League Expansion is

[BleedingBleu]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The talent pool for the NFL is so bad, they keep resurrecting retired QB’s and they sling it.

Philip Rivers retired after the 2020 Season. At the age of 44, he came off the sofa and threw for ~550 yards and an 80.2 QB Rate; which was better than how he performed in his age 24 season.

That 80.2 Rate was better than Cam Ward’s, who was the #1 Overall Pick in the Draft last year

[LewisL]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The main difference between the NFL and NHL on the expansion subject is that the NHL has 7 teams in Canada and the NFL has none. There are more large cities available to the NHL like Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix. No need to worry about the talent level getting watered down as the NHL pulls players from all over North America and Europe.

I think the NFL should and will expand, with the best new cities being St. Louis and Toronto.

Not to be a jerk, but why would the league remotely consider Phoenix? They literally just moved a team from there to Utah after the nightmare that was the Coyotes.

That's a legit question. The primary problem in Arizona was related to the arena, specifically the location of the arena in Glendale. From what I understand, getting to the arena was difficult for most of the population of the greater Phoenix area, especially for weekday night games. That's why they moved to Arizona State's college-size arena while they tried to get a new building in a better location approved. The new building never materialized.

I've read that the amateur hockey program in the area is very good and there is already high interest in the NHL from the Coyote days. An expansion team would only be awarded if a new building in a good location is fully approved. But back to your question, the NHL would have to be skeptical going into it and do a lot of due diligence to make sure a new franchise would work out.

Didn't Atlanta already fail to support an NHL franchise? They lost the Flames to Calgary.

[rezero]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

Agree. We need to contract and shed a few teams. I will put votes in to eliminate Chicago and Vegas.

[Bubble4427]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The main difference between the NFL and NHL on the expansion subject is that the NHL has 7 teams in Canada and the NFL has none. There are more large cities available to the NHL like Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix. No need to worry about the talent level getting watered down as the NHL pulls players from all over North America and Europe.

I think the NFL should and will expand, with the best new cities being St. Louis and Toronto.

Sorry Frank, but the NFL to St. Louis ship has sailed.
It'll never happen.

Never say never, Bub!

We burned way too many bridges.
The NFL does not have a good reputation with civic leaders with how they screwed us over and they aren’t big fans of St. Louis. They have never had a judgement against them that was as large as what they had to pay to STL.

Seriously, do you really think St. Louis would be willing to invest in another stadium? Would the state of Missouri? Keep in mind that the state will be losing the Chiefs shortly.

[DawgDad]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The main difference between the NFL and NHL on the expansion subject is that the NHL has 7 teams in Canada and the NFL has none. There are more large cities available to the NHL like Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix. No need to worry about the talent level getting watered down as the NHL pulls players from all over North America and Europe.

I think the NFL should and will expand, with the best new cities being St. Louis and Toronto.

Not to be a jerk, but why would the league remotely consider Phoenix? They literally just moved a team from there to Utah after the nightmare that was the Coyotes.

That's a legit question. The primary problem in Arizona was related to the arena, specifically the location of the arena in Glendale. From what I understand, getting to the arena was difficult for most of the population of the greater Phoenix area, especially for weekday night games. That's why they moved to Arizona State's college-size arena while they tried to get a new building in a better location approved. The new building never materialized.

I've read that the amateur hockey program in the area is very good and there is already high interest in the NHL from the Coyote days. An expansion team would only be awarded if a new building in a good location is fully approved. But back to your question, the NHL would have to be skeptical going into it and do a lot of due diligence to make sure a new franchise would work out.

Didn't Atlanta already fail to support an NHL franchise? They lost the Flames to Calgary.

Don't get me started. I moved to the Atlanta metro area from St. Louis in 1998. Here for the entire Thrashers existence. Imagine having the #1 pick to launch your franchise and winding up with Fabbri or EJ. Imagine an ownership group that sued itself out of existence. Imagine other factors that cannot be discussed on this forum. Imagine going to a game, getting there early to hang out and see the pregame warmup only to discover they don't open the doors until 15 minutes before gametime. Imagine the young player destined to be the face of the franchise who flips his car going over 100 mph in a 40, killing a teammate.

I can go on and on. Hockey fans here deserve an honest shot at an NHLfranchise, not the albatross we got saddled with before.

[Cahokanut]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

I hear that Atlanta and Phoenix can support NHL teams. The league needs to take a serious look at both!

