hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
How do you figure that's pushing $200 million? Explain. And to be honest, they should be a $200 million. You speak of "core" as if it's some magical entity. Those players are just as likely to turn into the next Noot, Walker, Gorman etc etc. You'd do all that losing and all that supposed building of the magical core and still have jack slllllit.
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
In 2024, Lynn and Gibson threw almost 290 innings and won 15 games for less than $25 million combined (2.7 fWAR). Who are you getting for that $25 million that improves you by six wins (is like 8 fWAR)?
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
In 2024, Lynn and Gibson threw almost 290 innings and won 15 games for less than $25 million combined (2.7 fWAR). Who are you getting for that $25 million that improves you by six wins (is like 8 fWAR)?
It's not just the wins and losses the luck in to. 5 inning pitchers put a burden on the bullpen too. That being said, they weren't terrible some of the time. But when they were bad it really hurt. They won 15 games but one pitcher could have done that and then there'd be a spot for another pitcher.
STARTING PITCHERS
Corbin Burnes (30 years old, 7.2 WAR) -- signed 6-year deal with AZ (Dec. 30)
Blake Snell (32, 7.2) -- signed 5-year deal with LAD (Nov. 30)
Yusei Kikuchi (34, 6.0) -- signed 3-year deal with LAA (Nov. 27)
Max Fried (31, 5.2) -- signed 8-year deal with NYY (Dec. 17)
Nathan Eovaldi (35, 5.1) -- signed 3-year deal with TEX (Dec. 12)
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
In 2024, Lynn and Gibson threw almost 290 innings and won 15 games for less than $25 million combined (2.7 fWAR). Who are you getting for that $25 million that improves you by six wins (is like 8 fWAR)?
It's not just the wins and losses the luck in to. 5 inning pitchers put a burden on the bullpen too. That being said, they weren't terrible some of the time. But when they were bad it really hurt. They won 15 games but one pitcher could have done that and then there'd be a spot for another pitcher.
STARTING PITCHERS
Corbin Burnes (30 years old, 7.2 WAR) -- signed 6-year deal with AZ (Dec. 30)
Blake Snell (32, 7.2) -- signed 5-year deal with LAD (Nov. 30)
Yusei Kikuchi (34, 6.0) -- signed 3-year deal with LAA (Nov. 27)
Max Fried (31, 5.2) -- signed 8-year deal with NYY (Dec. 17)
Nathan Eovaldi (35, 5.1) -- signed 3-year deal with TEX (Dec. 12)
Any one of these would have been better.
In 2024, Burnes was 3.8 fWAR, Snell was 3.1, Kikuchi was 3.6, Fried was 3.4, Eovaldi was 2.6.
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
In 2024, Lynn and Gibson threw almost 290 innings and won 15 games for less than $25 million combined (2.7 fWAR). Who are you getting for that $25 million that improves you by six wins (is like 8 fWAR)?
It's not just the wins and losses the luck in to. 5 inning pitchers put a burden on the bullpen too. That being said, they weren't terrible some of the time. But when they were bad it really hurt. They won 15 games but one pitcher could have done that and then there'd be a spot for another pitcher.
STARTING PITCHERS
Corbin Burnes (30 years old, 7.2 WAR) -- signed 6-year deal with AZ (Dec. 30)
Blake Snell (32, 7.2) -- signed 5-year deal with LAD (Nov. 30)
Yusei Kikuchi (34, 6.0) -- signed 3-year deal with LAA (Nov. 27)
Max Fried (31, 5.2) -- signed 8-year deal with NYY (Dec. 17)
Nathan Eovaldi (35, 5.1) -- signed 3-year deal with TEX (Dec. 12)
Any one of these would have been better.
