Cardinals ARB/Pre-ARB contracts on 27' books $13.5M

[rockondlouie]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

[Talkin' Baseball]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

[Carp4Cy]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

If the CBA produces a real spending floor, we are going to be far from compliance.

[Talkin' Baseball]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

If the CBA produces a real spending floor, we are going to be far from compliance.

Well, we'll just have to get ourselves into compliance won't we?

[TheFantasyStud]

This is actually super smart. DeWitt’s are smarter than many on here give them credit for. It should put the Cardinals in a great position to buy, extend and if Bloom can take advantage of the flexibility it’s that fastest way to become a powerhouse again. Got to out smart the Dodgers because you can’t outspend them.
Hat tip to the DeWitt’s!

[rockondlouie]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

I think once attendance started to slip in 2024 (and Dewitt has always claimed payroll is a huge determinant of payroll size), then really went down hill in 2025 Dewitt's new business plan was to slash as much payroll as possible ahead of the end of season 2026 expiration of the CBA in anticipation of a long fight.

Was this unwise?

The huge attendance falloff in 2025 and likely 2026 would say "Yes".

As you may know I'm in the opposite camp from you as I don't ever see the MLBPA's accepting a salary cap.

I can see them accepting a cap on deferred money while the owners agree to a salary floor minimum.

As for " BDW Jr being the sole beneficiary " I'm not sure what you mean TB?

Slashing his 2027 payroll to the bone is great................but ONLY if he's committed to then upping it back to competitive levels after the new CBA is agreed upon.

I'm not talking $200+M levels but certainly somewhere in the Top 15 of MLB.

If the plan is to stay below $100M, then (IMO) it will be a huge mistake and attendance will continue to wane.

he might as well sell if that's the plan as they will never compete for another WS title.

JMO

[45s]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

If the CBA produces a real spending floor, we are going to be far from compliance.

Well, we'll just have to get ourselves into compliance won't we?

Which leads to foolish spending…..

[Talkin' Baseball]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

I think once attendance started to slip in 2024 (and Dewitt has always claimed payroll is a huge determinant of payroll size), then really went down hill in 2025 Dewitt's new business plan was to slash as much payroll as possible ahead of the end of season 2026 expiration of the CBA in anticipation of a long fight.

Was this unwise?

The huge attendance falloff in 2025 and likely 2026 would say "Yes".

As you may know I'm in the opposite camp from you as I don't ever see the MLBPA's accepting a salary cap.

I can see them accepting a cap on deferred money while the owners agree to a salary floor minimum.

As for " BDW Jr being the sole beneficiary " I'm not sure what you mean TB?

Slashing his 2027 payroll to the bone is great................but ONLY if he's committed to then upping it back to competitive levels after the new CBA is agreed upon.

I'm not talking $200+M levels but certainly somewhere in the Top 15 of MLB.

If the plan is to stay below $100M, then (IMO) it will be a huge mistake and attendance will continue to wane.

he might as well sell if that's the plan as they will never compete for another WS title.

JMO

In your OP you related the payroll slashing to the CBA. That is indeed wise. If you want to tie it to attendance, that's a whole other conversation.

As far as other beneficiaries- if things play out in some semblance to what I put out there, every Cardinals fan will benefit from what is now an absolute minimal payroll. They would probably have to spend 60M, or so just to get up to a floor. The whole dynamic of free agency would be turned on its' head until things normalized. Vets would be interested in small and mid market teams like the Cardinals because they have the cap room to pay them.

[Talkin' Baseball]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

If the CBA produces a real spending floor, we are going to be far from compliance.

Well, we'll just have to get ourselves into compliance won't we?

Which leads to foolish spending…..

I've been on the board for awhile and I've been seeing your posts for years. It seems obvious to me that you are an intelligent guy. It's also obvious to me that you are also very knowledgeable about baseball, and Cardinals baseball. I would love to talk baseball with you. I would actually be interested in hearing your point of view on things. You have much more to offer the board than you do. I, for one, wish you would.

[rockondlouie]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Two questions: 1) Do you think this was unwise? 2) Do you think BDW Jr is the sole beneficiary of this?

While we can quibble about what a new CBA might look like, I think we can agree that one of the primary features of it will be some type of mechanism to curb spending. Maybe that's a salary cap, maybe it's just steep penalties for exceeding the tax threshold. Personally, I think the owners hold out for, and get some kind of cap.

If they get some kind of mechanism to curb spending (for this write I'm just going to refer to it as a cap), and the cap works- what are we looking at? Already for the 2026 season these teams are over the luxury tax: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Padres, Braves, Cubs, Astros, and Giants. What if these teams had payrolls that were already "capped" out and couldn't participate in free agency in any meaningful way? Or, more radically, what if they had to divest their payrolls down by a certain time? That seems like a great time to have about 40M in obligations to your arb and pre-arb guys and that's it. Doesn't that also seem like a better environment to try to extend players you already have?

Seriously, think this through, the ramifications are huge.

