If You Hate What The Cardinals Are Doing

[Talkin' Baseball]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

[OldRed]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

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[bretto12]

I don't think any of their FA's move the needle. The Giants will finish no better than third in their division and will not make the playoffs. They are stuck in neutral, just as the Cards were before this year.

[Bob39]

I don't think the Giants, Cardinals, or any MLB franchise are saying phooey to analytics. Pretty much everyone uses them now in some capacity. Baseball is not other sports where you don't get much elite talent outside of the top 10 in the draft. It is absolutely possible to float along around .500 in the bad years and make a deep run when things come together.

The thing I wish people understood is re building (retooling, whatever) fails far more often than it succeeds. How many teams have announced a rebuild after just doing one a few years before and never really getting anywhere.

[scoutyjones2]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Gigantes are trying to win/compete in a division where, all but the Rox, spend $172 million+.

It's notable that the expected spend for the Rox, will be greater than the Cards.

[JuanAgosto]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Its a good comparison as far as what they are doing. But you are leaving out the fact SF plays in the same division as the Dodgers. StL doesn't. Thats a big difference.

[Talkin' Baseball]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Its a good comparison as far as what they are doing. But you are leaving out the fact SF plays in the same division as the Dodgers. StL doesn't. Thats a big difference.

Still apples to apples this year. Both teams would be competing for a wildcard spot, not a division title.

[Midrange Jay]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

I think that’s a very fair comparison. Our version probably still would stay below the luxury tax because of the smaller media market, but it’s close and realistic.

[TXCardsFanX]

I think the OP is saying that we don't need to be the Giants. They seem to be on a similar paths as the Cardinals in 23' & 24'

[Talkin' Baseball]

I think the OP is saying that we don't need to be the Giants. They seem to be on a similar paths as the Cardinals in 23' & 24'

I'm just saying, if you want to know where that road leads, just look at them. They are going to have an old roster that is over the tax. They have 2-3 good prospects and 2-3 so-so ones, the rest is bad. To top it all off, they will miss the playoffs anyway. They will be just as out of the playoffs as the Cardinals are.

[CorneliusWolfe]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Interesting topic. I have to say I admire their dedication to winning but also acknowledge it’s not sustainable year in year out. I would still like to see the Cardinals do this occasionally, once they get a good foundation built up, if they see an opportunity to fill positions of great need at the time.

Right now just about every position is of great need, so the logical thing is to stockpile. I also say it would be naive to think the prospects alone will be enough, as that is not sustainable either unless your GM can consistently predict the future.

I really don’t see why the prospect geek vs big spender debates are even a thing. What’s wrong with a GM doing the full scope of their duties? - draft and develop/trades/free agency/international markets/extensions/occasional payroll splurge…etc.

With a balanced and all encompassing approach, we wouldn’t need to tank or have some ridiculously high payroll. Somewhere around where we used to be, near the upper 3rd would suffice.

[JuanAgosto]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Its a good comparison as far as what they are doing. But you are leaving out the fact SF plays in the same division as the Dodgers. StL doesn't. Thats a big difference.

Still apples to apples this year. Both teams would be competing for a wildcard spot, not a division title.

StL could be competing for the Central if they tried.

[Talkin' Baseball]

If you hate what the Cardinals are doing, we don't have to wonder how things would have gone if we had taken the route of building to be a contender this year. We have a contemporary franchise who chose your preferred path. We can watch and see how things go for them- I think their results will be instructive as to what results we might have been able to expect. Who am I talking about? The San Francisco Giants.

Storied franchise with rich history of stars and success- Check.
Fell out of being a playoff factor- Check.
Said "Phooey" to the analytics (bleep)- Check.
Brought in franchise icon catcher to right the ship- Check.
Weren't satisfied with the 81-81 record so fired their experienced manager- Check.
Brought in a young, firebrand manager who will tell folks what for- Check.
Signed, kept, extended free agent star (Chapmen)- Check.
Signed veteran free agents (Adames, Arraez, Bader, Verlander, Mahle)- Check.
Trade from farm system for stars and take on payroll (Ray, Devers)- Check.
Push payroll over the luxury tax- Check.

Guys, this is your dream franchise. You are closet Giants fans and may not have even known it. They aren't bloviating over their minor leagues, or prospects. They aren't hung up on payroll. They go get the guy.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how this goes for them. This is as close as we will be to being able to see what would have happened to us, had we taken the other road when we were at the fork in the road.

Its a good comparison as far as what they are doing. But you are leaving out the fact SF plays in the same division as the Dodgers. StL doesn't. Thats a big difference.

Still apples to apples this year. Both teams would be competing for a wildcard spot, not a division title.

StL could be competing for the Central if they tried.

Respectfully disagree.

[imetsatchelpaige]

I don't think any of their FA's move the needle. The Giants will finish no better than third in their division and will not make the playoffs. They are stuck in neutral, just as the Cards were before this year.

And based on their approach, they may stay there longer than we do.

StL could be competing for the Central if they tried.

With respect-that is utter lunacy.
If lightning strikes, we may finish 3rd, and a single FA would not have moved that dial.
Either you buy into the rebuild or you don't. But the Bloom ship has sailed, brother-either get on board or find another team until Yadi becomes manager next year, and we return to the NLCS in 2028. The time for chest beating and what-ifs vanishes in the next month.

[TXCardsFanX]

I think the OP is saying that we don't need to be the Giants. They seem to be on a similar paths as the Cardinals in 23' & 24'

I'm just saying, if you want to know where that road leads, just look at them. They are going to have an old roster that is over the tax. They have 2-3 good prospects and 2-3 so-so ones, the rest is bad. To top it all off, they will miss the playoffs anyway. They will be just as out of the playoffs as the Cardinals are.

Agreed

[Talkin' Baseball]

How did the Giants do it when they were successful? They drafted and developed their core players like Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Madison Bumgarner, Matt Cain, Pablo Sandoval, Brandon Belt, Brandon Crawford, Ryan Vogelsong, and others. Then they filled the roster in around them. Sound familiar? The Cardinals did that too- they are returning to those roots- the Giants are not. We'll see where it leads. There are some lumps to take up front with this approach, but I think we will find that time will be good to us (these decisions will age well).