Biggest Swing and Miss of the Offseason So Far

[Talkin' Baseball]

Some of you have already had disappointments with Bloom & Co. Some are unhappy that he retained Marmol as manager. Some of you are upset that he traded the veterans and reduced payroll. For me, his biggest swing and miss so far is failing to deal with the clunky roster in any meaningful way this winter.

Part of the point of taking a year to transition the front office the way they did was so that the incoming POBO would be familiar with the organization and could hit the ground running. In a lot of ways they have made phenomenal progress, but I am stunned that they have done virtually nothing about the clunky roster construction.

Catchers- We have 5 catchers on the 40 man roster with more in the pipeline. You can argue about which one needs to go- but that at least one needs to go, seems plain.

Middle infield- Donovan, Wetherholt, Winn, Saggese, Fermin, Torres, and Prieto are all on the 40 man roster with more in the pipeline. This goes beyond depth- there are more players here than can be responsibly deployed.

Left-handed hitters- We’ve gone through the last few seasons too left-handed. We know this. Nothing is being done to address this. Arenado and Contreras were traded- removing two of the RH bats we did have. The new additions this year (Wetherholt and Crooks) are both left-handed. You can debate who should be moved- but there should have been some move to address the clunky roster here.

Left-handed pitchers in the system- This is tricky because they aren’t fully formed, and you don’t know for sure who will pan out and who won’t, but there are more left-handed starting pitchers in the minors than can be deployed to the major league roster. This too, makes a roster clunky.

I have no one player that I am unhappy with not trading, but I am disappointed not to see anything done to streamline the roster into something that fits together better.

[Jatalk]

Some of you have already had disappointments with Bloom & Co. Some are unhappy that he retained Marmol as manager. Some of you are upset that he traded the veterans and reduced payroll. For me, his biggest swing and miss so far is failing to deal with the clunky roster in any meaningful way this winter.

Part of the point of taking a year to transition the front office the way they did was so that the incoming POBO would be familiar with the organization and could hit the ground running. In a lot of ways they have made phenomenal progress, but I am stunned that they have done virtually nothing about the clunky roster construction.

Catchers- We have 5 catchers on the 40 man roster with more in the pipeline. You can argue about which one needs to go- but that at least one needs to go, seems plain.

Middle infield- Donovan, Wetherholt, Winn, Saggese, Fermin, Torres, and Prieto are all on the 40 man roster with more in the pipeline. This goes beyond depth- there are more players here than can be responsibly deployed.

Left-handed hitters- We’ve gone through the last few seasons too left-handed. We know this. Nothing is being done to address this. Arenado and Contreras were traded- removing two of the RH bats we did have. The new additions this year (Wetherholt and Crooks) are both left-handed. You can debate who should be moved- but there should have been some move to address the clunky roster here.

Left-handed pitchers in the system- This is tricky because they aren’t fully formed, and you don’t know for sure who will pan out and who won’t, but there are more left-handed starting pitchers in the minors than can be deployed to the major league roster. This too, makes a roster clunky.

I have no one player that I am unhappy with not trading, but I am disappointed not to see anything done to streamline the roster into something that fits together better.

You are 100% correct in your disappointment. To me this rebuild is going to take 5 + years at this rate. I was hoping for 2 to 3 years.

[ScotchMIrish]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

That seems to be the stance of the team as well. I disagree.

[ggnoobs]

I wanted to see more moves, like trading away Donovan, JoJo and possibly Noot.

I wanted to see at least 1 or 2 elite level hitting prospects added to the org.

That said, I do like the moves that have happened.

It does seem as if they're holding onto a few guys in an attempt to be good enough for the final wild card spot. I actually agree with a few others who have said they think the team as currently constructed can win at least as many as last years team.

[Ozziesfan41]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

+1 once upon a time the cardinals thought they had a surplus of outfielders and traded arorzorena and turns out they traded the wrong one. If they trade crooks he could go on have a good career Bernal flames out and Rodriguez doesn’t stick at catcher then the ones saying too much catching depth will be complaining what a great catcher they traded look what they are stuck with now.

[scoutyjones2]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

How does it change whether Ivan catches or not? So many catchers regardless, and Ivans bat will find its way into the lineup

[Talkin' Baseball]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

+1 once upon a time the cardinals thought they had a surplus of outfielders and traded arorzorena and turns out they traded the wrong one. If they trade crooks he could go on have a good career Bernal flames out and Rodriguez doesn’t stick at catcher then the ones saying too much catching depth will be complaining what a great catcher they traded look what they are stuck with now.

You can't stop operating because you made a mistake in the past, or might make one in the future. Let's clear this up- you will make mistakes going forward. Hopefully not the same ones over and over. One big plus, these guys are better at talent evaluation than the old guard.

[scoutyjones2]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

+1 once upon a time the cardinals thought they had a surplus of outfielders and traded arorzorena and turns out they traded the wrong one. If they trade crooks he could go on have a good career Bernal flames out and Rodriguez doesn’t stick at catcher then the ones saying too much catching depth will be complaining what a great catcher they traded look what they are stuck with now.

You can't stop operating because you made a mistake in the past, or might make one in the future. Let's clear this up- you will make mistakes going forward. Hopefully not the same ones over and over. One big plus, these guys are better at talent evaluation than the old guard.

Remains to be seen

[ScotchMIrish]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

How does it change whether Ivan catches or not? So many catchers regardless, and Ivans bat will find its way into the lineup

I'd be reluctant to move him behind the plate because the grind of catching will likely reduce his offense but if he can catch then that blocks the position. With him at DH the catcher job is open.

