My problem with Mason Winn

[Ozziesfan41]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria is not a Superstar. Perineal all star or HOf consideration. He was a VG SS. That’s what Winn is. Same caliber. Not a “best player on team cantidate. Renteria was the 5th best player on the roster

It’s really weird your problem with winn is he isn’t a HOF or superstar if that is your measure for a player you must have a problem with 99% of baseball players. He’s a gold glove shortstop who will hit 15-20 horn runs that’s pretty good

Fine. Don’t sell him as a best player then. Sell him as a role player. Not a face of franchise

Who is selling him as that? As far as I have seen everyone is pretty much selling JJ as the face of the franchise and he hasn’t played a game in the majors yet. All I’ve seen them selling Winn as is a gold glove short stop which he is

A lot of Cards talk selling Winn as that and a superstar. I am just trying to say he is a nice VG role player. This team need 3 elite superstars.

lol a lot of cards talk are also selling Brendan Donovan as some great player who you can build a team around also. But I haven’t read anyone on here say Winn is a super star once never read it. And course the team could use superstars lol

[Youboughtit]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

[craviduce]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

[Ozziesfan41]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

+1 team has problems Winn isn’t even on the list

[Cusecards]

So.....the OP’s “point” is that Masyn Winn is NOT a superstar on offense???
Of all of the potential talking points for this team THAT is your problem/focus??????
SMH

[Youboughtit]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

Leauge worst offense. Where are the upgrades? I am tired of seeing him listed as part of some core. If he is more than a nice role player then the team has a big problem. Renteria was the teams 5-6 best player. Thats where Winn belongs

[Youboughtit]

So.....the OP’s “point” is that Masyn Winn is NOT a superstar on offense???
Of all of the potential talking points for this team THAT is your problem/focus??????
SMH

Someone has to be. Name one.

[Cusecards]

So.....the OP’s “point” is that Masyn Winn is NOT a superstar on offense???
Of all of the potential talking points for this team THAT is your problem/focus??????
SMH

Someone has to be. Name one.

Someone has to be what???????

[craviduce]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

Leauge worst offense. Where are the upgrades? I am tired of seeing him listed as part of some core. If he is more than a nice role player then the team has a big problem. Renteria was the teams 5-6 best player. Thats where Winn belongs

you can be tired of it. No one is telling you not to. Please, die on that hill. All everyone is saying is that he's not the problem you fix "first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, etc".

Or you're just attacking the one positive thing with the team to try and rile up Cards Talk? That's probably it, right?

You have to do better than that. I'm not mad.

[Cusecards]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

+1 team has problems Winn isn’t even on the list

+1000
SMH......dumb thread!

[CCard]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

LOL...Winn is a top 10 shortstop right now. He does all of those things well and his defense is excellent. I can't disagree with you more.

[NYCardsFan]

Some interesting context: In 1987 (the year Cranny chose for Ozzie Smith), MLB shortstops had a wRC+ of 80 (in other words, they were 20% below league average offensively). In 2025, shortstops had a wRC+ of 98 (basically, league average). In 2024, it was 100. The game has changed. The bar for offensive production from the SS position has gone up considerably.

That said, I like Winn and think he’ll improve his OBP (and therefore his wRC+) over time. If he can even be just a slightly above average hitter, he’ll be very valuable.

[CCard]

As we all know there are 5 tools in baseball. Mason Winn will never be a top 10 SS because of his skill set is backwards. How I see his tools ranked 1-5 vs the superstar SS

Winn
Defense
Arm strength
Run
Hit for average
Hit for power

Top 5 SS tools (Henderson, Witt Jr, Lindor, Cruz, Seager)
Hit for Power
Hit for average
Run
Defense
Arm strength

Furthermore although he is a decent player it only works if there are 3-4 legit power bats to compensate.

The year before Ozzie Smith came over from the Cardinals, he slashed .222.294/.256/.549 with the Padres.
In his 6th year with the Cardinals, he slashed .303/.392/.383/.775. He was an All Star for 15 years and is in the
HOF. The most home runs he ever hit in any one year was 6.

I'm not comparing Masyn with Ozzie, but I'd much rather have a GG shortstop than worrying about OPS. Let's look for
that from the corner infielders and corner outfielders. And be as strong defensively as possible up the middle.

SS was not a power position in the 80s. It is now. To be a potential HOF or all star SS (superstar) it will require 25-30HR.

Baloney.

Give me a example of a light hitting SS since 2000?

Edgar renteria never hit 20 home runs the most he hit was 16 that’s one more than Winn hit in 2024

Renteria nowhere near a HoF or superstar caliber.


Jeter will be the lightest hitting SS to get in from last 25 years.

BA .310
HR 260
RBI 1311
OPS .817

The average of top 5 SS last year were

BA .289
HR 26
RBI 89
OPS .839


To be a future superstar at SS he will need a 5-8 year prime with those type of numbers.

I have Barry Larkin's 198 HR on the line, he'd like a word.

Once again 86-04 is not a new generation of SS. It is a power MOTO position now. Winn was SS18 offensively. Larkin was top 5 with those numbers. Yea is Winn was in the 80s or 90s he would be a superstar. Not today. He’s just VG

He doesn't need to hit like a superstar. He anchors the defense up the middle in the infield. If he hits .260, you have a winner. Get your offense elsewhere....like 3B, 2B, 1B, RF, LF...... CF and SS should be the best defensively...anything they offer offensively is a bonus.

The problem doesn't involve Masyn Winn.

LOL...Ozzie Smith and David Eckstein would like a word with the OP.

[LCA1951]

You are correct. It is your problem.

[riff raff]

You are correct. It is your problem.

Most definitely

[Hoosier59]

Masyn has realized he can’t hunt homers, good sign of maturity on his part. He will still hit 15-20 of them, but with an average around .280. Every time he has hunted homers, his batting average has really suffered. He now knows that if he just uses the whole field, occasionally pitchers will try to come inside on him and that’s when he’ll make them pay! I expect him to have a good year in ‘26. Hopefully his knee gives him no more trouble.