Mails shouldn’t be in the NHL right now

[theograce]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

Why does someone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL mean they have a bias or an agenda? The numbers are really bad - both the standard stats and the advanced metrics. There are tons of players that have been great AHL players that are unable to play in the NHL.

I don't think it's fair to just discount people who don't like what they see in him / don't like the trade as "biased". The objective stats support those with what you call an agenda.

Mailloux may end up being OK, but saying he has been any kind of positive contributor this year means you have to look past almost every stat and metric and rely solely on the subjective eye test and circumstantial evidence.

He’s not hockey smart. He writes novels to overcompensate. An organization said he wasn’t ready last year either

[Jeff Goldblum]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

Why does someone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL mean they have a bias or an agenda? The numbers are really bad - both the standard stats and the advanced metrics. There are tons of players that have been great AHL players that are unable to play in the NHL.

I don't think it's fair to just discount people who don't like what they see in him / don't like the trade as "biased". The objective stats support those with what you call an agenda.

Mailloux may end up being OK, but saying he has been any kind of positive contributor this year means you have to look past almost every stat and metric and rely solely on the subjective eye test and circumstantial evidence.

Why does someone saying he should be in the NHL have a bias or agenda?

[Harry S Deals]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

Why does someone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL mean they have a bias or an agenda? The numbers are really bad - both the standard stats and the advanced metrics. There are tons of players that have been great AHL players that are unable to play in the NHL.

I don't think it's fair to just discount people who don't like what they see in him / don't like the trade as "biased". The objective stats support those with what you call an agenda.

Mailloux may end up being OK, but saying he has been any kind of positive contributor this year means you have to look past almost every stat and metric and rely solely on the subjective eye test and circumstantial evidence.

Why does someone saying he should be in the NHL have a bias or agenda?

Its agenda-adjacent for sure but again it doesnt matter. With or without Bolduc the Blues would be in the same position the upside is given more NHL experience Mailloux will be a more valuable asset than Bolduc. Mailloux isnt going to learn anything more in the AHL he already dominated that league the needs NHL reps. If for instance Ryan Suter was still here Mailloux would probably look a little better.

[Ziggy3]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

I 100% agree with everything re: them not setting him up well and failing to have a solid veteran to play with him. But come on man, I don't have any "agenda." I just watch the games. The guy got sent back to the AHL from THIS team. And it was deserved. And since, yes he has progressed...from disaster to borderline NHLer. And hopefully it continues; I mean yeah, let him play now, it's the bed we made. But he does not sniff the lineup on a good number of teams in this league right now.

[Bubble4427]

The Blues personnel that told us that Mailloux was ready when we traded for him should not be in the NHL.

Mailloux was not nearly an unknown to the hockey world. Even most Montreal fans could tell that he wasnt ready. Now most Blues fans say the same thing.

Congrats Blues fans. You know more than Army.

That’s why I don’t believe the story we were told on why they made the move. Our scouts don’t miss this bad. Something happened with Bolduc and they wanted him gone at all costs.

I mean, it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, but I can't dismiss it.

How do you trade a rising young forward with size who essentially scored 20 last year for...THIS? And then you anoint him a starter before training camp begins, with the bright idea of pairing him with Tucker out of the gate...just putting the guy in pretty much the worst situation for him. Their scouting really thought he would flourish in those circumstances?

It's got to be the most baffling offseason move Army has ever made. The entire hockey world was scratching their heads over it. And even if something had gone completely sour with Bolduc somehow, how in the world is Mailloux the best return you can find? Not even a pick thrown our way too?

Well because as has been rehashed over and over and over again

Blues will be extending Holloway, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Snuggerug and Neighbours again the Blues did not want to extend Bolduc who they feel is a 3rd liner which they have
Blues have an organizational weakness at RHD which is a commodity in the NHL
Fairly simple

No I get that, and that's not even my point. I said at the time that I understood the idea, and they were trading from obvious strength (wingers) to address a weakness, and I knew nothing about Mailloux's game. I reserved judgment until I saw him play. But can you look now and say that's anywhere close to an even trade?

