rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
I’m hoping a potential Donovan trade focuses on OF improvement, assuming the Noah Cameron thing was just smoke. I was kind of warming up to that idea because I would’ve liked to see someone added to the rotation that isn’t such a question mark and would still be around for the turnaround timeframe.
I agree, the Donovan trade needs to focus on bats. They have a huge amount of SP depth after the last 2 trades. It is also why they should not go back to the Red Sox, who do not have many great position players to choose from.
Finally, given that Bernal is supposedly such a great defensive catcher, why the Cards are going back to Herrera at C is such a mystery to me. If Herrera can learn to play LF, which is not that hard, that fixes 1 OF position for the next 4 years at least. If Victor Scott can get on base at a 325-340 clip, CF is fixed for the next 4 years. Then they just need one more OF and it doesn't matter if anybody on the list above is any good or not, with the exception of Josh Baez. Adding 1-2 high end prospects in a Donovan trade makes this look so much better. That is why I am hoping they go back to Seattle and can get both Montes and Arroyo.
If the Dodgers like Nootbar so much, if they can package him and get River Ryan back, I would be happy for the Cards to call it an offseason at that point (assuming they can trade Arenado for a bucket of baseballs.) They will have all kinds of young guys competing for spots and quite a few with a lot of upside. That will add excitement to 2026, even if the overall results are not great. Hopefully 4-5 guys emerge and then 2027 can be interesting.
Another poster speculated Herrera might go to 1B. LF makes sense too, but I definitely don't get moving him back to catcher. Teams are going to run wild on him unless he's getting a bionic arm transplant that we don't know about.
I also agree on pivoting away from Boston for the OF help. Apparently there's a comfort level there for Bloom, but the prospects you list from the other teams seem more desirable.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
I agree. The MLB outfield was the worst in baseball last year in almost every meaningful stat.
If you think Scott will improve as a hitter, revisit his hitting stats over the past 6 years.
Walker? huge question mark but I'm alarmed at his lack of progress (pitiful pitch recognition).
Noot. One injury after another.
The ONLY outfielder in the minors I have any level of trust in is Josh Baez, and he needs to prove it for a second year.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
I agree. The MLB outfield was the worst in baseball last year in almost every meaningful stat.
If you think Scott will improve as a hitter, revisit his hitting stats over the past 6 years.
Walker? huge question mark but I'm alarmed at his lack of progress (pitiful pitch recognition).
Noot. One injury after another.
The ONLY outfielder in the minors I have any level of trust in is Josh Baez, and he needs to prove it for a second year.
I went back and looked at Scott's stats. In 2023 between Peoria and Springfield, 303/369/425. In 2022 at Palm Beach, 222/358/389. That seems to leave a lot of room for improvement. If he can get his OBP up to 330-350 at the ML level, I don't really care what the rest of his hitting stats look like. His base stealing and spectacular D makes him a starting CF based on that alone.
Shady wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 18:09 pm
A wildcard could be trading a highly rated catcher, Crooks or Bernal, for a highly rated young outfielder.
I think trading Burleson for a promising AA center fielder would be the right move. The Cards have enough players who can fill in at 1B during the rebuilding phase.
They might think Mitchell is that CF of the future and ride it out for 2-3 years While Burly plays 1B.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
Pushing Davis to AAA has a ‘sink or swim’ element to it and maybe it’s time for some of that.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
I agree. The MLB outfield was the worst in baseball last year in almost every meaningful stat.
If you think Scott will improve as a hitter, revisit his hitting stats over the past 6 years.
Walker? huge question mark but I'm alarmed at his lack of progress (pitiful pitch recognition).
Noot. One injury after another.
The ONLY outfielder in the minors I have any level of trust in is Josh Baez, and he needs to prove it for a second year.
I went back and looked at Scott's stats. In 2023 between Peoria and Springfield, 303/369/425. In 2022 at Palm Beach, 222/358/389. That seems to leave a lot of room for improvement. If he can get his OBP up to 330-350 at the ML level, I don't really care what the rest of his hitting stats look like. His base stealing and spectacular D makes him a starting CF based on that alone.
VSII's career
College - .254/.368/.419/.787
Career Minors - .264/.344/.381/.725 (against better pitching AAA stats were: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs)
His MLB stats are: .206/.283/.293/.576
What indicators are there that he will ever hit? In MLB and AAA, he's well under a .600 OPS.
His speed and spectacular defense bring his WAR to 1.7, but that's still in the bottom half of starting CFs.
