Well...If they can move the Chiefs....Goodbye Cardinals

[60 year Cardinal fan]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

No. There was never an historically deadly border war between Chestfield and STL.

I think we can move on from the Civil War at this point don’t you think? Not only is nobody on earth alive from when that happened, I guarantee you don’t know anybody who knew anybody that was alive then.

Well I do. My Grandfather was born in 1862 and died when I was four.

[Bomber1]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

No. There was never an historically deadly border war between Chestfield and STL.

I think we can move on from the Civil War at this point don’t you think? Not only is nobody on earth alive from when that happened, I guarantee you don’t know anybody who knew anybody that was alive then.

Oh come on that challenge is easy. My grandparents were born between 1906 and 1910. There grandparent were born before the civil war started. So there are tons of people around who knew people who knew people that were alive then. When I was in college, our fraternity house cook was a soldier in WWI. He was really old and hated a lot of people because of what happened to him during that war and the aftermath. Yes, that history was a long time ago, but, as we get older, a few generations can span a lot of history.

I don't think the Cardinals are moving. I have mixed feelings about the Chiefs moving. There is some prestige to our state to have a team. But, I rarely go to KC, so it doesn't directly impact me. To some degree, I am happy MO is not footing the bill.

I have no use for the Chiefs, so I don't care that they're moving to wherever. And I'm very happy the state of Missouri is not helping to bankroll a new stadium for them. There are a lot better uses for our tax money than for subsidizing billionaires.

This, I agree with everything you stated!

[Bomber1]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Take your meds.

[CCard]

Your trying to make this political? It's not political at all. Facts are facts. Illinois has a far larger GDP than Missouri. This is all about the dollars. Billionaires (as we've seen with Stan Kronke) have no loyalty. They want more money and that is just about that.

It's reality. These billionaires want to move somewhere where they can have regular people subsidize their new stadiums. It's not going to happen in Illinois anytime soon, as you can see from the hardball they are playing with the Bears right now.

But if you're saying that it's all about GDP and comparing the Cardinals to the Chiefs, the Chiefs just moved to a state with a far lower GDP than the one they are currently in. And the Cardinals, even though they did take public money for Busch 3, it was much less than other cities.

I guess Kansas City MO was playing the same kind of "hardball". The Chiefs just agreed to the largest subsidized stadium, I believe in history. $1.3 Billion I think. A lot of those Kansas people will be subsidizing football for the billionaires for a long time. Doesn't make sense now does it.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

I very much understand and am sympathetic to your points, I really am. Ballparks and stadiums attract tax payers, without more taxpayers you have no taxes to collect.

No system is ever going to be perfect. We should definitely always be striving to make things more perfect. Ballparks and stadiums are for everyone and mostly for middle and working classes. They are just a bigger more grand version of your public park or public school gymnasium, library etc. It's for everyone to enjoy. Those ballparks and stadiums are public/ private partnerships because that is what a massive part of the people want. Why should I subsidize your kids school or Healthcare if you don't want to subsidize what is important to me?

America today, I will argue is the greatest civilization of all time, you seem to make it out like we are living in Yemen or Mali or something. My local high school here looks like a cathedral and some say this is the ghetto my downtown St. Louis library looks like a beautiful masterpiece that should be in movies. What more do you really want? because we have it better than kings and queens of the past as just middle class folks.

You mean subsidized professional ballparks where you have to pay to park, get in and watch the games? Yeah, that's not for everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be paid for by tax payers that can't afford groceries, healthcare and education for their kids. School funding being cut, libraries have been decimated with federal cuts(my wife is a librarian), no healthcare for millions of Americans (the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare for its citizens, people struggling to get enough food and other needs. Don't fool yourself, America is not all it's cracked up to be. I went to school in southeast Missouri. We had some classes in trailers. It was hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Things aren't and weren't as rosy as you make out. Right now with people struggling to get by is no time to spend a billion dollars on a stadium for a billionaire. Especially if they won't subsidize a winning effort on the field.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

lol if they move to another municipality within St. Louis County why would they still not be the St. Louis Cardinals?