To me, the jury is way out on whether Mailloux will ever become the equivalent of what Bolduc already is...2nd pair D vs. middle 6 fwd. He might, I really hope he does...but was that risk worth it? Bolduc is RFA after THIS season, yeah? Why did he have to move already? Why was the trade straight-up? A 20-ish goal scorer of the same age for a guy arguably not even ready for the NHL full-time?

There's just something very peculiar about the whole deal.

You put entirely too much value on Bolduc.
Did you think Bolduc could actually fetch a top 4 NHL ready defenseman?

Not necessarily, but I kind of thought they'd get a guy ready to play in the NHL, period. That said, is it really that far-fetched to get a ready-to-go 2nd pairing guy for a 22 year old 20-goal scorer? (Again, you overvalue Bolduc and his 19 goals.) Not saying that deal was anywhere to be had, but there's lot's of room between that and what we got in Mailloux...There isn't a lot of room. 22 year old Right Handed defensmen are rare gold in the NHL. The kid had 12 games of NHL experience at defense and you want to compare him to a wing who has played 70+ games....how fair is that?

The Blues were not going to pay Bolduc....He was a third line wing at best.
Personally, I'd rather have Suter. Do you know that Bolduc has spent a lot of time on both the 3rd and 4th lines this season.

How many times has Bolduc been sent back down to the AHL this season? I believe Bolduc was sent back to the AHL after he had 12-15 games in the NHL. It takes time for young guys to know what is expected and it takes even longer for a defenseman.

3rd line wing at best...I'm no Bolduc superfan, but I don't know how you can declare that, especially looking at the state of the team now. He's one off of our team leaders in goals...playing on the 3rd and 4th line with MTL...Going into the season, with Snuggs on the team...he was looking at being a 3rd line wing...which is where he finished last season.

I think trading for a raw 22 year old RD is all you can expect when trading a Bolduc.

Unless you know what else was available (or what wasn't available)...you really can't trash the move.

Now I think you're undervaluing the ability to score 20 in the NHL...especially from a young guy (so let's say he scores 25 this year for the Blues, how are you going to pay him? Are you letting Holloway walk or Broberg? And if there wasn't much available, why pull the trigger then? Was Bolduc not under contract through this year still?(He would have been a RFA at the end of THIS season) 22-year old 20-goal scorer with a year still on his contract and we get a "raw" 22-year old RD with baggage, no NHL track record and highly debatable potential? I just don't see how that adds up... (Look at Broberg...how long did it take him to develop? Don't many experts say it takes 200 games for you to know what you are getting from a defenseman?) didn't many on this board say that the trade needed to be evaluated in 2-3 years to actually get a fair gauge?)

I have said from day 1 after this trade was made that we would be in for some really ugly hockey from Mailloux for this season and probably most of next. Why are you surprised with what you are getting? This was NEVER about this season..its about setting up for the future on defense when Parayko and Faulk won't be here.

Bolduc is a nice player...but this board overvalues him. Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? We will never know. But I'd still make that deal today.

[Bacchk29]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

Why does someone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL mean they have a bias or an agenda? The numbers are really bad - both the standard stats and the advanced metrics. There are tons of players that have been great AHL players that are unable to play in the NHL.

I don't think it's fair to just discount people who don't like what they see in him / don't like the trade as "biased". The objective stats support those with what you call an agenda.

Mailloux may end up being OK, but saying he has been any kind of positive contributor this year means you have to look past almost every stat and metric and rely solely on the subjective eye test and circumstantial evidence.

I love the people that say they’ve seen improvement in his game. It was posted recently 7 games -6 1 shot on goal. That’s improvement? I’d just like to know exactly wheee the improvement is. There’s absolutely no agenda here. Has nothing to do with Bolduc at this point.

