My hope with Herrera at catcher.

[Carp4Cy]

So for the last few years:
1. 2023: Woodford is the 6th starter! Crashes.
2. 2023: Willson knows the pitchers! Maybe not…
3. 2024: Scott is ready! Nope.
4. 2024: Thompson is our 6th starter! Nope.

With Herrera, I respect he wants to catch. And, I respect the cards org for giving him the opportunity.

But, I’m hoping the Cards’ talent eval will be able to QUICKLY evaluate his readiness before the season begins.

The way the Herrera thing goes, I think will give us insight to the talent evaluation in the system.

Good luck, Herrera.

You respect an organization for attempting to force fit a player into a role for which he is not suitable?
I give to respect organizations and leaders who are truthful with associates and set them up for success rather than failure.

Mike Piazza.
Jorge Posada
Both won pennants while never sniffing a gold glove. C doesn't have to be glove first for team success.

Posada threw out 28% and Piazza 23% for their careers. Herrera threw out 0 last year

and he threw out 33% in 2023. Both years were small samples.

[rockondlouie]

of course...if Ivan was Piazza or Posada-eque, and throws out 20%...you can live with it.

he's neither

+1

Unless he can throw out 1 of every 5 base runners, then he doesn't belong behind the plate.

The bat definitely plays, just (likely) not behind the plate (hello DH....maybe a few games at 1st base).

[zuck698]

0%. Just imagine every single or a walk is basically a double. That would have been Ivan last year. Pages was number 5 in baseball with a 28% rate of caught stealing. Ivan has to be at the minimum of at least 15% or more. There has to be at least a deterrent to steal in the opposing teams mind. I hope that he was just hurt, as his minor league career showed a 25% rate of success. Hard to believe he could lose that arm that quickly.

[ecleme22]

0%. Just imagine every single or a walk is basically a double. That would have been Ivan last year. Pages was number 5 in baseball with a 28% rate of caught stealing. Ivan has to be at the minimum of at least 15% or more. There has to be at least a deterrent to steal in the opposing teams mind. I hope that he was just hurt, as his minor league career showed a 25% rate of success. Hard to believe he could lose that arm that quickly.

And the rationale for my OP is hopefully, if IH struggles in ST, the Cards org can identify it quickly and pivot.

[Dazepster]

My hope.

He hits so well that he never sees catcher again. Outfield, DH, 1B maybe, just not crouching behind a plate getting the [shirt] knocked out of himself.

Automated Strike Zone. How about Automated catchers.

Guys making too much money relative to injury risk and or often compromised performance due to being nicked up. Get rid of em. Replace with a basket. Program it so it randomly gives up passed balls etc. Hack it for a True Home Field advantage. Lol

[ilcubuffs]

Would love to see the player eval report/document that says Herrera catching is even a good idea. Pretty tough on any pitcher, rookie or vet, when every runner is an auto double.

We shall see if Ivan's offense is real deal. Will the MLB pitchers change their approach to him and can he adapt? Gorman fell off the face of the earth when faced with similar situation.

How about just putting this player in the best position for success and let him attempt to master the situation?

[Talkin' Baseball]

Would love to see the player eval report/document that says Herrera catching is even a good idea. Pretty tough on any pitcher, rookie or vet, when every runner is an auto double.

We shall see if Ivan's offense is real deal. Will the MLB pitchers change their approach to him and can he adapt? Gorman fell off the face of the earth when faced with similar situation.

How about just putting this player in the best position for success and let him attempt to master the situation?

I have no doubts about Herrera's bat.

Your last sentence is the core question. It sounds to simple to be the answer, but it is.

[okcardfan]

It's one thing to be stupid. It's entirely another thing to be willfully ignorant of facts that are staring you in the face.

How many of you have never heard that Herrera had elbow surgery this offseason?

Geez . . .

[dugoutrex]

So for the last few years:
1. 2023: Woodford is the 6th starter! Crashes.
2. 2023: Willson knows the pitchers! Maybe not…
3. 2024: Scott is ready! Nope.
4. 2024: Thompson is our 6th starter! Nope.

With Herrera, I respect he wants to catch. And, I respect the cards org for giving him the opportunity.

