CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
2025 (Est.): $6.7M (Projected)
2024 (Est.): $57M
2023 (Est.): $43M
2022 (Est.): -$34M
2021 (Est.): -$79M (COVID-impacted)
2020 (Est.): $72M (Also likely impacted by pandemic)
2019 (Est.): $65M
2018 (Est.): $40M
2017 (Est.): $41M
2016 (Est.): $59.8M
Take out the 2 anomaly Covid years and then BDW running off fans and it’s more like 54mil avg
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
And of course this is the same for all 30 teams on this list. Somehow Cranny wants you to believe that whatever argument he’s attempting to make does not apply to the other teams and that the number in the Operating Income column showing the Yanks, Mets, Dodgers being much lower than Cards is insignificant.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
And of course this is the same for all 30 teams on this list. Somehow Cranny wants you to believe that whatever argument he’s attempting to make does not apply to the other teams and that the number in the Operating Income column showing the Yanks, Mets, Dodgers being much lower than Cards is insignificant.
I can't argue with finances, but I have always believed the Cardinals could afford to do more and they may have always been a little more interested in bigger profits. Just my opinion.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
Cranny, if I’m reading this correctly…..Forbes Operating Income is Calculated AFTER STADIUM DEBT SERVICE AND REVENUE SHARING.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
Your numbers sound ludicrous. If a team had a margin of only 27 million dollars then any team that signed a high priced free agent would be losing money. Preposterous.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
Again, from an accounting standpoint, operating income and EBITDA are different. Operating income is after deducting depreciation and amortization, and before deducting interest and taxes. I'm not "defending the Cardinals", I'm just looking at it from an accounting standpoint. What is the total debt service, including principal and interest? The members of the LLC also share in the profits (and losses), pro rata. If the members have a tax liability, the LLC generally pays that. Take
principal, interest, and paying the member's tax liability away from operating profit and you have a clearer picture.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
Again, from an accounting standpoint, operating income and EBITDA are different. Operating income is after deducting depreciation and amortization, and before deducting interest and taxes. I'm not "defending the Cardinals", I'm just looking at it from an accounting standpoint. What is the total debt service, including principal and interest? The members of the LLC also share in the profits (and losses), pro rata. If the members have a tax liability, the LLC generally pays that. Take
principal, interest, and paying the member's tax liability away from operating profit and you have a clearer picture.
Cranny, if I’m reading this correctly…..Forbes Operating Income is Calculated AFTER STADIUM DEBT SERVICE AND REVENUE SHARING.
Cranny wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 17:39 pm
One thing about Arby's - other chains have introduced roast beef sandwiches, which has hurt Arby's.
It's called COMPETITION cranny
And let's be fair
ARBY's has now introduced:
-ANGUS steak and an Italian Dip
to go along w/turkey, brisket, corned beef, chicken, ham, and gyro meat!
Absolutely, but when they diversify products, they lose their uniqueness and all seem to blend together.
If I can get a roast beef sandwich at "X' restaurant and I'm used to going there for a hamburger, why go to
Arby's?
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
Again, from an accounting standpoint, operating income and EBITDA are different. Operating income is after deducting depreciation and amortization, and before deducting interest and taxes. I'm not "defending the Cardinals", I'm just looking at it from an accounting standpoint. What is the total debt service, including principal and interest? The members of the LLC also share in the profits (and losses), pro rata. If the members have a tax liability, the LLC generally pays that. Take
principal, interest, and paying the member's tax liability away from operating profit and you have a clearer picture.
Cranny, if I’m reading this correctly…..Forbes Operating Income is Calculated AFTER STADIUM DEBT SERVICE AND REVENUE SHARING.
Key Points of the Forbes Methodology:
Operating Income Definition: Forbes defines operating income as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization (EBITDA).
Stadium Debt Service: Any portion of a team's revenue generated from the stadium (e.g., ticket sales, concessions) that is contractually obligated to pay off stadium debt is subtracted from the reported revenue and, consequently, the operating income.