[callitwhatyouwant]

Anyone saying Mailloux shouldn't be in the NHL is being biased and has an agenda. Mailloux 100 percent should be a 6th defensemen in the NHL. The problem with the Blues is, they have a top 4 defense and then 2 6/7 guys in the lineup. So essentially you have 1 guy out there 66 percent of the time who is a bottom level defender on a team. The Blues and Army especially dropped the ball by not resigning Suter. If the plan was to go full LM all year, they should have given him a proven safety blanket that Tucker got last year with Suter. That way you could have continued your good defensive play with 2 really strong units and 1 serviceable one. Instead of you have holes in 2 of your units and people having to cover for guys that are learning.

Tucker's future in the NHL is 6/7. LM has more upside so we will see where that goes. But LM isn't an AHL player. He was an all star 2 years in a row. There's very little he can learn from being down there. He is a NHL player who needs to see NHL ice to get better. That's a fact.

I 100% agree with everything re: them not setting him up well and failing to have a solid veteran to play with him. But come on man, I don't have any "agenda." I just watch the games. The guy got sent back to the AHL from THIS team. And it was deserved. And since, yes he has progressed...from disaster to borderline NHLer. And hopefully it continues; I mean yeah, let him play now, it's the bed we made. But he does not sniff the lineup on a good number of teams in this league right now.

I don't know why someone twisted what I said. All I was trying to say was that this team he might be getting exposed. But he belongs in the NHL. The blanket statement that he shouldn't be in the NHL right now is saying that he isn't good enough to be on 32 rosters. What he has proven is that he is too good for the AHL. This isn't some 29 year old tearing up the AHL and is a lifer down there. This is a young kid who just had 2 all star seasons at that league. At that point you no longer are an AHL player. You only have 1 place where you can go learn and get better and that's the NHL. That's a fact. You don't get better at your job by beating up on people beneath you and expect to be ready to go at the next spot where 600 players players are all better than the players you just played against.

I was pointing out that the Blues made this a bad situation for Tucker and Mailloux. They can support 1 of them, but not both. If they chose to go in on the development of LM they should have given him someone like Suter to help him handle the situation. But the 2nd and 3rd lines are both exposed because they have 1 guy who is a 6/7 guy playing. This isn't sheltered minutes anymore. They should be sheltered minutes and positive line setups. But that's not the situation. And with Broberg in concussion protocol, good luck.

At no point am I saying this guy is going to stick in the NHL, or if he's getting better or worse. It's the only place for him to grow at the moment.

[theograce]

But he belongs in the NHL.

Montreal said he wasn’t less than a year ago. I mean it’s such a crazy thing to think he’s still not ready a few months later lol

[skilles]

The Blues personnel that told us that Mailloux was ready when we traded for him should not be in the NHL.

Mailloux was not nearly an unknown to the hockey world. Even most Montreal fans could tell that he wasnt ready. Now most Blues fans say the same thing.

Congrats Blues fans. You know more than Army.

That’s why I don’t believe the story we were told on why they made the move. Our scouts don’t miss this bad. Something happened with Bolduc and they wanted him gone at all costs.

I mean, it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, but I can't dismiss it.

How do you trade a rising young forward with size who essentially scored 20 last year for...THIS? And then you anoint him a starter before training camp begins, with the bright idea of pairing him with Tucker out of the gate...just putting the guy in pretty much the worst situation for him. Their scouting really thought he would flourish in those circumstances?

It's got to be the most baffling offseason move Army has ever made. The entire hockey world was scratching their heads over it. And even if something had gone completely sour with Bolduc somehow, how in the world is Mailloux the best return you can find? Not even a pick thrown our way too?

Well because as has been rehashed over and over and over again

Blues will be extending Holloway, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Snuggerug and Neighbours again the Blues did not want to extend Bolduc who they feel is a 3rd liner which they have
Blues have an organizational weakness at RHD which is a commodity in the NHL
Fairly simple

No I get that, and that's not even my point. I said at the time that I understood the idea, and they were trading from obvious strength (wingers) to address a weakness, and I knew nothing about Mailloux's game. I reserved judgment until I saw him play. But can you look now and say that's anywhere close to an even trade?

