Army is out of options

[TruBlueFan_1970]

This game should flip the switch from the "core" that isnt getting it done to the younger, hungrier guys. Stenberg had 4 Hits, a big steal and a goal for instance.

Aside from the goalie who should be Hofer the next logical move is giving ice time including PP time to the guys who can create chances vs passing around the perimeter and whiffing on shots. Why is Buch in the bumper spot? This is the guy with the weakest wrists and the worst shot.

PP1 -
Thomas
Snuggerud
Dvorsky
Stenberg
Broberg

PP2
Schenn
Kyrou
Buch
Neighbours
Faulk

Neighbours Thomas Snuggerud
Stenberg Dvorsky Berggern
Buch Schenn Kyrou
Torop Sunny Walker

Agree wholeheartedly Harry. I'm sick of watching Buch be "the guy" that they keep trying to feed. Even when he is open, he shoots it into the crest of the goalie. My only change to your ideas above is that I would replace Buch on that 2nd PP with Berggren. His puck skills and vision would complement the shooters on that unit better than Buch. Use him on the PK and 3rd line....period.

[seattleblue]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

You had a 50/50 chance of being right, (bleep).

Absolute garbage poster. Trash, Jeff

[aslord]

He clearly needs to send a message. What are we even playing for? I don’t want to keep hearing we are 3pts out of a playoff spot….i guess it’s 5 now so that’s a bonus. This team is absolute hot garbage and there is a serious problem in that locker room and it needs to be addressed before it infects our young players

As a homer, hard for me to say this, but you are 100-percent right.

Thumped by Avs in Denver? Understandable. Thumped by Bedard-less ChickenHawks? Mystifying.

once that second goal went in and the way it went in, you just knew the rest of the game was going to go poorly.

How can he play so spectacularly on Saturday, and then completely ish the bed in such an important game?

I don't know where his head is, but it isn't hasn't been on the ice much this season because his focus has been terrible.

There was nothing important about that game.

[hotrivets]

Would like to trade- given a big chance and not making the effort- out of rope with me

Thomas
Kyrou
Buchnevich

Okay with keeping or trading- they fill a role and you know what you get consistently
Neighbours
Schenn
Sundqvist
Walker
Fabbri
Joseph
Tucker
Fowler
Mailloux
Kessel
Binnington- not consistent this year but we have a big body of work to judge him on
Toropchenko

Would rather hang on to- young guys who show promise and we don't know yet so why give up on them plus a few vets for stability
Snuggerud
Stenberg-
Dvorsky-
Berggren
Bjugstad-
Broberg-
Parayko
Faulk
Hofer

[skilles]

Armstrong’s days are done — the game has completely passed him by. I mean, look at what Zito’s doing in Florida, BriseBois in Tampa, even Kent Hughes in Montreal. Meanwhile, Armstrong’s still stuck trying to figure out the basics. Time to retire now and not at the end.

you mean the guy who completely turned the NHL world upside down last off season by offer sheeting two top 15 picks and getting both?

That guy has had the game pass him by?

I mean its kind of overblown, getting those 2 players was great but it was more incompetence on the other end than some kind of act of genius. Sounds like quite a few teams did the same think and luckily they chose the Blues.

Anyway its not that Army has always been bad at all but its time to make changes and quit knee jerking all the symptoms.

We are not getting any where near a reasonable return on the money being spent or the players we have and its been that way for awhile and its time for changes....sometimes the best thing about a new culture is that its new.

Its not always about blaming or fault or whatever, sometimes its just about starting a new chapter.

[theograce]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

You had a 50/50 chance of being right, (bleep).

Absolute garbage poster. Trash, Jeff

He’s a multiple accounter who doesn’t understand the sport well. Why even bother? I don’t read what he says.

[Army's Mom]

Wanna send a message? Waive (yes, I said WAIVE) an NTC player. Show the team you're more willing to eat the loss than to endure the madness.

You make a good point — I’ve been wondering the same thing. And honestly, I’ve got a feeling nobody wants to trade with us right now. If you’re going to send a message, that’ll do it… but he’d better make sure he picks the right one to waive.

Starts with Ky and ends in rou.
I dont care how many 50 goal seasons he has in his future. The team played better when he was out.

I’ve been a staunch defender of the guy because of the skill. I’m at the point that a change of scenery is probably best. Here’s the issue- you get rid of him. Then what? Are we getting a top 6 consistent player in return? You would have to otherwise you’re not trading him. I’ve mentioned this several times you’re last in the league in scoring. If trades are made you have to address your issues not just addition by subtraction.

Raises the point. Do you need a top 6 producer now in return. Perhaps having the roster spot open it allows one of our prospects the opportunity to show some skills they don't/won't get playing on the 3rd line (Carboneau, Jecho)... or the prospects we get in return.

Exactly. Kyrou is on pace for 40 pts. He's not playing like a top 6 today. Honestly, the ghost of Fabbri can do whatever Kyrou is doing with the lineup spot.