In 2024, Burnes was 3.8 fWAR, Snell was 3.1, Kikuchi was 3.6, Fried was 3.4, Eovaldi was 2.6.
hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
How do you figure that's pushing $200 million? Explain. And to be honest, they should be a $200 million. You speak of "core" as if it's some magical entity. Those players are just as likely to turn into the next Noot, Walker, Gorman etc etc. You'd do all that losing and all that supposed building of the magical core and still have jack slllllit.
Youre almost there... you are right...they could turn into the next noot walker Gorman. Admitting that would be a problem is also acknowledging the current versions of those players are also problems. Which is why teaming them with aging vets is a terrible way to continue.
If they are at $80MM and could magically sign any three of those guys you mentioned, or any three top tier free agents they are at 180MM. Tucker was 60 /yr alone, right? Even if you still had gray, youre still an Ace and a bullpen away from contending with the upper tier teams.
hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
How do you figure that's pushing $200 million? Explain. And to be honest, they should be a $200 million. You speak of "core" as if it's some magical entity. Those players are just as likely to turn into the next Noot, Walker, Gorman etc etc. You'd do all that losing and all that supposed building of the magical core and still have jack slllllit.
Youre almost there... you are right...they could turn into the next noot walker Gorman. Admitting that would be a problem is also acknowledging the current versions of those players are also problems. Which is why teaming them with aging vets is a terrible way to continue.
If they are at $80MM and could magically sign any three of those guys you mentioned, or any three top tier free agents they are at 180MM. Tucker was 60 /yr alone, right? Even if you still had gray, youre still an Ace and a bullpen away from contending with the upper tier teams.
Obviously, I wouldn't be an advocate of paying one player 57 million dollars a season but the Dodgers can and did. But Kyle Tucker isn't the only fish in the sea. Regardless of what they do in a the draft it doesn't excuse gutting the team and forcing a terrible product on the field for fans to suffer through. They really expect people to pay for this schiccct?
hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
How do you figure that's pushing $200 million? Explain. And to be honest, they should be a $200 million. You speak of "core" as if it's some magical entity. Those players are just as likely to turn into the next Noot, Walker, Gorman etc etc. You'd do all that losing and all that supposed building of the magical core and still have jack slllllit.
Youre almost there... you are right...they could turn into the next noot walker Gorman. Admitting that would be a problem is also acknowledging the current versions of those players are also problems. Which is why teaming them with aging vets is a terrible way to continue.
If they are at $80MM and could magically sign any three of those guys you mentioned, or any three top tier free agents they are at 180MM. Tucker was 60 /yr alone, right? Even if you still had gray, youre still an Ace and a bullpen away from contending with the upper tier teams.
Obviously, I wouldn't be an advocate of paying one player 57 million dollars a season but the Dodgers can and did. But Kyle Tucker isn't the only fish in the sea. Regardless of what they do in a the draft it doesn't excuse gutting the team and forcing a terrible product on the field for fans to suffer through. They really expect people to pay for this schiccct?
Think we'd all like to watch meaningful baseball in October. But yes, i would rather watch young guys try to figure it out than watch the guys we got rid off finish third in a weak division.
Bloom is taking a monumental risk, trading his only proven assets for unknown performers. If he's correct, he will be the savior of the franchise; if not, they will inhabit the basement for innumerable seasons.
hofmann13 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 15:10 pm
The age of the core players jumped to the other side of the curve. Can't make band aids work when The team started November at 10,000 to one odds to make the series... you look and see payroll is mostly tied up in over age 30 corner infielders. You have no ace. You have two 3b playing elsewhere, a C that is best as a DH, and somehow still no Of that can hit for power or average and/ or stay healthy. You are also not likely to be successful outbidding large markets for top younger free agent talent.
If you can't improve your odds to below, idk, 1000 to one in 26, how does playing existing contracts or signing over 33 age players help in '27?
Unless they are to short term deals that can be flipped at the deadline... Those may be coming. A free agent has to be willing to come to terms he's not getting what he wants first.