To me, the jury is way out on whether Mailloux will ever become the equivalent of what Bolduc already is...2nd pair D vs. middle 6 fwd. He might, I really hope he does...but was that risk worth it? Bolduc is RFA after THIS season, yeah? Why did he have to move already? Why was the trade straight-up? A 20-ish goal scorer of the same age for a guy arguably not even ready for the NHL full-time?

There's just something very peculiar about the whole deal.

You put entirely too much value on Bolduc.
Did you think Bolduc could actually fetch a top 4 NHL ready defenseman?

Not necessarily, but I kind of thought they'd get a guy ready to play in the NHL, period. That said, is it really that far-fetched to get a ready-to-go 2nd pairing guy for a 22 year old 20-goal scorer? (Again, you overvalue Bolduc and his 19 goals.) Not saying that deal was anywhere to be had, but there's lot's of room between that and what we got in Mailloux...There isn't a lot of room. 22 year old Right Handed defensmen are rare gold in the NHL. The kid had 12 games of NHL experience at defense and you want to compare him to a wing who has played 70+ games....how fair is that?

The Blues were not going to pay Bolduc....He was a third line wing at best.
Personally, I'd rather have Suter. Do you know that Bolduc has spent a lot of time on both the 3rd and 4th lines this season.

How many times has Bolduc been sent back down to the AHL this season? I believe Bolduc was sent back to the AHL after he had 12-15 games in the NHL. It takes time for young guys to know what is expected and it takes even longer for a defenseman.

3rd line wing at best...I'm no Bolduc superfan, but I don't know how you can declare that, especially looking at the state of the team now. He's one off of our team leaders in goals...playing on the 3rd and 4th line with MTL...Going into the season, with Snuggs on the team...he was looking at being a 3rd line wing...which is where he finished last season.

I think trading for a raw 22 year old RD is all you can expect when trading a Bolduc.

Unless you know what else was available (or what wasn't available)...you really can't trash the move.

Now I think you're undervaluing the ability to score 20 in the NHL...especially from a young guy (so let's say he scores 25 this year for the Blues, how are you going to pay him? Are you letting Holloway walk or Broberg? And if there wasn't much available, why pull the trigger then? Was Bolduc not under contract through this year still?(He would have been a RFA at the end of THIS season) 22-year old 20-goal scorer with a year still on his contract and we get a "raw" 22-year old RD with baggage, no NHL track record and highly debatable potential? I just don't see how that adds up... (Look at Broberg...how long did it take him to develop? Don't many experts say it takes 200 games for you to know what you are getting from a defenseman?) didn't many on this board say that the trade needed to be evaluated in 2-3 years to actually get a fair gauge?)

I have said from day 1 after this trade was made that we would be in for some really ugly hockey from Mailloux for this season and probably most of next. Why are you surprised with what you are getting? This was NEVER about this season..its about setting up for the future on defense when Parayko and Faulk won't be here.

Bolduc is a nice player...but this board overvalues him. Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? We will never know. But I'd still make that deal today.

LOL no its not Bolduc being overvalue, its Mailloux that was and is way over valued.

I hated the trade as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with overvaluing Bolduc at all. I liked Bolduc but I never overvalued him.

People say dumb things like "people act like Bolduc is the second coming of Hull" Ive never seen anyone act like that. We traded him for a player who we could likely do better than in free agency.

[Harry S Deals]

The Blues personnel that told us that Mailloux was ready when we traded for him should not be in the NHL.

Mailloux was not nearly an unknown to the hockey world. Even most Montreal fans could tell that he wasnt ready. Now most Blues fans say the same thing.

Congrats Blues fans. You know more than Army.

That’s why I don’t believe the story we were told on why they made the move. Our scouts don’t miss this bad. Something happened with Bolduc and they wanted him gone at all costs.

I mean, it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, but I can't dismiss it.

How do you trade a rising young forward with size who essentially scored 20 last year for...THIS? And then you anoint him a starter before training camp begins, with the bright idea of pairing him with Tucker out of the gate...just putting the guy in pretty much the worst situation for him. Their scouting really thought he would flourish in those circumstances?

