Basketball recruiting under Gates

[Armchair QB]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

[Luke77]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

lol, you talk like a Final Four is easy to come by. Reminder Mizzou has ZERO, and not sure the guy who had us finish 0-18 in the SEC just two years ago will get our first Final Four.

[11WSChamps]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

[acco40]

Add 2-3 skilled players . . .

In other words if 40% to 60% of the starting line ups are good, we’ll have a good team. Such profundity!

Merry Christmas!

[Armchair QB]

Add 2-3 skilled players . . .

In other words if 40% to 60% of the starting line ups are good, we’ll have a good team. Such profundity!

Merry Christmas!

You being the wordsmith you are, I’m surprised you didn’t read what I typed.

Additional is the key word there.

[Armchair QB]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

lol, you talk like a Final Four is easy to come by. Reminder Mizzou has ZERO, and not sure the guy who had us finish 0-18 in the SEC just two years ago will get our first Final Four.

Luke the point is he can hit the jackpot in 1 recruiting season and have a great year because of the talent he brings in. But then the next season strike out and the team falls back down again. It won’t be consistent year to year. That’s the point.

[Armchair QB]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

[11WSChamps]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

[Armchair QB]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

That’s part of that development piece that’s missing. Gates doesn’t demand players work hard enough to stay in front of the dribble drive and how to defend the high ball screen. It starts in the off season and has to be a part of the fabric of the team. We’re always getting beat off the dribble which leads to help, which leads to a kick to an open 3 point shooter. And we’re always getting picked off on high screens and that leads to help, which leads to someone being open. It’s a vicious cycle.

Some coaches demand and practice those fundamentals. Those coaches, who also recruit talent and coach X’s and O’s well, are called HOF’s. Gates obviously isn’t good at it. It’s always been an issue for his teams.

[Sophrosyne]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

That’s part of that development piece that’s missing. Gates doesn’t demand players work hard enough to stay in front of the dribble drive and how to defend the high ball screen. It starts in the off season and has to be a part of the fabric of the team. We’re always getting beat off the dribble which leads to help, which leads to a kick to an open 3 point shooter. And we’re always getting picked off on high screens and that leads to help, which leads to someone being open. It’s a vicious cycle.

Some coaches demand and practice those fundamentals. Those coaches, who also recruit talent and coach X’s and O’s well, are called HOF’s. Gates obviously isn’t good at it. It’s always been an issue for his teams.

[Sophrosyne]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

That’s part of that development piece that’s missing. Gates doesn’t demand players work hard enough to stay in front of the dribble drive and how to defend the high ball screen. It starts in the off season and has to be a part of the fabric of the team. We’re always getting beat off the dribble which leads to help, which leads to a kick to an open 3 point shooter. And we’re always getting picked off on high screens and that leads to help, which leads to someone being open. It’s a vicious cycle.

Some coaches demand and practice those fundamentals. Those coaches, who also recruit talent and coach X’s and O’s well, are called HOF’s. Gates obviously isn’t good at it. It’s always been an issue for his teams.

Well, I disagree. I think HCDG is a very good recruiter, assembles a good staff, and is a good in-game coach. Here is another way to look at it.

Year One: He turned around the program using Kobe Brown and a bunch of mid-major transfers. The team was exciting, torched some big-name schools which had considerably better players, and went to the NCAA tournament (no sure thing for Mizzou for years).

Year Two: Lost most of the prior team to graduation, and was really left with East and a bunch of transfers. Unfortunately, the two best transfers were hurt and missed too many games. Ultimately, the team didn't fare too well in conference play .

Year Three: The team overachieved in conference play, IMO. Had two really good players, and a bunch of other guys (remember Gray was the center?).

Year Four: ????

Year Five: Some elite recruits have committed, we'll see if they honor commitments.

You can argue that this is extremely positive spin, which is accurate in many respects. The coach's job is to have the requisite talent every year, so when he doesn't, it is certainly on him. But to say HCDG can't coach, can't develop, etc. I would say is inaccurate - see comments above re years 1 and 3 above.

[winonsports]

Add 2-3 skilled players . . .

In other words if 40% to 60% of the starting line ups are good, we’ll have a good team. Such profundity!

Merry Christmas!

