Pirates ahead of us

[Bomber1]

This whole discussion is weird to me. There are people who are scared to death that we are going to start operating as the Pirates have done for a long time. There are those who seem outraged, or some in denial, that the Pirates may currently be better than the Cardinals. Many seem upset that the Cardinals have taken a new (and unfamiliar) approach going forward. Folks, we didn't just wake up this offseason with the Pirates being better than the Cardinals. That has been 10 years in the making. Our stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance have led us here. The fact that there is even a discussion about which team is better represents a problem. The key question is; what will they do about it? We may not agree with all the actions taken, but I for one am glad that they seem to see a problem and have mapped out a path forward. It is my personal belief that the Pirates are better than the Cardinals today, but I don't believe that will remain so going forward.

When you operate in stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance for any period of time there is a harvest to reap for that. This is what we are seeing. Let's not blame the cleaning crew for the mess.

Good post!

[AtillaTheBlue1]

they have been drafting top 10 talent for a decade, and got themselves a once in a decade starter in draft.


they should be way ahead, but they arent. they cannot produce hitters to save their life


they should be stacked at every position with all of those top end picks.

[sikeston bulldog2]

This whole discussion is weird to me. There are people who are scared to death that we are going to start operating as the Pirates have done for a long time. There are those who seem outraged, or some in denial, that the Pirates may currently be better than the Cardinals. Many seem upset that the Cardinals have taken a new (and unfamiliar) approach going forward. Folks, we didn't just wake up this offseason with the Pirates being better than the Cardinals. That has been 10 years in the making. Our stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance have led us here. The fact that there is even a discussion about which team is better represents a problem. The key question is; what will they do about it? We may not agree with all the actions taken, but I for one am glad that they seem to see a problem and have mapped out a path forward. It is my personal belief that the Pirates are better than the Cardinals today, but I don't believe that will remain so going forward.

When you operate in stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance for any period of time there is a harvest to reap for that. This is what we are seeing. Let's not blame the cleaning crew for the mess.

Good post!

We got into a deeper than normal rut. The normal template to get out of said rut was not sufficient. Needed a bigger better template. That’s what you are seeing. The building of the perfect beast.

[mattmitchl44]

The Pirates finished ahead of the Cardinals as recently as 2023. So it's not like it is that much of a surprise that it could happen.

2026 is moot, other than for the development players on the Cardinals roster.

[Goldfan]

Goldfan creating new math, learning it on the fly, all while pretending the Cardinals didn’t lose any value on their equity in the bankruptcy… is amazing mental gymnastics to watch.

By the way, Main Street Sports Group also looks insolvent (hence the missed rights holder payment) and they are desperately trying to sell a majority stake to London based sports streaming company, DAZN… and if they don’t, they’re likely shutting down. Either way, it puts the 2026 Cards rights in flux, again, and at a more distressed revenue number.

But sure, pretend none of that is happening and that the team magically emerged from that bankruptcy unscathed with their equity position intact… whatever floats your boat.

I simply posted the latest publicly available info and you’re attributing it to me??
I’m also making up that MLB national TV contract pays out 90=100mil to each team and that in ‘25 the Cardinals made a huge 13mil less than the Braves from local TV contract? So what new math am I creating??
I will do a little daydreaming along with you…..I don’t think MLB will let one their Crown Jewels lose their rights contract. Do you think MLB teams are out on their own little financial island? Or are they part of an integrated system reliant on each other

2025 is meaningless considering we’re talking about revenue streams going forward. I don’t know why you’re hyper focused on a year in the past.

Cards local TV Rev
‘23
71mil
‘24
73mil
‘25
58mil

Paid……if you know they won’t be paid going forward please post those details

Like… dude… that’s THE WHOLE F’N POINT! They have no idea what they’re getting going forward. THAT is the uncertainty. Their certain revenue stream that was contracted through 2032 is gone.

How do you not understand this?! Good lord, man.

This is why I made the comment to ecleme earlier that you just lack any semblance of an understanding of the economics. He’s intentionally dishonest. I think you just have no idea what you’re talking about.

So you’re moving forward like the number will be 0…..does that seem remotely realistic? If you have the ‘26,’27,’28 local TV revenue number please post.