It's got to be the most baffling offseason move Army has ever made. The entire hockey world was scratching their heads over it. And even if something had gone completely sour with Bolduc somehow, how in the world is Mailloux the best return you can find? Not even a pick thrown our way too?

Well because as has been rehashed over and over and over again

Blues will be extending Holloway, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Snuggerug and Neighbours again the Blues did not want to extend Bolduc who they feel is a 3rd liner which they have
Blues have an organizational weakness at RHD which is a commodity in the NHL
Fairly simple

No I get that, and that's not even my point. I said at the time that I understood the idea, and they were trading from obvious strength (wingers) to address a weakness, and I knew nothing about Mailloux's game. I reserved judgment until I saw him play. But can you look now and say that's anywhere close to an even trade?

To me, the jury is way out on whether Mailloux will ever become the equivalent of what Bolduc already is...2nd pair D vs. middle 6 fwd. He might, I really hope he does...but was that risk worth it? Bolduc is RFA after THIS season, yeah? Why did he have to move already? Why was the trade straight-up? A 20-ish goal scorer of the same age for a guy arguably not even ready for the NHL full-time?

There's just something very peculiar about the whole deal.

You put entirely too much value on Bolduc.
Did you think Bolduc could actually fetch a top 4 NHL ready defenseman?

Not necessarily, but I kind of thought they'd get a guy ready to play in the NHL, period. That said, is it really that far-fetched to get a ready-to-go 2nd pairing guy for a 22 year old 20-goal scorer? (Again, you overvalue Bolduc and his 19 goals.) Not saying that deal was anywhere to be had, but there's lot's of room between that and what we got in Mailloux...There isn't a lot of room. 22 year old Right Handed defensmen are rare gold in the NHL. The kid had 12 games of NHL experience at defense and you want to compare him to a wing who has played 70+ games....how fair is that?

The Blues were not going to pay Bolduc....He was a third line wing at best.
Personally, I'd rather have Suter. Do you know that Bolduc has spent a lot of time on both the 3rd and 4th lines this season.

How many times has Bolduc been sent back down to the AHL this season? I believe Bolduc was sent back to the AHL after he had 12-15 games in the NHL. It takes time for young guys to know what is expected and it takes even longer for a defenseman.

3rd line wing at best...I'm no Bolduc superfan, but I don't know how you can declare that, especially looking at the state of the team now. He's one off of our team leaders in goals...playing on the 3rd and 4th line with MTL...Going into the season, with Snuggs on the team...he was looking at being a 3rd line wing...which is where he finished last season.

I think trading for a raw 22 year old RD is all you can expect when trading a Bolduc.

Unless you know what else was available (or what wasn't available)...you really can't trash the move.

Now I think you're undervaluing the ability to score 20 in the NHL...especially from a young guy (so let's say he scores 25 this year for the Blues, how are you going to pay him? Are you letting Holloway walk or Broberg? And if there wasn't much available, why pull the trigger then? Was Bolduc not under contract through this year still?(He would have been a RFA at the end of THIS season) 22-year old 20-goal scorer with a year still on his contract and we get a "raw" 22-year old RD with baggage, no NHL track record and highly debatable potential? I just don't see how that adds up... (Look at Broberg...how long did it take him to develop? Don't many experts say it takes 200 games for you to know what you are getting from a defenseman?) didn't many on this board say that the trade needed to be evaluated in 2-3 years to actually get a fair gauge?)

I have said from day 1 after this trade was made that we would be in for some really ugly hockey from Mailloux for this season and probably most of next. Why are you surprised with what you are getting? This was NEVER about this season..its about setting up for the future on defense when Parayko and Faulk won't be here.

Bolduc is a nice player...but this board overvalues him. Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? We will never know. But I'd still make that deal today.

LOL no its not Bolduc being overvalue, its Mailloux that was and is way over valued.

I hated the trade as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with overvaluing Bolduc at all. I liked Bolduc but I never overvalued him.

People say dumb things like "people act like Bolduc is the second coming of Hull" Ive never seen anyone act like that. We traded him for a player who we could likely do better than in free agency.