[Ozziesfan41]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

+1 once upon a time the cardinals thought they had a surplus of outfielders and traded arorzorena and turns out they traded the wrong one. If they trade crooks he could go on have a good career Bernal flames out and Rodriguez doesn’t stick at catcher then the ones saying too much catching depth will be complaining what a great catcher they traded look what they are stuck with now.

You can't stop operating because you made a mistake in the past, or might make one in the future. Let's clear this up- you will make mistakes going forward. Hopefully not the same ones over and over. One big plus, these guys are better at talent evaluation than the old guard.

The catching depth isn’t as deep as people think it is. Herrera isn’t going to stick at catcher pages is a back up catcher pozo of course is a break glass in case of emergency call up Rodriguez is a few years away and some scouts don’t think he will stick at catcher so really it’s only Bernal and crooks. Now if they trade pages that’s fine but as for crooks and Bernal I think it would be a bad idea to trade one to go all in on the other even great talent evaluators make mistakes

[Cardinals4Life]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

How does it change whether Ivan catches or not? So many catchers regardless, and Ivans bat will find its way into the lineup

Well if he doesn’t catch, then Crooks and Pages are your 2 MLB guys, with Pozo on hand as an emergency (injury) in Memphis. Bernal becomes the primary AAA catcher.

If he does stick, then they have to decide who becomes the backup/#2 C. Pages or Crooks? In this scenario, then one of them become a surplus.

So whether Ivan can be the primary C does determine where the rest of C's shake out or what role they have.

[scoutyjones2]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

How does it change whether Ivan catches or not? So many catchers regardless, and Ivans bat will find its way into the lineup

Well if he doesn’t catch, then Crooks and Pages are your 2 MLB guys, with Pozo on hand as an emergency (injury) in Memphis. Bernal becomes the primary AAA catcher.

If he does stick, then they have to decide who becomes the backup/#2 C. Pages or Crooks? In this scenario, then one of them become a surplus.

So whether Ivan can be the primary C does determine where the rest of C's shake out or what role they have.

I don't see the problem. Doesn't change a thing going into the season.

[imyourhuckleberry]

However, Bloom wasn't dealing during the transition year. So, he's only been the final decision-maker on all roster decisions, top to bottom, for a few months, it stands to reason the clunky roster situation hasn't been resolved. There are also holes in the development pipeline where we've got guys in MLB, then a hole, then guys not yet ready.

Take the five catchers, for example:
#1 Herrera: the projected starter, and possibly the best hitter in the team. We can argue he shouldn't be catching at all, but that is moot. They're gonna give it a go.

#2 Pagés: the established back-up. Will he be with the team for long, probably not but they're not going to turn the position over to the...

#3 Pozo: the next in line. He's just an emergency guy who goes away when when #4 is ready

#4 Crooks: small sample size. They obviously want him playing everyday in the minors until they feel he's ready. Not anyone who can headline a trade at this point in his career. Could be a trade sweetener, though or could be slated to move up to #2 quickly if he performs and is needed.

#5 Bernal: not MLB ready yet, but could be (probably is) the most talented catcher of the bunch. You don't just throw him in on a trade unless that trade is a big one but he isn't ready for the show yet, either. Patience is needed here.

If Crooks had another good year under his mask going into this season, it would be easy and needed to thin out the pipeline a little, but apparently they think he isn't quite ready. Maybe ST changes that outlook, probably not though and he'll play everyday in the minors to get there.

This catcher situation resolves itself over the next season. Herrera either improves and becomes the everyday catcher for years, which allows them re-shuffle what 2-5 looks like. Or he flames out as catcher and is moved to DH/LF. Everyone moves up. At least one of Pagés or Pozo are gone, the other is sharing time with Crooks while Bernal is on the way. Meanwhile Rodriguez begins to move into the picture.

The minors are improving quickly but still has holes. Those holes limit what they can or can't (will or won't) do going up the chain. Such is the mess leftover from the previous regime.

[rockondlouie]

I'm not the least bit disappointed

Anyone who thought we'd get some haul of MLB Top 100 prospects for the likes of S. Gray, Willy and NADO, when all three were nothing more than salary dumps, doesn't understand baseball.

C. Bloom has done as well as can be expected w/those three trades, even adding some players who will see action on the Cardinals in 2026 as well as some real upside, lotto ticket prospects.

And as far as Oli, bringing him back was a BDWJr move and not a Bloom move.

When your goal is to CUT as much payroll as possible before the CBA negotiations there was NO WAY Dewitt was going to pay Oli to sit on his a z z AND allow Bloom to hire his Manager before the new CBA is in place.

I also like Bloom holding steadfast on Donny until he gets his asking price.

There's no rush to deal him just to "make a deal".

Worse case is we have Donny to start the season and then you see what type of offers you can get midseason..........

......wash, rinse, repeat again next offseason (if there is an offseason) or just sign him to a new deal and keep him.

JMO

[Cardinals4Life]

Regarding catchers I wouldn't trade anybody until things shake out. We don't know if Herrera can catch and we don't know which of the prospects will develop into MLB players. I'd stand pat and let it play out.

How does it change whether Ivan catches or not? So many catchers regardless, and Ivans bat will find its way into the lineup

Well if he doesn’t catch, then Crooks and Pages are your 2 MLB guys, with Pozo on hand as an emergency (injury) in Memphis. Bernal becomes the primary AAA catcher.

If he does stick, then they have to decide who becomes the backup/#2 C. Pages or Crooks? In this scenario, then one of them become a surplus.

So whether Ivan can be the primary C does determine where the rest of C's shake out or what role they have.

I don't see the problem. Doesn't change a thing going into the season.

Well I doubt we want to carry 3 catchers on the 26 man roster. So if Herrera sticks as catcher then one of Crooks/Pages will need to go. Bernal is ready for Memphis. So unless you want to start Bernal back in Springfield and Crooks in Memphis, it certainly matters.