Not fair to leave Quebec out. We do love Quebec. Which other team wears the uniforms of the cities they left. It's touching.

[BrummerStealsHome]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

I hear that Atlanta and Phoenix can support NHL teams. The league needs to take a serious look at both!

Not fair to leave Quebec out. We do love Quebec. Which other team wears the uniforms of the cities they left. It's touching.

[Bluesbacker]

Me personally I can't stand the idea of expansion and watered down quality of play. Along that vein, Atlanta and Arizona should not be in consideration for a long time if ever. I would love to see the Nords, and the Whale back in the league then stop with expansion.

[Frank Barone]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The main difference between the NFL and NHL on the expansion subject is that the NHL has 7 teams in Canada and the NFL has none. There are more large cities available to the NHL like Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix. No need to worry about the talent level getting watered down as the NHL pulls players from all over North America and Europe.

I think the NFL should and will expand, with the best new cities being St. Louis and Toronto.

Sorry Frank, but the NFL to St. Louis ship has sailed.
It'll never happen.

Never say never, Bub!

We burned way too many bridges.
The NFL does not have a good reputation with civic leaders with how they screwed us over and they aren’t big fans of St. Louis. They have never had a judgement against them that was as large as what they had to pay to STL.

Seriously, do you really think St. Louis would be willing to invest in another stadium? Would the state of Missouri? Keep in mind that the state will be losing the Chiefs shortly.

The state of Missouri just offered something like $1.5B to get the Chiefs to stay in the state. An NFL owner could take a fraction of that and add the unspent part of the St. Louis NFL settlement and fix up the dome to make it like new. No need for a new outdoor stadium. Peer cities like Chicago, Kansas City and Nashville are or will be building domes for their NFL teams. Minneapolis, Indianapolis and Detroit already have domes.

There is no such thing as burned bridges in big business. The NFL will do what is right for the league. STL was a very good NFL city twice before. STL has among the highest TV ratings shares in the US to this day for the NFL. The NFL wants to move to an 18 game regular season schedule, including 16 international games per year. They will probably need more teams to do this.

I'm not saying the NFL will put a team in STL, but it could make sense for everyone.

[the miracle]

When was last time the NFL expanded? It's the number 1 sports league in North America and they haven't pulled the trigger on adding more teams and sucking up more expansion dollars. The NHL has just added two teams to get to the logical number of 32 teams. Let's let that breathe for a bit, like 10-15 years before thinking about adding more teams. We don't need to water the talent level down any more or the product is going to suffer.

The main difference between the NFL and NHL on the expansion subject is that the NHL has 7 teams in Canada and the NFL has none. There are more large cities available to the NHL like Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix. No need to worry about the talent level getting watered down as the NHL pulls players from all over North America and Europe.

I think the NFL should and will expand, with the best new cities being St. Louis and Toronto.

Sorry Frank, but the NFL to St. Louis ship has sailed.
It'll never happen.

Never say never, Bub!

We burned way too many bridges.
The NFL does not have a good reputation with civic leaders with how they screwed us over and they aren’t big fans of St. Louis. They have never had a judgement against them that was as large as what they had to pay to STL.

Seriously, do you really think St. Louis would be willing to invest in another stadium? Would the state of Missouri? Keep in mind that the state will be losing the Chiefs shortly.

The state of Missouri just offered something like $1.5B to get the Chiefs to stay in the state. An NFL owner could take a fraction of that and add the unspent part of the St. Louis NFL settlement and fix up the dome to make it like new. No need for a new outdoor stadium. Peer cities like Chicago, Kansas City and Nashville are or will be building domes for their NFL teams. Minneapolis, Indianapolis and Detroit already have domes.

There is no such thing as burned bridges in big business. The NFL will do what is right for the league. STL was a very good NFL city twice before. STL has among the highest TV ratings shares in the US to this day for the NFL. The NFL wants to move to an 18 game regular season schedule, including 16 international games per year. They will probably need more teams to do this.

I'm not saying the NFL will put a team in STL, but it could make sense for everyone.

I agree that greed will typically win the day, and if there's enough money in it, the NFL would move back to STL. But there is absolutely zero chance they would allow a team to move into a renovated dome. These owners want palaces to their own greatness so the plebeians can stare in awe at how rich they are - there's no way a new owner would take a building that Kroenke turned his nose up, even with a billion dollars in renovations.

