mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
The Pirates will finish ahead of the Cardinals in 2026.
I was right on the money trending the Cardinals down toward the Pirates last season and I'll be right on this coming season.
jccarlson wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:55 pm
The pirates are definitely making better deals than we are. With our "someday in the future" approach, how many years will the Bucs be ahead of us in the final standings of the year?
To be fair, they HAVE to spend now while they have Skenes on the cheap. Their window is very narrow.
This. Their chips all have to be pushed in the pot now. Whatever they do, it will be over by the end of 28 when Paul is free. He may be too expensive for them before that.
They also lived in their "someday in the future" phase for quite a while, and now get to see the fruits. Skenes being one of them.
If the Pirates fruits when all the stars align 1 year out of 20 are rising From last to 4th or 3rd place, I’d say no thanks. Move the team.
Hey kudos to the pirates they still won’t make post season if they finish ahead of cards? They won’t cards will finish over them people think the offseason is over already and are crying and whining already it’s absurd. Laughable. The doom and gloomers whiners and complainers who did all the sniveling and ranting and raving and bawling during
This offseason at the end of next season will just say I was wrong and I’m happy to eat crow as if all the constant whining will be erased by that lol
Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:31 pm
Plus, if they want any chance of keeping Skenes, they have to show him that they are willing to go the extra mile to have the best team possible. It’s commendable that they have made the efforts they have in trading for Lowe and signing O’Hearn. There already have been rumblings about his pitching and the lack of run support he receives.
Honestly, the only way that Skenes remains a Pirate through FA is if he takes a team friendly deal and the Pirates seem to be trying to make him as happy as possible.
If I were the Pirates, I wouldn't make myself a slave to Skenes. Do your level best to put together a good team. Do your level best to make a good contract offer and do it early. If you don't think you can re-sign him, trade him with 2 years left on his team control. Look at Tarik Skubal as an object lesson. The Tigers are, and will continue, to mess it up. They aren't going to fortify their team, or re-sign him. They are getting a draft pick. Think of the haul they could have had last offseason, or even this offseason with 1 year remaining. Whiff!
Disagree. Generational ace, they gotta take a shot at it while they have him.
Well then they better get to adding so they can make the most of it. I think the Royals have just as good a chance as anyone for that division.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Pirates will be better.
How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Pirates will be better.
How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.
But we’ll see if they take over STL
They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
They have 2026 after that Skenes is A1 and most of their teams is in A1-3. They will trade him before 2028 he and the team will be too expensive for the Pirates.
Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:31 pm
Plus, if they want any chance of keeping Skenes, they have to show him that they are willing to go the extra mile to have the best team possible. It’s commendable that they have made the efforts they have in trading for Lowe and signing O’Hearn. There already have been rumblings about his pitching and the lack of run support he receives.
Honestly, the only way that Skenes remains a Pirate through FA is if he takes a team friendly deal and the Pirates seem to be trying to make him as happy as possible.
If I were the Pirates, I wouldn't make myself a slave to Skenes. Do your level best to put together a good team. Do your level best to make a good contract offer and do it early. If you don't think you can re-sign him, trade him with 2 years left on his team control. Look at Tarik Skubal as an object lesson. The Tigers are, and will continue, to mess it up. They aren't going to fortify their team, or re-sign him. They are getting a draft pick. Think of the haul they could have had last offseason, or even this offseason with 1 year remaining. Whiff!
Disagree. Generational ace, they gotta take a shot at it while they have him.
Well then they better get to adding so they can make the most of it. I think the Royals have just as good a chance as anyone for that division.
The Royals are in the AL Central.
Well I assumed you were talkin about the Tigers, my bad
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Lowe, O’Hearn, and Mangum are likely closer to 6-7 wins.
Replacing Falter, Heaney, and Burrows in the rotation with Ashcroft, Mlodzinksi, and Chandler could be another 6-7. Keller bouncing back to the 2-3 WAR mark gets another 1.
Skenes could be a 9 WAR pitcher if they stretch him towards 210 IP.
Their Pythagorean W/L was 74–88. With all that above, and maybe some slight improvements from Oneil Cruz… they could easily be an 87-90 win team. And they happen to have arguably the top prospect in baseball, Konnor Griffin, who could force his way to the majors really quickly.
jccarlson wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:55 pm
The pirates are definitely making better deals than we are. With our "someday in the future" approach, how many years will the Bucs be ahead of us in the final standings of the year?
The Pirates suck a fat one and are nothing we should be striving to be. A total loser that should be frowned upon as a model. They suck! But yeah, maybe better than the Cards now.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Pirates will be better.
How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.
But we’ll see if they take over STL
They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating
They have a plan and a core emerging. They are grabbing some solid complimentary pieces - Lowe, O'Hearn, Garcia, Soto, etc
Cardinals will do the same once their core starts emerging - JJ, Doyle, Mathews, etc. They need to acquire more pieces and grow the system for a couple more years IMO.
I feel no need to compare STL to PIT. Short term rankings versus who is likely to win another WS is where I sit. And unless the leagues new contract makes a massive step in revenue sharing I predict STL will be back in a WS way before PIT.
The difference is stark. Once this rebuild is in swing 1-2 years from now and there are some exciting players to watch the fans will come back and STL will have more money than PIT again.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Pirates will be better.
How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.
But we’ll see if they take over STL
They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating
Debating if it's Pirates/Cardinals or Cardinals/Pirates is like debating whether Titanic sank because of the iceberg or a brittle hull. It sank anyway!
4th or 5th in the NLC is no accomplishment. Try selling increased-price tickets either way. Need lots of Bobbleheads or promotional giveaways every game.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm
The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.
Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?
They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.
Pirates will be better.
How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.
But we’ll see if they take over STL
They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating
You're going to be wrong.
Nah I won’t be wrong
Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .
No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.
The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.
