The fact that veterans waived NTC’s this time indicates that their baseline expectation of what’s left is not very good

[Carp4Cy]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

[Jatalk]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

I think you are stating sort of the obvious. They factored in their age and years left playing. They have a better shot at success somewhere else.

And I don’t think their relationship with Oli had anything to do with it.

[Bomber1]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

Some real mental gymnastics there.

[sp25]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

It's obvious the team is going in a new direction and won't contend for at least a couple of years. The vets needed to move on to places where they might be able to contribute to a winning team, rather than be in the way of the new direction. Not that complicated.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I don't see this as a revelation. They announced a rebuild (or whatever term you prefer) and all those guys know it will take at least until 2027 before the team competes again. More likely 2028.

As for Oli I don't see that connection.

[Carp4Cy]

I don't see this as a revelation. They announced a rebuild (or whatever term you prefer) and all those guys know it will take at least until 2027 before the team competes again. More likely 2028.

As for Oli I don't see that connection.

Well, a lot of people seemed offended that our Pecota win projection was only 66 and argue that we could be better than last year. So that’s the basic idea I’m thinking to debunk.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I don't see this as a revelation. They announced a rebuild (or whatever term you prefer) and all those guys know it will take at least until 2027 before the team competes again. More likely 2028.

As for Oli I don't see that connection.

Well, a lot of people seemed offended that our Pecota win projection was only 66 and argue that we could be better than last year. So that’s the basic idea I’m thinking to debunk.

Could have opined in the Pecota thread I guess. I agree this years team will not win 81 games.

[Ozziesfan41]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

It doesn’t really matter what they thought lol they thought last years team was a playoff team and wanted to stay clearly they were wrong on that one so they probably thought well if they didnt win then they wont win this season either so decided to change their minds. Bloom also told them the directions of the team so that no doubt influenced their decision. I mean veterans are very often wrong Nikolas said he said he would like to tell the doubters to eat [shirt] then the team went out and didnt win anything

[Cardinals1964]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

The expectation according to Las Vegas is 69 to 71 wins depending on the day. 81 wins would make Marmol Manager of the Year.

[Cardinals1964]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

It doesn’t really matter what they thought lol they thought last years team was a playoff team and wanted to stay clearly they were wrong on that one so they probably thought well if they didnt win then they wont win this season either so decided to change their minds. Bloom also told them the directions of the team so that no doubt influenced their decision. I mean veterans are very often wrong Nikolas said he said he would like to tell the doubters to eat [shirt] then the team went out and didnt win anything

Or it could be they didn’t feel like moving unless it was financially in their best interest

[Ronnie Dobbs]

PECOTA predictions caused this?

[Adam2]

I think it was a domino effect. If all the vets stayed there was an outside shot (very outside) that the team could compete. Once Sonny left that made the decision far easier for Contreras and Nolan. They knew without gray that any chance this team had of competing for a post season spot was gone.

I don't think Marmol had any effect on it

[ramfandan]

agree that Oli had no bearing on decision to play elsewhere. Have seen interviews/stories in past where Arenado said he got along very well with Oli .
It's been my experience that players do not decide on teams based on who the manager is .

[scoutyjones2]

Or else they really dislike Ollie

Some of you expect this team of youngsters to be better than 2025. Ensure anything is possible, but I do not think that our baseline expectation should be anywhere near 81 wins.

Consider that after 2024, gray and Wilson both said they wanted to stay here and Nolan actively exercised his no trade to stay.

This time around all three were convinced to wave, and that was before Donovan was traded. This says to me that they don’t expect this group of youngsters to be anywhere near a better team than last year without them because if our expectation of being better than 2025 is correct and these veterans agreed, then adding their experience and then probably not trading Donovan would add at least seven war to say an 81 one team which gets us to 88+ wins and playoff contention.

So if the veterans don’t think we can get to playoff contention with them on the roster, then I see no reason to expect this team to be any better than last year without their contributions. Hopefully we exceed expectations, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if that 66 win total proved to be correct correct

Not necessarily.