I think once attendance started to slip in 2024 (and Dewitt has always claimed payroll is a huge determinant of payroll size), then really went down hill in 2025 Dewitt's new business plan was to slash as much payroll as possible ahead of the end of season 2026 expiration of the CBA in anticipation of a long fight.

Was this unwise?

The huge attendance falloff in 2025 and likely 2026 would say "Yes".

As you may know I'm in the opposite camp from you as I don't ever see the MLBPA's accepting a salary cap.

I can see them accepting a cap on deferred money while the owners agree to a salary floor minimum.

As for " BDW Jr being the sole beneficiary " I'm not sure what you mean TB?

Slashing his 2027 payroll to the bone is great................but ONLY if he's committed to then upping it back to competitive levels after the new CBA is agreed upon.

I'm not talking $200+M levels but certainly somewhere in the Top 15 of MLB.

If the plan is to stay below $100M, then (IMO) it will be a huge mistake and attendance will continue to wane.

he might as well sell if that's the plan as they will never compete for another WS title.

JMO

In your OP you related the payroll slashing to the CBA. That is indeed wise. If you want to tie it to attendance, that's a whole other conversation.

As far as other beneficiaries- if things play out in some semblance to what I put out there, every Cardinals fan will benefit from what is now an absolute minimal payroll. They would probably have to spend 60M, or so just to get up to a floor. The whole dynamic of free agency would be turned on its' head until things normalized. Vets would be interested in small and mid market teams like the Cardinals because they have the cap room to pay them.

I think the two (attendance & CBA expiration) are actually related TB when it comes to BDWJr setting his payroll.

Once Dewitt saw attendance cratering he (wisely?) decided he couldn't keep payroll at it's 2024/2025 levels and he instituted a plan to slash as much payroll as he could given the dramatic decline in attendance AND the UNCERTAINTY about what the new CBA could bring.

Had actual fans in attendance in 2024/2025 been on par w/the prior two decades, then I don't think we'd be seeing this dramatic a reduction in the 2026 payroll.

So Attendance decline & CBA uncertainty (IMO) led Dewitt to slash payroll to the bone.

Again, I don't see the MLBPA ever accepting your salary cap (even though I'd be 100% for your plan).

[rockondlouie]

This is actually super smart. DeWitt’s are smarter than many on here give them credit for. It should put the Cardinals in a great position to buy, extend and if Bloom can take advantage of the flexibility it’s that fastest way to become a powerhouse again. Got to out smart the Dodgers because you can’t outspend them.
Hat tip to the DeWitt’s!

BUT

ONLY if BDWJr is committed to upping the payroll back into the Top 15 of MLB after the new CBA is in place.

What if this is his new business plan and he plans on keeping the payroll under $100M?

No way they can ever compete for another WS title at that payroll level.

The success of this move will be contingent on BDWJr committing to a Top 15 MLB payroll, without it they won't compete w/the Dodgers of the baseball world.

[Talkin' Baseball]

This is actually super smart. DeWitt’s are smarter than many on here give them credit for. It should put the Cardinals in a great position to buy, extend and if Bloom can take advantage of the flexibility it’s that fastest way to become a powerhouse again. Got to out smart the Dodgers because you can’t outspend them.
Hat tip to the DeWitt’s!

BUT

ONLY if BDWJr is committed to upping the payroll back into the Top 15 of MLB after the new CBA is in place.

What if this is his new business plan and he plans on keeping the payroll under $100M?

No way they can ever compete for another WS title at that payroll level.

The success of this move will be contingent on BDWJr committing to a Top 15 MLB payroll, without it they won't compete w/the Dodgers of the baseball world.

What if this is the new plan? You know how we'll know? We'll have to get there. For now, they have set this up well.

[rezero]

Well the silver lining is that at least ticket prices will go down accordingly.

[alw80]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Is this a bad thing?

[rockondlouie]

This is actually super smart. DeWitt’s are smarter than many on here give them credit for. It should put the Cardinals in a great position to buy, extend and if Bloom can take advantage of the flexibility it’s that fastest way to become a powerhouse again. Got to out smart the Dodgers because you can’t outspend them.
Hat tip to the DeWitt’s!

BUT

ONLY if BDWJr is committed to upping the payroll back into the Top 15 of MLB after the new CBA is in place.

What if this is his new business plan and he plans on keeping the payroll under $100M?

No way they can ever compete for another WS title at that payroll level.

The success of this move will be contingent on BDWJr committing to a Top 15 MLB payroll, without it they won't compete w/the Dodgers of the baseball world.

What if this is the new plan? You know how we'll know? We'll have to get there. For now, they have set this up well.

I don't disagree..........even though it's strange to see the Cardinals here.

[rockondlouie]

That's right.

Not counting the ARB's and Pre-ARB's the 2027 Cardinals will only have $13,500,000 on the books!

And that $13,500,000 isn't for 2027 Cardinals players, it's the money owed for NADO & WillyC trades + a potential $500K for D. May if they decline his option.

Mission accomplished BDWJr, you've stripped the payroll down to almost nothing prior to the new CBA being negotiated and then
ratified.

Is this a bad thing?

We shall see

Just odd to see the St. Louis Cardinals franchise here.