If Wetherholt and Doyle don't pan out--Then what? Where do we go from here?

[Bully4you]

I fully expect bulldog to chime in on this one with some lyrics!!
But seriously, if neither of these guys turn into the 4-5 WAR players we expect
then what is the plan?
Longer, continuous rebuild until they find a nice threesome to play with.
If neither of these guys make it, then this will become the longest drought in Cardinal history.
I'm not saying they won't make it, because I am high on JJ at least.
However, there is a really good chance they don't make it.
If that happens, the farm system was overrated and org has nothing to fall back on.
Because they refuse to spend at market levels.
What they desperately need is a salary cap and revenue sharing.
At this current pace, farm system is the only vehicle to prosperity.

[Mort Gage]

Finally beat Sikeston to it:

And where do we go from here?
Which is a way that's clear?

Still looking for that blue jean baby queen
Prettiest girl I ever seen
See her shake on the movie screen
Jimmy Dean (James Dean)

Or

Where do we go from here
Now that all other children are growin' up?
And how do we spend our lives
If there's no one to lend us a hand?

[mattmitchl44]

If that happens, the farm system was overrated and org has nothing to fall back on.
Because they refuse to spend at market levels.

What they desperately need is a salary cap and revenue sharing.
At this current pace, farm system is the only vehicle to prosperity.

If they don't develop the necessary core of young, cost controlled talent, spending "at market levels" given the payroll they can likely support doesn't get them to better than a high level of mediocrity anyway.

Developing a critical mass of young, cost controlled talent isn't ONE way for the Cardinals to go about competing, it is the ONLY way. So if Wetherholt and Doyle don't pan out you continue acquiring and developing prospects until you have ones that do - because you have to.

[WeeVikes]

Finally beat Sikeston to it:

And where do we go from here?
Which is a way that's clear?

Still looking for that blue jean baby queen
Prettiest girl I ever seen
See her shake on the movie screen
Jimmy Dean (James Dean)

Or

Where do we go from here
Now that all other children are growin' up?
And how do we spend our lives
If there's no one to lend us a hand?

Crushed it!

[Jatalk]

Based on where we are and what we’ve seen you would have to say your scenario would set the organization back significantly. Right now it looks like total dependence on youth development.

I don’t think they will both fail. I do think many on CT have set initial expectations too high.

I am hoping that the organization has a second phase to the rebuild. This phase would include increasing payroll and adding some veterans to a youth filled line up. I may be dreaming.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

It would suck if Doyle busts, but I think Wetherholt is the bigger blow. We’ve got some depth pitching wise at this point, but we don’t have a hitter close to Wetherholt, and we really need a hitter. Baez, may be close, and Rodriguez is still a few years out.

That said, I think it sets us back in the more immediate future if Wetherholt busts out, but that is why we are building a great farm system that can make up for it when young prospects bust out. I’m hoping we’re at the point, or at least close to it, where Wetherholt busting out doesn’t set your franchise back years, like what happened with the Tavares tragedy. Because no matter how good your farm system is, you’re going to have busts. You just can’t let it kill you

[ramfandan]

Based on where we are and what we’ve seen you would have to say your scenario would set the organization back significantly. Right now it looks like total dependence on youth development.

I don’t think they will both fail. I do think many on CT have set initial expectations too high.

I am hoping that the organization has a second phase to the rebuild. This phase would include increasing payroll and adding some veterans to a youth filled line up. I may be dreaming.

Could you please detail the 'many on CT that have set initial expectations too high' on Wetherholt . Please give specific examples on what was posted that you deemed 'too high' . Thanks Jatalk

[mattmitchl44]

It would suck if Doyle busts, but I think Wetherholt is the bigger blow. We’ve got some depth pitching wise at this point, but we don’t have a hitter close to Wetherholt, and we really need a hitter. Baez, may be close, and Rodriguez is still a few years out.

I probably feel a bit the opposite.

I feel like the gap between Doyle and everybody else in terms of potential to become a front-of-rotation SP is probably larger than the gap between Wetherholt and R. Rodriguez, Baez, etc. in being able to become an All-Star level position player.

[RunSup]

Finally beat Sikeston to it:

And where do we go from here?
Which is a way that's clear?

Still looking for that blue jean baby queen
Prettiest girl I ever seen
See her shake on the movie screen
Jimmy Dean (James Dean)

Or

Where do we go from here
Now that all other children are growin' up?
And how do we spend our lives
If there's no one to lend us a hand?

Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go?
Mm-mm, oh, where do we go? (Where do we go now?)
Oh, where do we go now? (Where do we go?)
Where do we go? (Sweet child of mine)
Mm, oh, where do we go now?
Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye
(Where do we go? Where do we go?)
Ooh, where do we go now? (Where do we go?)
Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh, oh, woah

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Unwatchable baseball?

[rockondlouie]

Lotta pressure on these kids coming up (JJW, Doyle, R.R. etal).

The god this is this generation seems to not be phased by "The Show" and aren't as intimidated.

The more I read about JJ, the more I think he's going to have no issues just like M. Winn who wasn't awed by the bright lights either.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Finally beat Sikeston to it:

And where do we go from here?
Which is a way that's clear?

Still looking for that blue jean baby queen
Prettiest girl I ever seen
See her shake on the movie screen
Jimmy Dean (James Dean)

Or

Where do we go from here
Now that all other children are growin' up?
And how do we spend our lives
If there's no one to lend us a hand?

Superb correlation. The second one was my entry. You beat me. Alan Parsons I think: good work sir.

[ramfandan]

Lotta pressure on these kids coming up (JJW, Doyle, R.R. etal).

The god this is this generation seems to not be phased by "The Show" and aren't as intimidated.

The more I read about JJ, the more I think he's going to have no issues just like M. Winn who wasn't awed by the bright lights either.

Yes, you are correct that JJ is not going to let the hype deter him . Here is why :
St. Louis Cardinals top prospect JJ Wetherholt is widely praised for having the "intangibles"—specifically, an elite work ethic, high-level baseball IQ, and a humble, grounded personality. Beyond his physical tools, these traits include strong mental toughness, a professional approach to the game, and a desire to make the most of his opportunities, which coaches and scouts highlight as elevating his already high-level talent.

It is the above that have baseball people excited about JJ... the 'intangibles' He is very focused and humble type personality . He has handled all the notiriety well since college, being highly drafted, in the minors , and his intangibles impressed the Cardinals brass at last year's ST invite.

Below are more details to his intangibles :

Work Ethic & Mindset: Described as humble and highly motivated, focusing on proving his value to those who believe in him rather than solely on doubters.

High Baseball IQ: Demonstrates advanced in-game decision-making, including excellent swing decisions, pitch recognition, and ability to manipulate the barrel.

Leadership & Poise: Recognized for having "all the necessary intangibles" to succeed at the Major League level, with a high floor due to his maturity and approach to the game.

Versatility: Capable of handling positions at 2B and 3B, adjusting to new roles to maximize team value.

Wetherholt is considered a potential 2026 Opening Day roster candidate for the Cardinals, boasting a high-level hit tool combined with these professional-grade mental attributes.

[Jatalk]

Based on where we are and what we’ve seen you would have to say your scenario would set the organization back significantly. Right now it looks like total dependence on youth development.

I don’t think they will both fail. I do think many on CT have set initial expectations too high.

I am hoping that the organization has a second phase to the rebuild. This phase would include increasing payroll and adding some veterans to a youth filled line up. I may be dreaming.

Could you please detail the 'many on CT that have set initial expectations too high' on Wetherholt . Please give specific examples on what was posted that you deemed 'too high' . Thanks Jatalk

I really don’t won’t to spend the time highlighting examples. But surely you have seen them. Let me generalize a couple of things:

1. Many assume he is in the opening day line up. He has not faced one MLB pitcher and his defensive position is not set in stone. I think he will be there but am not going to be surprised if he starts in AAA.

2. Secondly look at history. Carlson, Walker , Gorman, etc. all supposedly had the talent and intangibles many speak to on this board for JJ. Yet here we go again with JJ with the accolades.

3. Look at the number of posts on CT featuring JJ. It is numerous and 99.99% are counting big on him.

I think he is a great player. I think he will be great. But I’m giving him time.

Doyle is very similar. Many have him in the rotation and some by year end. Some experts think he is a piece for the pen due to mechanics. We will see.

[The Nard]

If the 2026 rebuild doesn’t look favorable or bears fruit, then you start the rebuild again in 2027. That’s the problem with this mode. It isn’t ensured to work out in the end.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUsRGuZb6k

[Melville]

"If Wetherholt and Doyle don't pan out--Then what? Where do we go from here?"
Same as every team.
"IF"
That conjunction applies to every prospect with every organization.
There are no sure things.
Therefore, if one prospect does not work out, a team simply moves on to the next one.
Which is why Bloom is focused on depth right now.
The more "Cards" he has in the deck, the greater the chance of having an ace in there somewhere.