I'm past the point of "change of scenery" and to the point of "addition by subtraction".

The Blues were more enjoyable to watch when Jordan Kyrou was out hurt. Period.

Waive him, buy him out, trade him to Siberia, I don't care. He couldn't appear more disinterested in being here. And the longer Army lets that stink linger, the more my opinion of Army is changing. He's already waited way too long.

You don't NEED a top six producer back.

You don't NEED a 40 pt scorer back, though that would at least keep pace with Kyrou.

You need someone who wants to be here back.

[Pierre McGuire]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

I’ve been concerned for a long time. We are past the point of no return. We need to see some players moved.
I don’t know about anybody referring to you as a troll but it surely wasn’t me.
“Now that Tim has given permission”. Lol..funny stuff

[MiamiLaw]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

I’ve been concerned for a long time. We are past the point of no return. We need to see some players moved.
I don’t know about anybody referring to you as a troll but it surely wasn’t me.
“Now that Tim has given permission”. Lol..funny stuff

No no it wasn't you at all. Others said it. I am just commenting that now that you have said it, the same people who were calling all of us out for being negative are now on the sell train.

It goes to the respect you have in this forum. But I am calling out other people, not you.

[Harry S Deals]

Armstrong’s days are done — the game has completely passed him by. I mean, look at what Zito’s doing in Florida, BriseBois in Tampa, even Kent Hughes in Montreal. Meanwhile, Armstrong’s still stuck trying to figure out the basics. Time to retire now and not at the end.

you mean the guy who completely turned the NHL world upside down last off season by offer sheeting two top 15 picks and getting both?

That guy has had the game pass him by?

I mean its kind of overblown, getting those 2 players was great but it was more incompetence on the other end than some kind of act of genius. Sounds like quite a few teams did the same think and luckily they chose the Blues.

Anyway its not that Army has always been bad at all but its time to make changes and quit knee jerking all the symptoms.

We are not getting any where near a reasonable return on the money being spent or the players we have and its been that way for awhile and its time for changes....sometimes the best thing about a new culture is that its new.

Its not always about blaming or fault or whatever, sometimes its just about starting a new chapter.

We have to admit this is a fairly monstrous drop in production that NO ONE would have predicted based on career norms. Sure we could say that Buch is liable to have a drop in pts, but Thomas and Kyrou? No way. i cannot logically dump on Armstrong for extending two known commodities to what at the time was team friendly.
So either this year is a blip and with a younger, hungrier supporting cast and next year they recover, they are hurt, they hate Monty, not sure what is up but dumping on the GM is a little over the top.
Here is where i have an issue with Army: did Buch need 8 yrs at his age? how about 5? did he jump too fast to extend Fowler at his age?
This TDL and this Summer will be paramount to turning this train around quick or staying in a quagmire

[theograce]

So either this year is a blip

Teams have bedards, celly’s, drais/davies. Watch other teams

Watch Hutson and then watch Broberg.

You called Broberg the best Dman since Pronger.

You don’t get it

[a smell of green grass]

Armstrong’s days are done — the game has completely passed him by. I mean, look at what Zito’s doing in Florida, BriseBois in Tampa, even Kent Hughes in Montreal. Meanwhile, Armstrong’s still stuck trying to figure out the basics. Time to retire now and not at the end.

you mean the guy who completely turned the NHL world upside down last off season by offer sheeting two top 15 picks and getting both?

That guy has had the game pass him by?

The offer sheets proved that Army is failing. When we all found out the 2 on Edmonton's bench are way better than anything on ours, it raised red flags. Offer sheets should demonstrate that you know how to add 1 piece of icing to the top of your cake, not prove that your bench was completely empty.

Same thing with the Berggren waiver claim. To see that Detroit's trash is on our first line does not indicate that our GM is doing well.

In my mind, you can't just throw out Army. You have also remove Army 1.00000001, Steen. You have to also remove the scouts and personnel people that have been feeding Army bad advice. That should be step one of the fix.

[MiamiLaw]

Armstrong’s days are done — the game has completely passed him by. I mean, look at what Zito’s doing in Florida, BriseBois in Tampa, even Kent Hughes in Montreal. Meanwhile, Armstrong’s still stuck trying to figure out the basics. Time to retire now and not at the end.

you mean the guy who completely turned the NHL world upside down last off season by offer sheeting two top 15 picks and getting both?

That guy has had the game pass him by?

I mean its kind of overblown, getting those 2 players was great but it was more incompetence on the other end than some kind of act of genius. Sounds like quite a few teams did the same think and luckily they chose the Blues.

Anyway its not that Army has always been bad at all but its time to make changes and quit knee jerking all the symptoms.

We are not getting any where near a reasonable return on the money being spent or the players we have and its been that way for awhile and its time for changes....sometimes the best thing about a new culture is that its new.

