ESPN analysis of Contreras trade

[Cardinals1964]

Get ready for the losing. It's coming.

I keep seeing people say that this team will be better than some think and in the 75 to 80 win range. I would love to know what they see that has them this positive.

I see a 95 to 100 loss team. This doesn’t mean that I feel the rebuild is the wrong direction (as I mentioned before I completely disagree with how Mo and DeWitt messed up this franchise, but they left it no realistic path to get back to winning that doesn’t involve a rebuild).

Instead of cutting (gutting) payroll, if they had added a couple of pieces they would be in contention for the playoffs. But you're right, now this team is in danger of losing big. Minor league pitchers most likely won't carry this team and they just traded away 20 home runs and probably their best hitter. Yeah, it's going to get ugly unless some young people really step up.

Competing to try to sneak into the playoffs is the wrong direction. I watched them try that over and over again. They need to build a team that can go deep into the playoffs.

It’s time to stop with the putting a mediocre product on the field hoping to go on a magical run. There were no couple pieces which were going to fix this unless DeWitt put a serious infusion of cash into payroll to compete at the top of the free agent class. And even at that the Mets showed that doesn’t always work.

You can build whatever team you want and once in the playoffs they can be bounced by a lesser team. The Cards weren't favored in any of their recent WS champion years. There are enough good players out there to make the Cards competitive, but they won't play for free. Competitive doesn't mean only on the field, you have to be competitive off the field too.

Who would you like to see them sign that would make them competitive in 2026?

There's any number of free agent pitchers that would be much better than Mikolas or Pallante was. Other teams sign them, why can't the Cards? Instead they go for the low hanging fruit. Lynn at the end of his rope and Gibson and the end of his rope and Fedde who didn't have a lot of ropt to begin with. Take that money they wasted and get a decent to really good pitcher. You might have to kick in a few more bucks but then you give your team a fighting chance in a short series. As for hitting, there's people out there that are better than anyone in the outfiel and now in the infield also.

So you don’t have anybody in mind. If you don’t like who Bloom traded for or signed, who do you like. I need names.

Do your own research jack. Go to google and type in current list of free agents.

I know who the free agents are. Since you stated that there were free agents out there that they could go get, I figured you would have somebody in mind. Obviously you don’t so your whole point is moot.

[Cardinals4Life]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

[ecleme22]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

[Cardinals4Life]

Get ready for the losing. It's coming.

I keep seeing people say that this team will be better than some think and in the 75 to 80 win range. I would love to know what they see that has them this positive.

I see a 95 to 100 loss team. This doesn’t mean that I feel the rebuild is the wrong direction (as I mentioned before I completely disagree with how Mo and DeWitt messed up this franchise, but they left it no realistic path to get back to winning that doesn’t involve a rebuild).

Instead of cutting (gutting) payroll, if they had added a couple of pieces they would be in contention for the playoffs. But you're right, now this team is in danger of losing big. Minor league pitchers most likely won't carry this team and they just traded away 20 home runs and probably their best hitter. Yeah, it's going to get ugly unless some young people really step up.

Competing to try to sneak into the playoffs is the wrong direction. I watched them try that over and over again. They need to build a team that can go deep into the playoffs.

It’s time to stop with the putting a mediocre product on the field hoping to go on a magical run. There were no couple pieces which were going to fix this unless DeWitt put a serious infusion of cash into payroll to compete at the top of the free agent class. And even at that the Mets showed that doesn’t always work.

You can build whatever team you want and once in the playoffs they can be bounced by a lesser team. The Cards weren't favored in any of their recent WS champion years. There are enough good players out there to make the Cards competitive, but they won't play for free. Competitive doesn't mean only on the field, you have to be competitive off the field too.

Who would you like to see them sign that would make them competitive in 2026?

There's any number of free agent pitchers that would be much better than Mikolas or Pallante was. Other teams sign them, why can't the Cards? Instead they go for the low hanging fruit. Lynn at the end of his rope and Gibson and the end of his rope and Fedde who didn't have a lot of ropt to begin with. Take that money they wasted and get a decent to really good pitcher. You might have to kick in a few more bucks but then you give your team a fighting chance in a short series. As for hitting, there's people out there that are better than anyone in the outfiel and now in the infield also.

So you don’t have anybody in mind. If you don’t like who Bloom traded for or signed, who do you like. I need names.

Do your own research jack. Go to google and type in current list of free agents.

I know who the free agents are. Since you stated that there were free agents out there that they could go get, I figured you would have somebody in mind. Obviously you don’t so your whole point is moot.

I understand the plan, but I actually agree with CCard. Cardinals have been a mediocre (.500 give or take) the past 3 seasons. It is VERY possible to take a .500 team and make them competitive and much improved in 1 offseason. The Cardinals ownership chose not to, because they are too cheap. Bottom line.

People keep saying we'll we tried to just do enough to sneak and and be competitive the past few years. But that's simply not true. They didn't do ANYTHING to try and sneak into the playoffs. MO did nothing to help this team succeed. We had several pieces in place (I mean look at the pieces people are wanting from the Cards this offseason), but NEVER did enough to finish the team. They just refused to.

You want names? Here is a hypothetical:

2B - Wetherholt
SS - Winn
1B - Contreras
3B - Eugenio Suarez
LF - Burleson
CF - Scott II
RF - Bellinger
C - Herrera
DH - Gorman
Utility - Saggese
Bench - Saggese, Church, Crooks, Fermin

Rotation:
Framber Valdez
Gray
Liberatore
Trade Donovan for this piece (Bryce Miller??)
McGreevy

Pen: O'Brien, Svanson, Romero, Leahy, Granillo, Graceffo, Pushard, Schuster?