Whos overvaluing Mailloux? Most, guys like Pronger included have said its going to take LM 200 NHL games ish to find his groove. Hes a project. He did have a good camp and good pre season games but once the league gets going the play is fast and its really tough to learn NHL D on the job esp with a poor LHD partner.

[Ziggy3]

Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? [/color]

YES! Yes I did, and that's why my original response was agreeing with Pierre's post insinuating exactly that. Because otherwise it doesn't make much sense on paper. I don't understand why they felt the need to take a flyer on LM, at the time they did, in exchange for a Bolduc still a year away from being RFA. Have to wonder about something behind the scenes...

[skilles]

The Blues personnel that told us that Mailloux was ready when we traded for him should not be in the NHL.

Mailloux was not nearly an unknown to the hockey world. Even most Montreal fans could tell that he wasnt ready. Now most Blues fans say the same thing.

Congrats Blues fans. You know more than Army.

That’s why I don’t believe the story we were told on why they made the move. Our scouts don’t miss this bad. Something happened with Bolduc and they wanted him gone at all costs.

I mean, it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, but I can't dismiss it.

How do you trade a rising young forward with size who essentially scored 20 last year for...THIS? And then you anoint him a starter before training camp begins, with the bright idea of pairing him with Tucker out of the gate...just putting the guy in pretty much the worst situation for him. Their scouting really thought he would flourish in those circumstances?

It's got to be the most baffling offseason move Army has ever made. The entire hockey world was scratching their heads over it. And even if something had gone completely sour with Bolduc somehow, how in the world is Mailloux the best return you can find? Not even a pick thrown our way too?

Well because as has been rehashed over and over and over again

Blues will be extending Holloway, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Snuggerug and Neighbours again the Blues did not want to extend Bolduc who they feel is a 3rd liner which they have
Blues have an organizational weakness at RHD which is a commodity in the NHL
Fairly simple

No I get that, and that's not even my point. I said at the time that I understood the idea, and they were trading from obvious strength (wingers) to address a weakness, and I knew nothing about Mailloux's game. I reserved judgment until I saw him play. But can you look now and say that's anywhere close to an even trade?

To me, the jury is way out on whether Mailloux will ever become the equivalent of what Bolduc already is...2nd pair D vs. middle 6 fwd. He might, I really hope he does...but was that risk worth it? Bolduc is RFA after THIS season, yeah? Why did he have to move already? Why was the trade straight-up? A 20-ish goal scorer of the same age for a guy arguably not even ready for the NHL full-time?

There's just something very peculiar about the whole deal.

You put entirely too much value on Bolduc.
Did you think Bolduc could actually fetch a top 4 NHL ready defenseman?

Not necessarily, but I kind of thought they'd get a guy ready to play in the NHL, period. That said, is it really that far-fetched to get a ready-to-go 2nd pairing guy for a 22 year old 20-goal scorer? (Again, you overvalue Bolduc and his 19 goals.) Not saying that deal was anywhere to be had, but there's lot's of room between that and what we got in Mailloux...There isn't a lot of room. 22 year old Right Handed defensmen are rare gold in the NHL. The kid had 12 games of NHL experience at defense and you want to compare him to a wing who has played 70+ games....how fair is that?

The Blues were not going to pay Bolduc....He was a third line wing at best.
Personally, I'd rather have Suter. Do you know that Bolduc has spent a lot of time on both the 3rd and 4th lines this season.

How many times has Bolduc been sent back down to the AHL this season? I believe Bolduc was sent back to the AHL after he had 12-15 games in the NHL. It takes time for young guys to know what is expected and it takes even longer for a defenseman.

3rd line wing at best...I'm no Bolduc superfan, but I don't know how you can declare that, especially looking at the state of the team now. He's one off of our team leaders in goals...playing on the 3rd and 4th line with MTL...Going into the season, with Snuggs on the team...he was looking at being a 3rd line wing...which is where he finished last season.

I think trading for a raw 22 year old RD is all you can expect when trading a Bolduc.

Unless you know what else was available (or what wasn't available)...you really can't trash the move.