Its not always about blaming or fault or whatever, sometimes its just about starting a new chapter.

We have to admit this is a fairly monstrous drop in production that NO ONE would have predicted based on career norms. Sure we could say that Buch is liable to have a drop in pts, but Thomas and Kyrou? No way. i cannot logically dump on Armstrong for extending two known commodities to what at the time was team friendly.
So either this year is a blip and with a younger, hungrier supporting cast and next year they recover, they are hurt, they hate Monty, not sure what is up but dumping on the GM is a little over the top.
Here is where i have an issue with Army: did Buch need 8 yrs at his age? how about 5? did he jump too fast to extend Fowler at his age?
This TDL and this Summer will be paramount to turning this train around quick or staying in a quagmire

This I think is a rational point. Almost every single core player - minus Faulk maybe - is trending significantly down from career norms on the offensive end. Binnington doesn't even look NHL caliber most nights. No way Army could prepare for this kind of drop nor was it foreseeable.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

Armstrong’s days are done — the game has completely passed him by. I mean, look at what Zito’s doing in Florida, BriseBois in Tampa, even Kent Hughes in Montreal. Meanwhile, Armstrong’s still stuck trying to figure out the basics. Time to retire now and not at the end.

you mean the guy who completely turned the NHL world upside down last off season by offer sheeting two top 15 picks and getting both?

That guy has had the game pass him by?

I mean its kind of overblown, getting those 2 players was great but it was more incompetence on the other end than some kind of act of genius. Sounds like quite a few teams did the same think and luckily they chose the Blues.

Anyway its not that Army has always been bad at all but its time to make changes and quit knee jerking all the symptoms.

We are not getting any where near a reasonable return on the money being spent or the players we have and its been that way for awhile and its time for changes....sometimes the best thing about a new culture is that its new.

Its not always about blaming or fault or whatever, sometimes its just about starting a new chapter.

We have to admit this is a fairly monstrous drop in production that NO ONE would have predicted based on career norms. Sure we could say that Buch is liable to have a drop in pts, but Thomas and Kyrou? No way. i cannot logically dump on Armstrong for extending two known commodities to what at the time was team friendly.
So either this year is a blip and with a younger, hungrier supporting cast and next year they recover, they are hurt, they hate Monty, not sure what is up but dumping on the GM is a little over the top.
Here is where i have an issue with Army: did Buch need 8 yrs at his age? how about 5? did he jump too fast to extend Fowler at his age?
This TDL and this Summer will be paramount to turning this train around quick or staying in a quagmire

You are not going to see a fire sale at the TDL as much as one may be needed. The nature of this team and the standings (as with pretty much every team in the west) will mean that until the TDL this team - barring a run - will be within striking distance of the playoffs and a top 5 pick. Anaheim is now out of spot. Every team has seemed to have gone through up and down periods ( more down with us save the OT record). Depending on need Schenn and Faulk and depending on the Olympics Binner should in theory be dealt. But just giving them away doesn't make sense either especially when you have more flexibility to make a deal this summer.

[juan good eye]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

I’ve been concerned for a long time. We are past the point of no return. We need to see some players moved.
I don’t know about anybody referring to you as a troll but it surely wasn’t me.
“Now that Tim has given permission”. Lol..funny stuff

No no it wasn't you at all. Others said it. I am just commenting that now that you have said it, the same people who were calling all of us out for being negative are now on the sell train.

It goes to the respect you have in this forum. But I am calling out other people, not you.

FWIW Minnesota and hihat both acknowledged it in recent seasons — at least briefly — and those post were ignored.

[MiamiLaw]

Pierre, you know I respect you so this is not at all your fault, but I think it is effing hysterical that there are several people here who have been concerned with this team for a prolonged periods and we were all called trolls. But now that Tim has given everyone permission to give up, people are piling on board the sell train.

Are all the people who called me a troll and perpetually negative going to admit they were wrong now?

As to the thread, yes it is beyond time to sell. This team is one of the least talented in the league on paper. Last year was an aberration and they caught lightning in a bottle to barely make the playoffs. They all bought in in spectacular fashion and it was fun but it was an illusion. The team we've seen for 21 of the last 24 months is the real Blues.

I’ve been concerned for a long time. We are past the point of no return. We need to see some players moved.
I don’t know about anybody referring to you as a troll but it surely wasn’t me.
“Now that Tim has given permission”. Lol..funny stuff

No no it wasn't you at all. Others said it. I am just commenting that now that you have said it, the same people who were calling all of us out for being negative are now on the sell train.

It goes to the respect you have in this forum. But I am calling out other people, not you.

FWIW Minnesota and hihat both acknowledged it in recent seasons — at least briefly — and those post were ignored.

Yea and both of them are pretty objective posters. No surprise there. I think anyone who watches this league beyond the Blues would have to acknowledge that they have a major talent deficit and the talent they do have is supplementary and not primary in almost every case.