Debt is excluded from valuation: The final team value itself (an enterprise value) is based on a multiple of revenue and includes the economics of the stadium, but it is calculated without a direct deduction for the total amount of debt the team carries (other than the specific revenue offset mentioned above).
Cranny wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 17:39 pm
One thing about Arby's - other chains have introduced roast beef sandwiches, which has hurt Arby's.
It's called COMPETITION cranny
And let's be fair
ARBY's has now introduced:
-ANGUS steak and an Italian Dip
to go along w/turkey, brisket, corned beef, chicken, ham, and gyro meat!
Absolutely, but when they diversify products, they lose their uniqueness and all seem to blend together.
If I can get a roast beef sandwich at "X' restaurant and I'm used to going there for a hamburger, why go to
Arby's?
I agree. Years ago, we would always stop at the one on Lindell Blvd. That may have been the first in the St. Louis area.
CCard wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 06:25 am
Operating costs do not equal profit. That's ridiculous. A while back I posted an article from Forbes that showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars. That profit, not operating expenses. With a payroll at the time that was about 175 million. Deduct the operating costs from the profit and still it looks pretty good. Now they've cut payroll to the bone. Will people come out to watch these guys? I won't. That being said, unless you have a 401k, this economy is killing you. Everything has gone up and continues to go up. I'd expect attendance to be down no matter what.
It's operating income. Operating income is, roughly, profits.
The Cardinals' operating revenue is about $350 million.
As I said.
You said, "...showed the Cards profit of around 350 million dollars." There is no "profit" of $350 million.
Operating income/profit = revenue - expenses
The Forbes data shows the Cardinals average operating income/profit over a decade at $27 million per year.
There is no such thing as "operating income/profit". If you want to know what money is available for salary increases you need to deduct interest, principal, and money to cover members tax liabilities from operating income.
“On Forbes' sports franchise lists, Operating Income means Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization (EBITDA), representing a team's core profit before these non-cash expenses and financing costs, calculated after stadium debt service and revenue sharing, but including stadium-related revenues like concerts. “
Again, from an accounting standpoint, operating income and EBITDA are different. Operating income is after deducting depreciation and amortization, and before deducting interest and taxes. I'm not "defending the Cardinals", I'm just looking at it from an accounting standpoint. What is the total debt service, including principal and interest? The members of the LLC also share in the profits (and losses), pro rata. If the members have a tax liability, the LLC generally pays that. Take
principal, interest, and paying the member's tax liability away from operating profit and you have a clearer picture.
Cranny, if I’m reading this correctly…..Forbes Operating Income is Calculated AFTER STADIUM DEBT SERVICE AND REVENUE SHARING.
Key Points of the Forbes Methodology:
Operating Income Definition: Forbes defines operating income as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization (EBITDA).
Stadium Debt Service: Any portion of a team's revenue generated from the stadium (e.g., ticket sales, concessions) that is contractually obligated to pay off stadium debt is subtracted from the reported revenue and, consequently, the operating income.
Debt is excluded from valuation: The final team value itself (an enterprise value) is based on a multiple of revenue and includes the economics of the stadium, but it is calculated without a direct deduction for the total amount of debt the team carries (other than the specific revenue offset mentioned above).
So this long standing argument you insert everytime this issue presents itself…..Stadium Debt Service….is processed BEFORE REVENUE # and OPERATING INCOME…..so don’t spend any more time worrying about Prime, Prime +1, +2….
imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑02 Jan 2026 14:45 pm
I find this all quite ironic.
He lost the Cardinals because he was old-school stubborn and myopic.
And a major fast food chain investment that lost its myopic way as well (sales down 8% last year, and losing customers fast).
Sound familiar?
Adapt or die, old man.
Correct.
In business, an organization is growing or it is dying.
There is no middle ground, there is no treading water.
That is the reality.
Makes zero difference if the business is making roast beef sandwiches or selling tickets to baseball games.
Right now, his baseball team is "dying" as a business.
We shall see if DeWitt has the interest and mental acuity required to turn it around.
If he doesn't, chances are good the team will have a new oner within the next couple of years.