Your funny, I'll give you that. Shohei Ohtani is 31. Aaron Judge is 33. I suppose you'd tell those guys no way. Javier Baez is 33. Freddie Freeman is 36. Manny Machado is 33. Francisco Lindor is 32. Your age limit is laughable.
You LITERALLY just provided a list of star players that signed their last deals at under age 33 and im the funny one?
You act like 33 is a death knell for a player and they should all be traded at or right before that mark. Those players that I posted? They just made the last all-star team. Yes, you're funny, but not in a fun way.
I'm acting like no such thing... look, if you are convinced Winn Gorman, Walker and Herrera are a solid enough young core to start adding a few 30MM + AAV position player contracts (or one tucker for 60mm), then go for it. But youre now pushing back to $200MM in payroll, and you still don't have 2 playoff worthy starting pitchers...
But...If you think the odds get better with a core of winn, wetherholt, mattews, baez, well then those 33 year old players you just signed to long term deals are going to be over 35 when your core is ready... and yeah that sounds awesome.
How do you figure that's pushing $200 million? Explain. And to be honest, they should be a $200 million. You speak of "core" as if it's some magical entity. Those players are just as likely to turn into the next Noot, Walker, Gorman etc etc. You'd do all that losing and all that supposed building of the magical core and still have jack slllllit.
Youre almost there... you are right...they could turn into the next noot walker Gorman. Admitting that would be a problem is also acknowledging the current versions of those players are also problems. Which is why teaming them with aging vets is a terrible way to continue.
If they are at $80MM and could magically sign any three of those guys you mentioned, or any three top tier free agents they are at 180MM. Tucker was 60 /yr alone, right? Even if you still had gray, youre still an Ace and a bullpen away from contending with the upper tier teams.
Obviously, I wouldn't be an advocate of paying one player 57 million dollars a season but the Dodgers can and did. But Kyle Tucker isn't the only fish in the sea. Regardless of what they do in a the draft it doesn't excuse gutting the team and forcing a terrible product on the field for fans to suffer through. They really expect people to pay for this schiccct?
Think we'd all like to watch meaningful baseball in October. But yes, i would rather watch young guys try to figure it out than watch the guys we got rid off finish third in a weak division.
That's your opinion. Didn't the 3rd place team in the Central make the playoffs last year?
skeezix wrote: ↑03 Feb 2026 19:49 pm
Bloom is taking a monumental risk, trading his only proven assets for unknown performers. If he's correct, he will be the savior of the franchise; if not, they will inhabit the basement for innumerable seasons.
Everyone you sign to a guaranteed contract is also a risk. The Cardinals signing Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. to extensions when they were past age 30 were risks. The Angels signing Rendon, Pujols, etc. were risks. Etc., etc., etc.
Even guys who you think are the "least risky" right now - guys who you think are most likely to repeat what they did in 2025 in 2026 - when you have to give them 4, 5, 6, etc. year contracts just to have them in 2026, they become substantial "risks" when you get to the end of that guaranteed commitment.
skeezix wrote: ↑03 Feb 2026 19:49 pm
Bloom is taking a monumental risk, trading his only proven assets for unknown performers. If he's correct, he will be the savior of the franchise; if not, they will inhabit the basement for innumerable seasons.
How many "proven asset" pitchers were signed to huge free agent deals and ended up taking a big (bleep), getting hurt, etc? There are so many names that come to mind that people wanted to sign and the contract ended up badly.
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
How do you reconcile "willfully destroying the...value" of the team and preparing to sell?
How does that make any sense?
More likely - they recognize that what they have been doing for about the last decade has led them into a dead end. That strategic approach - try to be just good enough to make the playoffs most years and hope for the best - gets them no farther in modern, 2026 baseball than high level mediocrity.
So now they are trying something different - a willingness to take a bigger step back for 1, 2, 3 years to rebuild the organization in order to provide the foundation to be better than high level mediocrity further into the future.
I mean this whole situation isn’t something that just same out of of the blue. It’s been obvious for sometime and they only now are making changes now that Mo walked out the door, by his own choice.