Gates is adding four VERY SKILLED players.

BTW, would the opposite of profundity be "it hasn't happened yet, so it won't happen"?

[straight out of st louis robert ave]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

That’s part of that development piece that’s missing. Gates doesn’t demand players work hard enough to stay in front of the dribble drive and how to defend the high ball screen. It starts in the off season and has to be a part of the fabric of the team. We’re always getting beat off the dribble which leads to help, which leads to a kick to an open 3 point shooter. And we’re always getting picked off on high screens and that leads to help, which leads to someone being open. It’s a vicious cycle.

Some coaches demand and practice those fundamentals. Those coaches, who also recruit talent and coach X’s and O’s well, are called HOF’s. Gates obviously isn’t good at it. It’s always been an issue for his teams.

Well, I disagree. I think HCDG is a very good recruiter, assembles a good staff, and is a good in-game coach. Here is another way to look at it.

Year One: He turned around the program using Kobe Brown and a bunch of mid-major transfers. The team was exciting, torched some big-name schools which had considerably better players, and went to the NCAA tournament (no sure thing for Mizzou for years).

Year Two: Lost most of the prior team to graduation, and was really left with East and a bunch of transfers. Unfortunately, the two best transfers were hurt and missed too many games. Ultimately, the team didn't fare too well in conference play .

Year Three: The team overachieved in conference play, IMO. Had two really good players, and a bunch of other guys (remember Gray was the center?).

Year Four: ????

Year Five: Some elite recruits have committed, we'll see if they honor commitments.

You can argue that this is extremely positive spin, which is accurate in many respects. The coach's job is to have the requisite talent every year, so when he doesn't, it is certainly on him. But to say HCDG can't coach, can't develop, etc. I would say is inaccurate - see comments above re years 1 and 3 above.

Year two, Gates brought in John Tonje and Tonje got injured in the summer. I just wonder what his team would have been like if John Tonje was healthy. In addition, Caleb Grill was injured. Just think what the team would be like if Tonje and Grill were healthy. Gates can recruit but he always had bad luck with injuries and he is forced to throw in second string players like Nick Honor. That is when things fall apart for Gates.
This season seems to be the same pattern as year 2. Stone and Pierce are out and he has to play Boateng, TO and Mack.
These players can't shoot threes and just drive to the basket and get their shot blocked. So predictable!
This season will be interesting! I hope there are no more injuries.

[Sophrosyne]

Like everyone else I’ve been pretty frustrated with the season so far. So I spent some time thinking about the why’s behind this.

Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent and is not a good X’s and O’s coach.

So far here, Robinson is the only incoming freshman to be an impact player at any point in their career. Pierce somewhat last year. Barrett and Boateng are playing but that’s about it. Even Robinson doesn’t look like he’s developed physically or in terms of skill. He’s basically the same player he was as a freshman. Beyond these guys it’s been a bunch of misses on freshmen.

His transfer recruiting has been quite a bit better because they come in “developed” and can contribute. But as we’ve seen that’s been very much 50/50. Some really good, some big misses. When you factor that Gates isn’t a good X’s and O’s coach, the talent and skill really needs to be there or it’ll look rough.

Next season, Crowe and Chronister can flat shoot it. If Gates can land 2-3 additional skilled players in the portal next year could look pretty good with what we have returning potentially. But he really needs to figure out development and X’s and O’s. That would help tremendously.

But I don’t see Gates ever being consistent year to year the way he currently does things. I could see him putting together a 1 year team that makes a final 4. But the next year tanking again because he missed in the portal and didn’t develop his freshmen. At some point Mizzou will have to decide if that’s ok.

This program is not going to a final 4 under Gates.

He does a good job on after time out out of bounds sequences on offense but other than that he can't coach X's and O's.

Its been three and a half seasons and its no longer a trend its reality.

We value the three point line on offense but don't defend it on defense which makes no sense to me. We don't play up to our size when we have it and there's still too much one on three drive onto traffic YMCA ball.

Robinson is not noticeably better and I still don't see where Pierce is much of a contributor when he is healthy.

I want Gates to succeed. I predicted when a list of candidates came out that he would be picked before the hiring.

They're predicted to finish in the top half of the conference but I don't see it.