For a team that desperately needs offense, he should not be a starter.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
I agree. The MLB outfield was the worst in baseball last year in almost every meaningful stat.
If you think Scott will improve as a hitter, revisit his hitting stats over the past 6 years.
Walker? huge question mark but I'm alarmed at his lack of progress (pitiful pitch recognition).
Noot. One injury after another.
The ONLY outfielder in the minors I have any level of trust in is Josh Baez, and he needs to prove it for a second year.
I went back and looked at Scott's stats. In 2023 between Peoria and Springfield, 303/369/425. In 2022 at Palm Beach, 222/358/389. That seems to leave a lot of room for improvement. If he can get his OBP up to 330-350 at the ML level, I don't really care what the rest of his hitting stats look like. His base stealing and spectacular D makes him a starting CF based on that alone.
VSII's career
College - .254/.368/.419/.787
Career Minors - .264/.344/.381/.725 (against better pitching AAA stats were: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs)
His MLB stats are: .206/.283/.293/.576
What indicators are there that he will ever hit? In MLB and AAA, he's well under a .600 OPS.
His speed and spectacular defense bring his WAR to 1.7, but that's still in the bottom half of starting CFs.
For a team that desperately needs offense, he should not be a starter.
Yep. He was given a job before he earned it or had demonstrated any likelihood of success. Mozeliak promoted him and Walker based on prospect rankings alone and hoped for good PR.
This “if Scott just gets his OBP to .340-.350” is such a monumental leap… a pipe dream. That’s how Mozeliak planned… hoping for no reason that things would just be better.
I can’t wait to see Baez in AAA. I really hope the strides he made continue to show up.
He won’t wow anyone, but I think Church will do a lot of things well and can be a Donovan type of hitter… plus plate discipline, plus bat to ball, and can cover all 3 outfield spots.
rage-STL wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pmSt Louis Cardinals
Lars Nootbaar, LH
Jordan Walker, RH
Victor Scott II, LH
Nathan Church, LH
Memphis Redbirds
Joshua Baez, RH
Chase Davis, LH
Miguel Ugueto, RH
Matt Koperniak, LH
Springfield Cardinals
Travis Honeyman, RH
Won Bin Cho, LH
Zach Levenson, RH
Peoria Chiefs
Jose Cordoba, RH
Yordalin Pena, RH
Luis Pino, RH
Jose Suarez, RH
Nootbaar feels like a prime candidate to be a trade chip at the deadline if he shows he’s healthy and able to produce coming off surgery. We all know what’s at stake for JW in 2026. Baez is the most intriguing prospect of this group because of the strides he made last year, very excited to see how he progresses this year. Honeyman and Ugueto recently competed in the Arizona fall league. From all reports it sounds like Honeyman is healthy for the first time in a long time so this is a big year coming up for him. It would be nice to see Chase Davis have a Baez like jump in production. Am I missing any outfielders with a 2-3 year timeline to reach St Louis and contribute?
Do you think any free agents are added to this mix or is this the group we’re rolling with for the foreseeable future?
Does Davis get promoted from Springfield? I personally wouldn't. He had to claw his way to .700 OPS in September. He just got there in time. May through August he was .600 OPS.
And Won-bin Cho should not go to Springfield. He might get cut in Spring Training.
And Pena and Pino can't hit the broadside of a barn...if they manage to make contact, it's good contact, but they miss more than you ever want a Low A player to miss.
OF is very much in trouble.
players you missed : Petrutz, Buchberger (coming back from injury, he's a LF now...probably back in Springfield, he missed most of the season after a nasty leg break in LF in April), Mike Antico, Bryan Torres (40man) will start in Memphis. Noah Mendlinger played the OF a bit in Springfield b/c of injuries to others. He's a decent bat
I agree. The MLB outfield was the worst in baseball last year in almost every meaningful stat.
If you think Scott will improve as a hitter, revisit his hitting stats over the past 6 years.
Walker? huge question mark but I'm alarmed at his lack of progress (pitiful pitch recognition).
Noot. One injury after another.
The ONLY outfielder in the minors I have any level of trust in is Josh Baez, and he needs to prove it for a second year.
I went back and looked at Scott's stats. In 2023 between Peoria and Springfield, 303/369/425. In 2022 at Palm Beach, 222/358/389. That seems to leave a lot of room for improvement. If he can get his OBP up to 330-350 at the ML level, I don't really care what the rest of his hitting stats look like. His base stealing and spectacular D makes him a starting CF based on that alone.