Dewitt chose not to make the changes and just let Mo do whatever he wanted.
No matter what the reasoning behind that was, it’s willfully destroying the franchise
I have said repeatedly that they should have started tearing the whole thing down at the 2023 trade deadline. So you won't get any argument from me that the last two seasons have been, mostly, just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness.
So you think that the Cards who made the playoffs in 2022 should have gutted the team? That's not the way to win a championship.
In July 2023, the Cardinals were 10+ games under .500, with aging veterans (Goldschmidt 35, Arenado 32, Mikolas 34) who were declining but might have had value to some contender that season. They should have been more committed to finding someplace for them to go where they would waive their NTCs.
Instead they doubled down on aging players by adding Gray, Gibson, and Lynn after 2023 and going on to win a whopping 83 and 78 games the past two seasons.
If they had added a quality pitcher instead of Gibson and Lynn, and made an effort to upgrade the offense a little they would have made the playoffs and then who knows. But they made the active decision to play Mikolas (contract) and compound it by lesser talents Gibson, Lynn and later on Fedde. If you go with lesser talents you typically get lesser results. Your way of tanking has led to what in baseball? You can point to Houston (cheaters) and Chicago (basically down to the last play in the world series) as your beacons. Tanking only guarantees losing, and losing big.
They were about six games out of sneaking into the last wild card each year, and in 2024 that was with Gibson and Lynn. So, no, they weren't particularly close to anything.
I say they were. Get a top pitcher instead of wasting that money on Lynn, Gibson and Fedde. Nearly any pitcher out there could do what those guys did for less money. Just getting Mikolas out of the line up was a plus. A plus pitcher and maybe an average pitcher would get you the playoffs.
In 2024, Lynn and Gibson threw almost 290 innings and won 15 games for less than $25 million combined (2.7 fWAR). Who are you getting for that $25 million that improves you by six wins (is like 8 fWAR)?
It's not just the wins and losses the luck in to. 5 inning pitchers put a burden on the bullpen too. That being said, they weren't terrible some of the time. But when they were bad it really hurt. They won 15 games but one pitcher could have done that and then there'd be a spot for another pitcher.
STARTING PITCHERS
Corbin Burnes (30 years old, 7.2 WAR) -- signed 6-year deal with AZ (Dec. 30)
Blake Snell (32, 7.2) -- signed 5-year deal with LAD (Nov. 30)
Yusei Kikuchi (34, 6.0) -- signed 3-year deal with LAA (Nov. 27)
Max Fried (31, 5.2) -- signed 8-year deal with NYY (Dec. 17)
Nathan Eovaldi (35, 5.1) -- signed 3-year deal with TEX (Dec. 12)
Any one of these would have been better.
In 2024, Burnes was 3.8 fWAR, Snell was 3.1, Kikuchi was 3.6, Fried was 3.4, Eovaldi was 2.6.
And just this past season both Burnes and Snell made 11 starts each, Eovaldi made 22 starts, and Kikuchi gave up the most hits in the league.
CCard wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 08:39 am
The moves being made to shed talent (and salary) can only lead to one conclusion. Losing is the objective. They don't care about the fans suffering or making the Cards the laughing stock of the league. They're willfully destroying the franchise and its value. Is it in preparation to sell the team? Or is it due to the CBA? Or both? In two decades they haven't acted this way. They've always played the "Let's look for a deal" game, but they did spend some. Enough to be at least average or better. This is something different. They may have changed some bells and whistles in the minor leagues. Maybe added some coaches and made some tweaks to regimen. But they're essentially the same system they were for two decades minus the professional talent they traded away. The team that not that long ago was considered to be the best run organization in MLB is now in free fall. How low can they go? Apparently we're going to find out. Some of you on here grinning from ear to ear and salivating at the imminent prospect of losing big, I just don't get.
Mo already made the Cardinals the laughing stock of the league.