Final 4 is always a stretch, but the point is the major swings from season to season. There is a reason for that.

Unless he learns how to actually develop talent, keep the talent, and coach X’s and O’s he’s going to suffer from major swings year to year.

And the mostly led rah ran media here never asks the questions ad to why we don't guard the 3 point line or rebound for starters.

That’s part of that development piece that’s missing. Gates doesn’t demand players work hard enough to stay in front of the dribble drive and how to defend the high ball screen. It starts in the off season and has to be a part of the fabric of the team. We’re always getting beat off the dribble which leads to help, which leads to a kick to an open 3 point shooter. And we’re always getting picked off on high screens and that leads to help, which leads to someone being open. It’s a vicious cycle.

Some coaches demand and practice those fundamentals. Those coaches, who also recruit talent and coach X’s and O’s well, are called HOF’s. Gates obviously isn’t good at it. It’s always been an issue for his teams.

Well, I disagree. I think HCDG is a very good recruiter, assembles a good staff, and is a good in-game coach. Here is another way to look at it.

Year One: He turned around the program using Kobe Brown and a bunch of mid-major transfers. The team was exciting, torched some big-name schools which had considerably better players, and went to the NCAA tournament (no sure thing for Mizzou for years).

Year Two: Lost most of the prior team to graduation, and was really left with East and a bunch of transfers. Unfortunately, the two best transfers were hurt and missed too many games. Ultimately, the team didn't fare too well in conference play .

Year Three: The team overachieved in conference play, IMO. Had two really good players, and a bunch of other guys (remember Gray was the center?).

Year Four: ????

Year Five: Some elite recruits have committed, we'll see if they honor commitments.

You can argue that this is extremely positive spin, which is accurate in many respects. The coach's job is to have the requisite talent every year, so when he doesn't, it is certainly on him. But to say HCDG can't coach, can't develop, etc. I would say is inaccurate - see comments above re years 1 and 3 above.

Year two, Gates brought in John Tonje and Tonje got injured in the summer. I just wonder what his team would have been like if John Tonje was healthy. In addition, Caleb Grill was injured. Just think what the team would be like if Tonje and Grill were healthy. Gates can recruit but he always had bad luck with injuries and he is forced to throw in second string players like Nick Honor. That is when things fall apart for Gates.
This season seems to be the same pattern as year 2. Stone and Pierce are out and he has to play Boateng, TO and Mack.
These players can't shoot threes and just drive to the basket and get their shot blocked. So predictable!
This season will be interesting! I hope there are no more injuries.

Agree. When I watch the games, I think:
-Boateng is a great athlete, too bad he isn't particularly good at basketball
-Mack is energetic and goes to the hole. He has a decent mid-range game, but can't carry the offense.
-I still have hope for TO. He does a bunch of point guard stuff really well. He needs to dish once he drives unless his shot is completely open.

[acco40]

Add 2-3 skilled players . . .

In other words if 40% to 60% of the starting line ups are good, we’ll have a good team. Such profundity!

Merry Christmas!

Gates is adding four VERY SKILLED players.

BTW, would the opposite of profundity be "it hasn't happened yet, so it won't happen"?

I'm not making a judgment on Gates or the players, I'm making a judgment on posters. Of course if we add 40% to 60% of skilled players to the line up Mizzou will have a good team. I'm quoting someone so the debate isn't about the number of players.

Another example: Pretty simple: Gates can recruit TALENT. But he is horrible at developing that talent.

Talent doesn't have to be developed, a good coach will develop potential into talent.

Now, one can debate if a mediocre player has or does not have potential - that is does he have potential that isn't being developed (either by the player, the coaching staff or both) or does he simply have no potential.

Now shifting gears, Mizzou gives a lot of playing time to quite a few players. He doesn't heavily rely on only six or seven players. Against Florida, 11 players had six or more minutes of playing time.

[dhsux]

The "talented players" have to have a mindset to not just fully apply themselves but to be coach-able...be more than just willing to learn and be coached up.

Now a 5 star is a five star so you grab him......but that doesn't mean that player is an automatic anything. You can bank more than half of them coming in need to learn defense.

This whole board is pretty frustrated right now......even after their last great win. Lots of good commentary but this team and coach would have zero wins if it were all true.