It’s not the Santa Clara 49ers. Or Inglewood Rams. Or East Rutherford Jets/Giants. Or the Cobb County Braves.

Like chill. This is not a new thing. Plus, there’s not even any whispers of the Cardinals relocating or for sale. You’re getting worked up for nothing. They didn’t spend a decade building two phases of Ballpark Village just to pick up and leave.

I'm sure they were saying similar stuff about the Chiefs a while back. True it's not a far move for them, but it is another state. And if they had moved two states away the result would still be the same. The St Louis Browns, The Brooklyn Dodgers, The Montreal Expos. Don't tell me it can't happen. If they were planning to do this what would they do different from what they're doing right now? Nothing.

The economics of the sport are not even on the same planet today as the Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers days. The Expos left after their fans abandoned them after the strike.

Anything can happen, but there's no neighboring state for the Cards to move to. Yeah Metro STL covers Illinois, but anyone suggesting the Cards move to the Metro East is no paying attention to Illinois politics. The state is broke. They can't even agree on funding to keep the Bears - let alone luring another franchise over. The Cards aren't going to move to Iowa, Kentucky, or Arkansas... let's be serious.

There are other (bleep) franchises to move to Nashville before it would ever be the Cards. MLB more likely will expand to Nashville at this point anyway with the Rays seemingly moving towards a stadium solution with their new owner. If that falls through, Nashville will come calling.

The Chiefs are moving 20 miles across the boarder. Every current fan can and will continue to be a fan. If anything, it'll make the games MORE accessible as the west suburbs of KC is where more of the money is and more of the fans were driving north to Arrowhead anyway.

Again....Illinois GDP dwarfs Missouri's. They are showing common sense in not being bent over by a sports team. You speak of stuff you can't possibly know. "The Chiefs moving is actually a good thing." Please, who would believe that. "Every fan can and will continue to be a fan." You can't know that either and in fact is extremely illogical. What we do know unequivocally is that you don't know what a billionaire and his buddies have plans for. You're just like so many now days. "It couldn never happen here." Look around, it's happening in real time.

So Illinois is being sensible and not giving money to sports owners for stadiums. But you're also worried they will move the Cardinals there? Which is it?

I said they could go to Illinois since they have a far greater GDP than Missouri. But I'm sure there are many states that would love to lure the Cards away. Remember the St Louis Cardinals football team that moved to Arizona? Or the Rams moving to St Louis and then back?

[RamFan08NY]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I guess Kansas City MO was playing the same kind of "hardball". The Chiefs just agreed to the largest subsidized stadium, I believe in history. $1.3 Billion I think. A lot of those Kansas people will be subsidizing football for the billionaires for a long time. Doesn't make sense now does it.

Well, yes, Jackson County voters rejected a sales tax that would have raised $2+ billion for stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs. I would say that is playing hardball. I guess state legislators in Kansas found a way to avoid voters having a say in it and I don’t think they give a [shirt] about people in Kansas paying for it. They’re doing what rich people pay them to do, which is to do whatever they tell them. But, the people in Kansas get what they voted for, I guess.

[Ike Hammett]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

I very much understand and am sympathetic to your points, I really am. Ballparks and stadiums attract tax payers, without more taxpayers you have no taxes to collect.

No system is ever going to be perfect. We should definitely always be striving to make things more perfect. Ballparks and stadiums are for everyone and mostly for middle and working classes. They are just a bigger more grand version of your public park or public school gymnasium, library etc. It's for everyone to enjoy. Those ballparks and stadiums are public/ private partnerships because that is what a massive part of the people want. Why should I subsidize your kids school or Healthcare if you don't want to subsidize what is important to me?