There's also no way for the owner to monetize the surrounding land around the dome (short of buying up existing properties), which is the new standard in NFL stadiums.

[the miracle]

Definitely depends on the timing of WHEN expansion occurs. Previous NHL expansion rules allowed the protection of 7 forwards, 3 defensmen, 1 goalie. First and second year players were automatically protected, as were unsigned draft picks.

If expansion happened next year, once you eliminate the less than 2 years of service players, I'd almost have a problem coming up with 11 dudes on this team that I'd want to keep / feel are untouchable.
- Dvorsky, Mailloux, Stenberg, and Snuggerud are all protected since they have less than 2 years of service
- Hofer, Holloway, Broberg and Neighbours are the only guys I'd really be upset about losing, and are who I'd protect if I was GM

The only real problem I see for the Blues is this scenario: Expansion occurs 5 years from now. Every one of the Blues prospects currently in the pipeline reaches their ceiling or exceeds it, and every prospect they draft from this point forward is a dud.

I dunno, man. We'll be back-to-back Stanley Cup champs then so losing a good player or two won't seem like such a big deal.

Well, that's a given. . . I was just playing along with the hypothetical question posed by the OP

[somni]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

I hear that Atlanta and Phoenix can support NHL teams. The league needs to take a serious look at both!

Not fair to leave Quebec out. We do love Quebec. Which other team wears the uniforms of the cities they left. It's touching.

Here's the plan. Put an NHL team in Atlanta, then after a few years the team will move to Canada...which would be Quebec.
Source: Atlanta Flames and Atlanta Thrashers

[DawgDad]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

I hear that Atlanta and Phoenix can support NHL teams. The league needs to take a serious look at both!

Not fair to leave Quebec out. We do love Quebec. Which other team wears the uniforms of the cities they left. It's touching.

Here's the plan. Put an NHL team in Atlanta, then after a few years the team will move to Canada...which would be Quebec.
Source: Atlanta Flames and Atlanta Thrashers

Offense taken. The NHL broke trust with fans in the Atlanta Metro area.

How about: Put an NFL team in St. Louis, then after a few years the team will move anywhere it can to get an extra buck. But keep watching, keep betting. The NFL loves your green.

[somni]

The last thing this league needs is more expansion.
When most teams have up to two throw away lines, your league is too watered down.

There is just so defensive first hockey fans to support more players whose best skills isn't with a puck and stick.

I hear that Atlanta and Phoenix can support NHL teams. The league needs to take a serious look at both!

Not fair to leave Quebec out. We do love Quebec. Which other team wears the uniforms of the cities they left. It's touching.

Here's the plan. Put an NHL team in Atlanta, then after a few years the team will move to Canada...which would be Quebec.
Source: Atlanta Flames and Atlanta Thrashers

Offense taken. The NHL broke trust with fans in the Atlanta Metro area.

How about: Put an NFL team in St. Louis, then after a few years the team will move anywhere it can to get an extra buck. But keep watching, keep betting. The NFL loves your green.

Ha...yeah, I was joking.
I mean, they could put an NFL team in STL and move them to the west. Oakland or Portland.
Note, I live in Portland, and NFL is the furthest thing from people's minds. They want a baseball team. And Oakland is well...Oakland.

And yes, NFL is so effin corrupt. It's crazy that tax payers still pay loads of money for stadiums when owners get all the proceeds.

[Russdv14]

He double hockey stick NO to expansion. It’s hard enough to make the playoffs and even harder to win the Stanley Cup so why would we want to water it down and decrease the odds of making the playoffs or winning the Cup.

Some of us were lucky to see the 12 team NHL,
And even though the Blues did not win a Cup game in three times, the first year was all one goal games so there was a lot of excitement there. Had the NHL expanded, say from 6 or 12 to double (24) then we may not have had teams like the Broadstreet bullies in Philly might still be looking for a Cup win as an example.

Bottom line, please no more expansion. We need to get into the playoffs to have a chance of the big reward.

[Bob39]

The reason the NHL would consider Phoenix and Atlanta is very simple. Atlanta is the seventh largest media market in the nation and Phoenix is number 12.


As for watering down the talent, more kids worldwide are playing hockey now than ever. These kids are getting better coaching and better competition at an earlier age. The AHL is full of guys who play entertaining hockey on a nightly basis. You could add several teams and still have a higher talent level in the NHL than you did in 1975 for example.