But, I’m hoping the Cards’ talent eval will be able to QUICKLY evaluate his readiness before the season begins.

The way the Herrera thing goes, I think will give us insight to the talent evaluation in the system.

Good luck, Herrera.

You respect an organization for attempting to force fit a player into a role for which he is not suitable?
I give to respect organizations and leaders who are truthful with associates and set them up for success rather than failure.

The narrative about Herrera not being a good C is ridiculous and is fueled by many on here who have never even seen him catch a lot. They act like the guy can't receive a ball or throw the ball more than 20 feet.

I'll bet that Herrera not only starts the year as our C, but is an All-Star come July.

Fact: in 2024 and 2025 Herrera was forced out of the starting role by the coaches and pitching staff due to his poor defensive skill set.
Herrera not being a good C is not a narrative.
It is an established fact.
The facts may change - though after 9 years as a professional catcher, it is incredibly unlikely.

and yet ... you are still hopeful for Gormy after all these years lol

[Cusecards]

Herrera probably catches more negativity for his defense than he deserves.
I could see him being average with more experience.
However:
*They desperately need his bat in the lineup.
*The system has multiple catching prospects on the way.
*Has struggled to stay healthy.

I still think he gets moved.
Just my opinion.

I think so too. I don't think he was ever going to be great, but I don't think he's that bad. Yea, he couldn't throw anyone out, but he was hurt the entire season. If he wants to dedicate himself to being able to stick behind the plate, which is apparently his idea, I'm glad they're letting him try. William Contreras was a bad catcher for several years with Atlanta, then when he was traded to Milwaukee he became very good.

Another concern I have is that he has gotten banged up back there, so it would be nice to see if he can stay healthy. If not, that's a reason to move him.

Obviously no harm in giving him more of a look behind the plate.
With Bernal(ready late 2026?) and Rodriquez(ready 2027?) probably their two best Catching prospects they have
some time.
Not sure about Crooks?
And like you said...the need for his bat combined with health concerns could force his position move??

[CNYFan]

Even if the shoulder is better:
Really slow pop time
Poor blocking skills
Poor framing skills
Staff prefers Pages to call the game.

[Melville]

Even if the shoulder is better:
Really slow pop time
Poor blocking skills
Poor framing skills
Staff prefers Pages to call the game.

All indisputably true.

[riff raff]

Even if the shoulder is better:
Really slow pop time
Poor blocking skills
Poor framing skills
Staff prefers Pages to call the game.

Elbow

[okcardfan]

Even if the shoulder is better:
Really slow pop time
Poor blocking skills
Poor framing skills
Staff prefers Pages to call the game.

Oh, I am pleased to see that we have another very well-informed critic of Ivan Herrera.

Shoulder?

Uh, his right elbow was operated on to remove bone spurs. As Herrera himself said pre-surgery, he couldn't straighten his arm; the smallest angle he could get his arm to was about a 30% angle.

Since you were so accurate about his injury, what would you think if I judged your other criticisms of him to enjoy a similar level of facts?

Geez . . .

[renostl]

Even if the shoulder is better:
Really slow pop time
Poor blocking skills
Poor framing skills
Staff prefers Pages to call the game.

The season that IH actually has some symbol of a sample size was 2024.
That year according to statcast.

Pop times IH 1.99 avg 2.0 WC 1.97, PP was 1.93

Blocks above avg IH 3, in 2576 opportunities, PP 1 in 6099 opportunities

Catcher Framing runs IH 0 neutral on 383 pitches, PP -2 on 454 pitches.

His CS has been bad, his arm has also been bad.
Catchers CS above average IH was -4, PP was also bad -3 done with the same pitching staff.

Who the staff prefers is unknown and the staff has changed. The game calling will
also change. Coaching and game planning influence both catchers.

It is fine to judge him on his arm which has been weak. His blocking and framing though
has kept pace with the defensive catcher in Pages. Neither excel.

IMO, IH is unlikely to transform beyond an average defensive catcher IF everything goes well.
Makes you wonder why try when his best might only be average at best and there are alternatives
if not now soon. The only thought that comes to mind is he seen as a possible
60-80 game catcher at most.