America today, I will argue is the greatest civilization of all time, you seem to make it out like we are living in Yemen or Mali or something. My local high school here looks like a cathedral and some say this is the ghetto my downtown St. Louis library looks like a beautiful masterpiece that should be in movies. What more do you really want? because we have it better than kings and queens of the past as just middle class folks.

You mean subsidized professional ballparks where you have to pay to park, get in and watch the games? Yeah, that's not for everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be paid for by tax payers that can't afford groceries, healthcare and education for their kids. School funding being cut, libraries have been decimated with federal cuts(my wife is a librarian), no healthcare for millions of Americans (the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare for its citizens, people struggling to get enough food and other needs. Don't fool yourself, America is not all it's cracked up to be. I went to school in southeast Missouri. We had some classes in trailers. It was hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Things aren't and weren't as rosy as you make out. Right now with people struggling to get by is no time to spend a billion dollars on a stadium for a billionaire. Especially if they won't subsidize a winning effort on the field.

You know when the LA Memorial Coliseum was built in 1923 it cost less than $1 million with an M. Maybe the single greatest investment for infrastructure in LA ever. Just think about how many hundreds of millions of people have visited for different things. These places are like huge community centers, economic anchors, job creators, tourist destinations, symbols of civic pride, and even memorials to war vets like in LA.

Just about every time I go to Cards games I see school cheerleader performances happening, school field trips, boys and girls club outings, school kids singing the anthem, handicapped groups outings etc etc. Is that the type of stuff you mean by funding education and healthcare? Because I'm sure tax money pays for that.

You're not really paying to park, you are paying for security to watch your vehicle. It's still a public park and you are paying for the entertainment event you choose to see. I go to lots of games at Busch as I live less than a mile away, people go and just sit in the plaza, dance, walk their dog, kids run the bases of the old stadium, play games etc. All for free.

You should look up pictures of what the Navy Yard in Washington DC or where Camden Yards is before they were there. These things bring those places back from the dead and generate lots of activities and events on what was wasteland. Go to where Sportsman park here in St. Louis and see what it looks like now, kind of ghetto with no activity.

What about places like the Gateway Arch? You have to pay to park, pay to go to the top.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

I very much understand and am sympathetic to your points, I really am. Ballparks and stadiums attract tax payers, without more taxpayers you have no taxes to collect.

No system is ever going to be perfect. We should definitely always be striving to make things more perfect. Ballparks and stadiums are for everyone and mostly for middle and working classes. They are just a bigger more grand version of your public park or public school gymnasium, library etc. It's for everyone to enjoy. Those ballparks and stadiums are public/ private partnerships because that is what a massive part of the people want. Why should I subsidize your kids school or Healthcare if you don't want to subsidize what is important to me?

America today, I will argue is the greatest civilization of all time, you seem to make it out like we are living in Yemen or Mali or something. My local high school here looks like a cathedral and some say this is the ghetto my downtown St. Louis library looks like a beautiful masterpiece that should be in movies. What more do you really want? because we have it better than kings and queens of the past as just middle class folks.

You mean subsidized professional ballparks where you have to pay to park, get in and watch the games? Yeah, that's not for everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be paid for by tax payers that can't afford groceries, healthcare and education for their kids. School funding being cut, libraries have been decimated with federal cuts(my wife is a librarian), no healthcare for millions of Americans (the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare for its citizens, people struggling to get enough food and other needs. Don't fool yourself, America is not all it's cracked up to be. I went to school in southeast Missouri. We had some classes in trailers. It was hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Things aren't and weren't as rosy as you make out. Right now with people struggling to get by is no time to spend a billion dollars on a stadium for a billionaire. Especially if they won't subsidize a winning effort on the field.

You know when the LA Memorial Coliseum was built in 1923 it cost less than $1 million with an M. Maybe the single greatest investment for infrastructure in LA ever. Just think about how many hundreds of millions of people have visited for different things. These places are like huge community centers, economic anchors, job creators, tourist destinations, symbols of civic pride, and even memorials to war vets like in LA.

