the international market. There still has to be ways to find a competitive advantage there.

One thing is for certain, once the lockout is over, the Cardinals will have a ton of money to spend. I don't see them being in the top 10 any longer, but they can still be in the top half. If that's so, then they could very well go after a couple big name FAs if they have a core in place that warrants the investment.

Fine write. I can’t add a thing but good work. I did find something.

No. Not a Pujols type. Too rare. I consider Albert a top 5 in my he game. That just won’t happen. I less caliber stud. Where ever he is.

agreed, waiting for or developing a pujols type is a dream. That's a once in an organization type draft player. He isn't your usual successful draft. I think our hope should be more on the draft and develop of the Evan Longoria, Andruw Jones, Julio Rodriguez type. perennial all stars, potentially sneak into the HOF. If we are waiting for the next Albert, we will most likely be waiting past all our liftetimes.

Fine write. I agree.

[Melville]

It's going to be difficult unless they get very lucky with what they have.

There is no such thing as being lucky enough through the draft, and through trading for an assemblage of mid-range prospects, to become a serious post-season contender.
It does not and cannot happen.

Brock, Flood, Groat, White, McGee and many others.

You prove my point brilliantly.
That was the 1960's.
Pre free agency.
As for McGee, even then pieces had to be added from the outside (and he was one of them).
Ever more true now.

[rockondlouie]

ELITE players will only come via the draft.....less likely via trades since POBO/GM's don't normally deal ELITE players unless ordered to do so by ownership (re: can't afford them anymore)...... and almost 100% not via free agency since BDWJR will never, ever win a bidding war for a ELITE player.

So DRAFT it is, possibly via the draft and no chance from FA!

What if the CBA changes, and ownership of young players decreases, arb., free agency, etc.

Then would a drafted player still be the way, knowing the stud will leave in 3-5 years. Cant we price ourselves out here too.

I think it's the only way teams like the Cardinals can acquire ELITE (re: superstar) players BDog.

The days of Walt Jocketty practically stealing ELITE players is long over (unless an owner like the Red Sox demands his POBO deal a M. Betts).

[OldRed]

It's going to be difficult unless they get very lucky with what they have.

There is no such thing as being lucky enough through the draft, and through trading for an assemblage of mid-range prospects, to become a serious post-season contender.
It does not and cannot happen.

Brock, Flood, Groat, White, McGee and many others.

You prove my point brilliantly.
That was the 1960's.
Pre free agency.
As for McGee, even then pieces had to be added from the outside (and he was one of them).
Ever more true now.

Name a couple that were added in the 80's other than trades.

[2ninr]

The "cake" of this is always going to be drafting, international prospect signings, and player development. Those things both generate talent for you directly and give you the trade chips to trade for talent.

Outright signing of expensive talent can only be the thin "icing" on the cake.

And you have to have your cake before you can ice it.

So let’s be clear. When the team spends, it won’t be top name. Is that correct.

As for the cake, they are building that. So far, a group of young pitchers, who through attrition and herd mentality, may produce a gem.

It never was top name. Even our own guy (Pujols,) We traded for than extended some good players. I expect us to extend our own guys and sign free agents where needed. If we have superstars, they will be home grown.

[shebashab]

First off there WILL be an extended lockout after '26. Personally I don't see baseball happening in '27 at all. With the current CBA there is no place where the smaller market teams can add high end talent through signing. For years the Rays just did the farm system better and traded potential high dollar young players to gather more cost controlled talent. Problem is that all the big markets have now invested into player development to the point that smaller markets have no pathway to competition. At the same time the gap through TV revenue has grown considerably. While we like to talk about the Money the Dodgers are willing to spend, in reality the difference in income between the Cards and Dodgers would completely cover the Dodgers payroll and luxury tax. Smaller market have to draw a line in the sand or the sport will slowly big a big city sport and will just die slowly.

[sikeston bulldog2]

First off there WILL be an extended lockout after '26. Personally I don't see baseball happening in '27 at all. With the current CBA there is no place where the smaller market teams can add high end talent through signing. For years the Rays just did the farm system better and traded potential high dollar young players to gather more cost controlled talent. Problem is that all the big markets have now invested into player development to the point that smaller markets have no pathway to competition. At the same time the gap through TV revenue has grown considerably. While we like to talk about the Money the Dodgers are willing to spend, in reality the difference in income between the Cards and Dodgers would completely cover the Dodgers payroll and luxury tax. Smaller market have to draw a line in the sand or the sport will slowly big a big city sport and will just die slowly.

Die slowly? I disagree. Once eroded, who knows how quick it falls. I guess the question today is, how bad is the decay.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well it appears according to you all, that a league level stud will never come to STL. Through signing.

Farm raised. Trade.

The long, and winding road…