VSII's career
College - .254/.368/.419/.787
Career Minors - .264/.344/.381/.725 (against better pitching AAA stats were: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs)
His MLB stats are: .206/.283/.293/.576
What indicators are there that he will ever hit? In MLB and AAA, he's well under a .600 OPS.
His speed and spectacular defense bring his WAR to 1.7, but that's still in the bottom half of starting CFs.
For a team that desperately needs offense, he should not be a starter.
In time, he might not be. The Cardinals have many things to address and it could be that he isn't at the top of the list. What happened with him last year can't be the long term plan, I agree with that. Would it be ok if he took 75-80% of the reps in CF this season? It would be with me.
Here is what I want to see. He really needs a different hitting approach. There is only one offensive number that matters in his stat line- his on base percentage. Throw the rest of the numbers away- they don't matter (of course his batting avg affects his OBP). If he can get his on base percentage up in the .330-.350 range, then he is an offensive asset. I didn't look in to the on base stat, but I did look into his batting average. If he could do what he did last year and come up with only 1 additional hit each week, he would have hit nearly .280. One hit. With his approach, I haven't seen him seeking that one additional hit. He will have to hit the ball on the ground more often, maybe bunt more often, hit the ball to the opposite field more often. First, I want to see if he is WILLING to take that approach. Secondly, I want to see if he is ABLE to make that approach work. If the answer to either of those is no, then he might end up as a defensive specialist, and that may not mean as a starter.
Outfield is a huge problem. Equal to pitching depth in my opinion. That’s why I am disappointed that our first two big veteran trades only addressed pitching.
Scott is not a hitter but his defense could play if you address the corners. YOU CANNOT COUNT ON WALKER. He has gotten worse not better and I’m tired of giving him big league reps. Burleson, IH are not outfielders plus Burleson is our first baseman.
Outfield must be addressed before the start of spring training. I’m not looking for all stars but potential.
Jatalk wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:36 pm
Outfield is a huge problem. Equal to pitching depth in my opinion. That’s why I am disappointed that our first two big veteran trades only addressed pitching.
Scott is not a hitter but his defense could play if you address the corners. YOU CANNOT COUNT ON WALKER. He has gotten worse not better and I’m tired of giving him big league reps. Burleson, IH are not outfielders plus Burleson is our first baseman.
Outfield must be addressed before the start of spring training. I’m not looking for all stars but potential.
I suspect any changes to the OF roster will be modest.
Jatalk wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:36 pm
Outfield is a huge problem. Equal to pitching depth in my opinion. That’s why I am disappointed that our first two big veteran trades only addressed pitching.
Scott is not a hitter but his defense could play if you address the corners. YOU CANNOT COUNT ON WALKER. He has gotten worse not better and I’m tired of giving him big league reps. Burleson, IH are not outfielders plus Burleson is our first baseman.
Outfield must be addressed before the start of spring training. I’m not looking for all stars but potential.
I suspect any changes to the OF roster will be modest.
I think you are right as they continue to ride the same lame horses. But not addressing it this year only delays the rebuild.
I dont see Davis helping out the St Louis club. Something miraculous would have to happen. Koperniak has a better chance of making the big league club. I'm pretty high on Baez. I also think that the wait on Walker will finally pay off. He seems a little slow on the uptake but has to realize now that he needs to do what the coaches tell him AND keep doing it instead of regressing, like he did after his breakout session after the all-star break.
Shady wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 18:09 pm
A wildcard could be trading a highly rated catcher, Crooks or Bernal, for a highly rated young outfielder.
I think trading Burleson for a promising AA center fielder would be the right move. The Cards have enough players who can fill in at 1B during the rebuilding phase.
I know there are others, but I keep coming back to the same 2 targets all offseason.
Alec Burleson for Carson Benge of the Mets.
Brendan Donovan, Lars Nootbaar, and JoJo Romero for Mike Sirota (OF), River Ryan and others.
If you had Benge, Sirota, and some combination of Walker, Scott, or Baez that would be worth looking at.
So who is a viable at 1B for the Cardinals if Burleson is traded for Benge? If you say Herrera, who is the DH without Burleson. If you say Gorman, good luck with that.
Without making any moves, the internal options would be Gorman (I wouldn't do that), Herrera (who knows), Blaze Jordan. If you went outside for a stopgap the first ones that come to mind for me would be a low-level trade with Baltimore for Ryan Mountcastle, signing Rhys Hoskins, or as I have mentioned in other threads- signing Ty France. He won the GG at 1B in the AL this year. I don't see any of these as long-term options.