“The Cardinals may have to take the route that clubs like the Mariners, Padres, Rockies, Twins, Guardians, and Diamondbacks have and fold into the MLB's media group, or perhaps another bidder will see an opportunity here and swoop in to acquire the Cardinals' television and streaming rights for the near future. The future of MLB's regional sports network strategy and overall media packages will be a major topic in the upcoming collective bargaining agreement.”
The last sentence sure is interesting…….

Nothing like a few bankruptcies to spur SHARING

[An Old Friend]

So you’re moving forward like the number will be 0…..does that seem remotely realistic?

Straw man alert!!

Funny how that happens when your talking points have been decimated because you’re arguing out of your butthole.

No, no one assumes it’s zero. Jeeeezus.

If you have the ‘26,’27,’28 local TV revenue number please post.

Everyone knows that no one knows the numbers… again, that’s the whole point - it’s uncertain.

Bye.

[Cusecards]

they have been drafting top 10 talent for a decade, and got themselves a once in a decade starter in draft.


they should be way ahead, but they arent. they cannot produce hitters to save their life


they should be stacked at every position with all of those top end picks.

Good point!

[11WSChamps]

So how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

It’s not a rebuild.

I wish people would understand this.

I understand better than you.

It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.

If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.

They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.

I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.

As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.

These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.

Then why are you arguing with me, jackhole? I'm saying the same (drat) thing, that the revenue streams have been shot, and that they're going to a small market model because of it.

It sure seems you're saying that, too, but calling me an idiot.

Why? Honest question.

You responded to me first Einstein not the other way around. I was discussing with Ozzie.

You didn’t answer the question.

Not that it will make any difference because you always have to have the last word but my previous post history says nothing about agreeing to how the organization has been run in recent years and now we're on baseball's skid row .

My response to you had to do with jumping into a discussion where I used the word rebuild and you may have assumed I was on board with what's going on.

This is the St. Louis Cardinals and not Tampa Bay or the Pirates, Brewers, or for Christ sake Cleveland.

This fan base deserves better.

[An Old Friend]

So how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

It’s not a rebuild.

I wish people would understand this.

I understand better than you.

It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.

If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.

They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.

I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.

As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.

These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.

Then why are you arguing with me, jackhole? I'm saying the same (drat) thing, that the revenue streams have been shot, and that they're going to a small market model because of it.

It sure seems you're saying that, too, but calling me an idiot.

Why? Honest question.

You responded to me first Einstein not the other way around. I was discussing with Ozzie.

You didn’t answer the question.

Not that it will make any difference because you always have to have the last word but my previous post history says nothing about agreeing to how the organization has been run in recent years and now we're on baseball's skid row .

My response to you had to do with jumping into a discussion where I used the word rebuild and you may have assumed I was on board with what's going on.

This is the St. Louis Cardinals and not Tampa Bay or the Pirates, Brewers, or for Christ sake Cleveland.

This fan base deserves better.

Thanks, we agree. See? Not so bad.

[Goldfan]

So you’re moving forward like the number will be 0…..does that seem remotely realistic?

Straw man alert!!

Funny how that happens when your talking points have been decimated because you’re arguing out of your butthole.

No, no one assumes it’s zero. Jeeeezus.

If you have the ‘26,’27,’28 local TV revenue number please post.

Everyone knows that no one knows the numbers… again, that’s the whole point - it’s uncertain.

Bye.

AOF argument:
Everyone knows Stl is a small market now. They must act like Clev., TB, Mil
-Actully no one knows what the Local TV revenue will be. I posted the number we do KNOW. And while lower isn’t a LARGE number

Cards lost their 30% equity stake in Diamond
-Actually no, it wasn’t part of the bankruptcy and still retain 30% with greater control.

Game Revenue and National TV distributions are a much larger portion of the entire Cards annual revenue take with local TV being the smallest.
But somehow a number that is 13mil lower than the Braves and 17mil lower than the original contract…..somehow reduces BDW ability to field a 180mil payroll to probably under 100mil…. Now that is interesting math

Where BDW shot himself in the foot was losing 25K paying customers for 81 home games fielding a talentless, unexciting, uninteresting, uncompetitive MLB team and now insisting he has no money because those 25K fans will no longer pay for it.

And pay very close attention to this Regional bankruptcy malaise occurring right before the CBA. What better negotiating power the medium/smaller regional markets have than claiming their rights bounty has magically evaporated. I expect a sharing outcome that will substantially benefit the collective. But if you want to keep claiming Stl is now Pitt, Cincy, Miami, I’m sure BDW appreciates your effort.