We've traded Donovan, Nootbaar, Arenado, and Pages.
Additions: Valdez, Bellinger, and Suarez.

Lineup:

Wetherholt
Bellinger
Herrera
Suarez
Burleson
Conteras
Gorman
Winn
Scott II


Now before you say oh, that's not realistic, think about our payroll. Thise guys could fit into a 180M budget, which is COMPLETELY REASONABLE for the STL CARDINALS.

Now obviously they had no intention of this, but this could definitely have been done and this team is a playoff team, no doubt. Cards just lacked the will (financial will) to do so.

Hope that answers your question for CCard.
Again, obviously they aren't doing this, and I understand what they are doing, but I just wanted to show that it WAS POSSIBLE this offseason. Honestly, picking up 2 of the 3 from that list would've made them a playoff team.

[Cardinals4Life]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

[ecleme22]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

[An Old Friend]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

[ecleme22]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

[An Old Friend]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

[ecleme22]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

Nah, horrible idea.

[Ozziesfan41]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

I get it but I just don’t cease choosing to sign with the rebuilding cardinals over the blue jays who were in game 7 of the World Series last season

[Cardinals4Life]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

I get it but I just don’t cease choosing to sign with the rebuilding cardinals over the blue jays who were in game 7 of the World Series last season

I'm not necessarily saying they should've got Cease, but we can't always say "why would they choose the Cardinals?" MONEY almost always wins.

[An Old Friend]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

Nah, horrible idea.

You’re right, teams don’t need top of the rotation pitching. Good call.

[An Old Friend]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

I get it but I just don’t cease choosing to sign with the rebuilding cardinals over the blue jays who were in game 7 of the World Series last season

My broader point is less about Cease and more about this idea that they can just pick a year to spend when they’re ready to contend. That leads to bad decisions - you can’t end up overpaying in a weak market with no front line pitching available.

Not bidding on a guy with the mentality of “why would he choose St Louis”… this self elimination without participation is not a winning strategy.

[ecleme22]

It will be a lot more interesting to watch than the past three years

How so?

New blood, young guys hopefully thriving.

What new guys? Dobbins, May, and Fitts?
I appreciate the hopefulness of watching young guys grow, but I've been watching most of them grow the past couple years and it is hard to stomach. If I want to watch guys grow, I will watch Minor League Baseball - that's what it is supposed to be for, not the MLB.

I am not looking forward to watching losing baseball once again.

For me, Dobbins and a more seasoned Libby and McGreevy make the season interesting. Along with no Miko and Pallante. I am intrigued by May and Fitts, along with our minor league starters taking the next step.

Ppl on here are making way too much of a big deal losing Grazy.

I just wish they would’ve made these moves AND tried to add Cease.

I’m optimistic that Liberatore and McGreevy can carry a strong innings load. They could use a bit more certainty.

That’s not really realistic. Cease signed a 210 mil contract that would pay him until 37 years old. That isn’t the type of deal the cards should be making NOW.

Another FA starter would be nice. Or a swingman. Or maybe they feel some of the AAA will be ready.

You can’t time the market for front line pitching. And signing Cease now would’ve actually made this team competitive in the Central which they’ve stated as a goal.

They could have and should have taken a swing, just like they should have when guys like Wheeler and Gausman hit the market.

Nah, horrible idea.

You’re right, teams don’t need top of the rotation pitching. Good call.

No, you’re right. Cease will be the last TOR starter available in baseball history.

[CCard]

Get ready for the losing. It's coming.

I keep seeing people say that this team will be better than some think and in the 75 to 80 win range. I would love to know what they see that has them this positive.

I see a 95 to 100 loss team. This doesn’t mean that I feel the rebuild is the wrong direction (as I mentioned before I completely disagree with how Mo and DeWitt messed up this franchise, but they left it no realistic path to get back to winning that doesn’t involve a rebuild).

Instead of cutting (gutting) payroll, if they had added a couple of pieces they would be in contention for the playoffs. But you're right, now this team is in danger of losing big. Minor league pitchers most likely won't carry this team and they just traded away 20 home runs and probably their best hitter. Yeah, it's going to get ugly unless some young people really step up.

Competing to try to sneak into the playoffs is the wrong direction. I watched them try that over and over again. They need to build a team that can go deep into the playoffs.

It’s time to stop with the putting a mediocre product on the field hoping to go on a magical run. There were no couple pieces which were going to fix this unless DeWitt put a serious infusion of cash into payroll to compete at the top of the free agent class. And even at that the Mets showed that doesn’t always work.

You can build whatever team you want and once in the playoffs they can be bounced by a lesser team. The Cards weren't favored in any of their recent WS champion years. There are enough good players out there to make the Cards competitive, but they won't play for free. Competitive doesn't mean only on the field, you have to be competitive off the field too.

Who would you like to see them sign that would make them competitive in 2026?

There's any number of free agent pitchers that would be much better than Mikolas or Pallante was. Other teams sign them, why can't the Cards? Instead they go for the low hanging fruit. Lynn at the end of his rope and Gibson and the end of his rope and Fedde who didn't have a lot of ropt to begin with. Take that money they wasted and get a decent to really good pitcher. You might have to kick in a few more bucks but then you give your team a fighting chance in a short series. As for hitting, there's people out there that are better than anyone in the outfiel and now in the infield also.

So you don’t have anybody in mind. If you don’t like who Bloom traded for or signed, who do you like. I need names.

Do your own research jack. Go to google and type in current list of free agents.

I know who the free agents are. Since you stated that there were free agents out there that they could go get, I figured you would have somebody in mind. Obviously you don’t so your whole point is moot.

Only in your small mind. If you would look then you would see that there are many free agents that would really help the Cards, but no, you want to kiss Dewitts....er...ring.