Now I think you're undervaluing the ability to score 20 in the NHL...especially from a young guy (so let's say he scores 25 this year for the Blues, how are you going to pay him? Are you letting Holloway walk or Broberg? And if there wasn't much available, why pull the trigger then? Was Bolduc not under contract through this year still?(He would have been a RFA at the end of THIS season) 22-year old 20-goal scorer with a year still on his contract and we get a "raw" 22-year old RD with baggage, no NHL track record and highly debatable potential? I just don't see how that adds up... (Look at Broberg...how long did it take him to develop? Don't many experts say it takes 200 games for you to know what you are getting from a defenseman?) didn't many on this board say that the trade needed to be evaluated in 2-3 years to actually get a fair gauge?)

I have said from day 1 after this trade was made that we would be in for some really ugly hockey from Mailloux for this season and probably most of next. Why are you surprised with what you are getting? This was NEVER about this season..its about setting up for the future on defense when Parayko and Faulk won't be here.

Bolduc is a nice player...but this board overvalues him. Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? We will never know. But I'd still make that deal today.

LOL no its not Bolduc being overvalue, its Mailloux that was and is way over valued.

I hated the trade as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with overvaluing Bolduc at all. I liked Bolduc but I never overvalued him.

People say dumb things like "people act like Bolduc is the second coming of Hull" Ive never seen anyone act like that. We traded him for a player who we could likely do better than in free agency.

Whos overvaluing Mailloux? Most, guys like Pronger included have said its going to take LM 200 NHL games ish to find his groove. Hes a project. He did have a good camp and good pre season games but once the league gets going the play is fast and its really tough to learn NHL D on the job esp with a poor LHD partner.

Well IMO anyone who thinks that was even a reasonable trade

[skilles]

Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? [/color]

YES! Yes I did, and that's why my original response was agreeing with Pierre's post insinuating exactly that. Because otherwise it doesn't make much sense on paper. I don't understand why they felt the need to take a flyer on LM, at the time they did, in exchange for a Bolduc still a year away from being RFA. Have to wonder about something behind the scenes...

Sure could be but this group has made some ridiculously bad decisions on D men. This just being a bad choice certainly wouldn't make it the worst choice they have made

[Walter Sobchak00]

Bolduc is pacing for less than 20 goals and less than 40 points, I'd still make that trade today knowing what we know now. Mailloux may never make it to 100 games played but I'll still take the chance on his skill set while trading from a position of strength.

[Harry S Deals]

The Blues personnel that told us that Mailloux was ready when we traded for him should not be in the NHL.

Mailloux was not nearly an unknown to the hockey world. Even most Montreal fans could tell that he wasnt ready. Now most Blues fans say the same thing.

Congrats Blues fans. You know more than Army.

That’s why I don’t believe the story we were told on why they made the move. Our scouts don’t miss this bad. Something happened with Bolduc and they wanted him gone at all costs.

I mean, it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, but I can't dismiss it.

How do you trade a rising young forward with size who essentially scored 20 last year for...THIS? And then you anoint him a starter before training camp begins, with the bright idea of pairing him with Tucker out of the gate...just putting the guy in pretty much the worst situation for him. Their scouting really thought he would flourish in those circumstances?

It's got to be the most baffling offseason move Army has ever made. The entire hockey world was scratching their heads over it. And even if something had gone completely sour with Bolduc somehow, how in the world is Mailloux the best return you can find? Not even a pick thrown our way too?

Well because as has been rehashed over and over and over again

Blues will be extending Holloway, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Snuggerug and Neighbours again the Blues did not want to extend Bolduc who they feel is a 3rd liner which they have
Blues have an organizational weakness at RHD which is a commodity in the NHL
Fairly simple

No I get that, and that's not even my point. I said at the time that I understood the idea, and they were trading from obvious strength (wingers) to address a weakness, and I knew nothing about Mailloux's game. I reserved judgment until I saw him play. But can you look now and say that's anywhere close to an even trade?