Just about every time I go to Cards games I see school cheerleader performances happening, school field trips, boys and girls club outings, school kids singing the anthem, handicapped groups outings etc etc. Is that the type of stuff you mean by funding education and healthcare? Because I'm sure tax money pays for that.

You're not really paying to park, you are paying for security to watch your vehicle. It's still a public park and you are paying for the entertainment event you choose to see. I go to lots of games at Busch as I live less than a mile away, people go and just sit in the plaza, dance, walk their dog, kids run the bases of the old stadium, play games etc. All for free.

You should look up pictures of what the Navy Yard in Washington DC or where Camden Yards is before they were there. These things bring those places back from the dead and generate lots of activities and events on what was wasteland. Go to where Sportsman park here in St. Louis and see what it looks like now, kind of ghetto with no activity.

What about places like the Gateway Arch? You have to pay to park, pay to go to the top.

Dress it up anyway you like. It's still private business billionaires taking tax payers dollars for personal gain. The business is profitable enough, they should pay for their own (bleep) stadiums. It's certainly not like a national park or a U.S. monument. People go to stadiums it's true, but the stadiums are there because people go to them. Without the people they wouldn't exist. Why should people be bent over by wealthy businessmen so that some may enjoy. If not then where does it stop at? Build them a new billion dollar mansion. I'm sure some people will be invited to enjoy it.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

Who knows what's in a billionaires mind? Kroenke didn't let the dust settle too long before he moved the Rams. How long did Bidwell wait before he moved the Big Red? They might never move. But if they were going to move, these are the steps an owner would take first.

[ecleme22]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

Who knows what's in a billionaires mind? Kroenke didn't let the dust settle too long before he moved the Rams. How long did Bidwell wait before he moved the Big Red? They might never move. But if they were going to move, these are the steps an owner would take first.

Bloom: “alright guys, we are going to make some trades this offseason to build up our farm system and core of young talent.”

You: “oh my lord! They’re moving the team!!!”

[Ike Hammett]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

Who knows what's in a billionaires mind? Kroenke didn't let the dust settle too long before he moved the Rams. How long did Bidwell wait before he moved the Big Red? They might never move. But if they were going to move, these are the steps an owner would take first.

It's called a public private partnership. Most owners put in a lot of resources to get it built also. I don't like defending ultra wealthy "capitalists" but why should they pay for maintenance, upkeep, personal for public events in the stadium? Some stadiums share pro teams with amateur college teams, have state championship games, community events, even like in New Orleans provide shelter to hurricane folks that have nowhere to go.

How much in taxes do pro players pay? How much in taxes does Taylor Swift pay? What is the economics impact on a community that gets a super bowl or major event? Why would Jeff Bezos want to build a new headquarters in your city over the other guys?

Learn to get good at it and do it right so it benefits you and your community.

[RamFan08NY]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

Who knows what's in a billionaires mind? Kroenke didn't let the dust settle too long before he moved the Rams. How long did Bidwell wait before he moved the Big Red? They might never move. But if they were going to move, these are the steps an owner would take first.

Bloom: “alright guys, we are going to make some trades this offseason to build up our farm system and core of young talent.”

You: “oh my lord! They’re moving the team!!!”

The gloom and doom never ends with CCard.

[Cardinals1964]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

I'm old enough to remember the Boston Patriots.

It brings up an interesting trivia question. How many NFL teams (or MLB, etc.) play within the city limits of the city in their name?

Here's a quick list off the tip of my head.
NY Giants
Dallas
San Francisco
LA Rams
Miami
LA Chargers
*Arizona
*New England

Arizona and New England don't play in Phoenix and Boston so they belong on this list, even though they changed their name to notate the region.

I think you meant teams that don’t play in the city limits they are named after.

[juan good eye]

Cards aren’t leaving or moving.

If the current stadium ever becomes an issue then maybe there is a serious discussion to be had. However, current ownership has way too much invested in that real-estate to start over.

Unlike the Rams there aren’t any NY or LA options.