To me, the jury is way out on whether Mailloux will ever become the equivalent of what Bolduc already is...2nd pair D vs. middle 6 fwd. He might, I really hope he does...but was that risk worth it? Bolduc is RFA after THIS season, yeah? Why did he have to move already? Why was the trade straight-up? A 20-ish goal scorer of the same age for a guy arguably not even ready for the NHL full-time?

There's just something very peculiar about the whole deal.

You put entirely too much value on Bolduc.
Did you think Bolduc could actually fetch a top 4 NHL ready defenseman?

Not necessarily, but I kind of thought they'd get a guy ready to play in the NHL, period. That said, is it really that far-fetched to get a ready-to-go 2nd pairing guy for a 22 year old 20-goal scorer? (Again, you overvalue Bolduc and his 19 goals.) Not saying that deal was anywhere to be had, but there's lot's of room between that and what we got in Mailloux...There isn't a lot of room. 22 year old Right Handed defensmen are rare gold in the NHL. The kid had 12 games of NHL experience at defense and you want to compare him to a wing who has played 70+ games....how fair is that?

The Blues were not going to pay Bolduc....He was a third line wing at best.
Personally, I'd rather have Suter. Do you know that Bolduc has spent a lot of time on both the 3rd and 4th lines this season.

How many times has Bolduc been sent back down to the AHL this season? I believe Bolduc was sent back to the AHL after he had 12-15 games in the NHL. It takes time for young guys to know what is expected and it takes even longer for a defenseman.

3rd line wing at best...I'm no Bolduc superfan, but I don't know how you can declare that, especially looking at the state of the team now. He's one off of our team leaders in goals...playing on the 3rd and 4th line with MTL...Going into the season, with Snuggs on the team...he was looking at being a 3rd line wing...which is where he finished last season.

I think trading for a raw 22 year old RD is all you can expect when trading a Bolduc.

Unless you know what else was available (or what wasn't available)...you really can't trash the move.

Now I think you're undervaluing the ability to score 20 in the NHL...especially from a young guy (so let's say he scores 25 this year for the Blues, how are you going to pay him? Are you letting Holloway walk or Broberg? And if there wasn't much available, why pull the trigger then? Was Bolduc not under contract through this year still?(He would have been a RFA at the end of THIS season) 22-year old 20-goal scorer with a year still on his contract and we get a "raw" 22-year old RD with baggage, no NHL track record and highly debatable potential? I just don't see how that adds up... (Look at Broberg...how long did it take him to develop? Don't many experts say it takes 200 games for you to know what you are getting from a defenseman?) didn't many on this board say that the trade needed to be evaluated in 2-3 years to actually get a fair gauge?)

I have said from day 1 after this trade was made that we would be in for some really ugly hockey from Mailloux for this season and probably most of next. Why are you surprised with what you are getting? This was NEVER about this season..its about setting up for the future on defense when Parayko and Faulk won't be here.

Bolduc is a nice player...but this board overvalues him. Did you ever think that maybe the Blues WANTED to unload him because they had serious issues with him? We will never know. But I'd still make that deal today.

LOL no its not Bolduc being overvalue, its Mailloux that was and is way over valued.

I hated the trade as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with overvaluing Bolduc at all. I liked Bolduc but I never overvalued him.

People say dumb things like "people act like Bolduc is the second coming of Hull" Ive never seen anyone act like that. We traded him for a player who we could likely do better than in free agency.

Whos overvaluing Mailloux? Most, guys like Pronger included have said its going to take LM 200 NHL games ish to find his groove. Hes a project. He did have a good camp and good pre season games but once the league gets going the play is fast and its really tough to learn NHL D on the job esp with a poor LHD partner.

Well IMO anyone who thinks that was even a reasonable trade

Yep, lets check back down the road on this and see

[skilles]

Bolduc is pacing for less than 20 goals and less than 40 points, I'd still make that trade today knowing what we know now. Mailloux may never make it to 100 games played but I'll still take the chance on his skill set while trading from a position of strength.

Anything can happen down the road, I'm talking about the value when the deal was made. If you are counting on making bad value trades and them working out anyway you are going to lose that gamble most of the time.