CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
We can emulate them and we can also have a much higher payroll than those teams. Ownership and management, for whatever reasons, got away from the farm system and that's why the franchise cratered.
Then that is not really emulation. And the franchise never fully relied on the minors, they balanced the shortcomings with free agency. Those of us who want the team to get back to that are chastised as foolish big spender wannabes. We do enjoy the (supposed) resurgence of the minor leagues, though has been no payoff yet, and realize it is a critical aspect, but we also don't think we should have to wait 5 years to be good again.
A couple of good moves could get us back to competiveness and bring some fun back to being a Cardinals fan, and the continued development, and hopeful payoff of the revamped system *might* put us over the top. But nothing is guaranteed and we don't think the team should cower in fear and lay down in the fetal position because the big bad spenders are coming to smash our hopes and dreams.
Unless you are somehow getting Ohtani and Judge for next to nothing, there aren't a couple of moves that makes this 2026 roster actually competitive.
Again, minus Gray, Conteras, Mikolas, Matz, Helsley, Fedde, Maton - and assuming minus Arenado and Donovan - plus May, Wetherholt, etc., this isn't much more than 70-74 win roster. What couple of moves net you at least 14, 16, etc. wins?
But there are plenty of moves that could be made today that would handcuff the team to a bad contract by 2028, 2029, etc. when they are potentially ready to compete again.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
And yet you're whining about people misconstruing the argument opposed to the rebuild?
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
You just said we should emulate franchises that haven't won a World Series in 77 years (and 2 have never won a single title)
But anyone who disagrees is a short-sighted hater
Imagine what that makes you
The post was made in jest using similar hyperbole from the other side. When we mention supplementing homegrown players with free agency we are told we "can't be the Dodgers" and we need to lose for several years without trying (tanking).
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
And yet you're whining about people misconstruing the argument opposed to the rebuild?
That's just it. You accuse me of whining and being "opposed" to the rebuild. It's the new political mindset where people say if you aren't with me you are against me and they start putting words in your mouth and projecting their own interpretations on others. This team has been in the midst of a failed rebuild for years anyway, though this approach is in order because of so much failure and bad decision making on every level.
While this approach seems for fitting for the current situation, me and many others aren't claiming victory just yet because we've seen plenty of prospects flame out and we've seen MIL, CLE, TB win a bunch of nothing using the same models. We also don't mind competing for a playoff spot (if possible/feasible) as long as we don't abandon the long term plan, which we AGREE with.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
We can emulate them and we can also have a much higher payroll than those teams. Ownership and management, for whatever reasons, got away from the farm system and that's why the franchise cratered.
Then that is not really emulation. And the franchise never fully relied on the minors, they balanced the shortcomings with free agency. Those of us who want the team to get back to that are chastised as foolish big spender wannabes. We do enjoy the (supposed) resurgence of the minor leagues, though has been no payoff yet, and realize it is a critical aspect, but we also don't think we should have to wait 5 years to be good again.
A couple of good moves could get us back to competiveness and bring some fun back to being a Cardinals fan, and the continued development, and hopeful payoff of the revamped system *might* put us over the top. But nothing is guaranteed and we don't think the team should cower in fear and lay down in the fetal position because the big bad spenders are coming to smash our hopes and dreams.
Unless you are somehow getting Ohtani and Judge for next to nothing, there aren't a couple of moves that makes this 2026 roster actually competitive.
Again, minus Gray, Conteras, Mikolas, Matz, Helsley, Fedde, Maton - and assuming minus Arenado and Donovan - plus May, Wetherholt, etc., this isn't much more than 70-74 win roster. What couple of moves net you at least 14, 16, etc. wins?
But there are plenty of moves that could be made today that would handcuff the team to a bad contract by 2028, 2029, etc. when they are potentially ready to compete again.
Well, we can't have Ohtani or Judge for next to nothing so I guess there is no other way. Why did they even hire a POBO/GM anyway? Oli could've just surrended all by himself. Or hell, why didn't they just hire you MM? All that talent right here on Cards Talk just wasting away. You could've saved this franchise in your spare time using fWAR projections and spin rate data.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
And yet you're whining about people misconstruing the argument opposed to the rebuild?
That's just it. You accuse me of whining and being "opposed" to the rebuild. It's the new political mindset where people say if you aren't with me you are against me and they start putting words in your mouth and projecting their own interpretations on others. This team has been in the midst of a failed rebuild for years anyway, though this approach is in order because of so much failure and bad decision making on every level.
While this approach seems for fitting for the current situation, me and many others aren't claiming victory just yet because we've seen plenty of prospects flame out and we've seen MIL, CLE, TB win a bunch of nothing using the same models. We also don't mind competing for a playoff spot (if possible/feasible) as long as we don't abandon the long term plan, which we AGREE with.
I have not, even slightly addressed your "side of the argument" only your response to the "other side." Stop projecting.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:45 am
Yes, they must - but then they must ultimately execute the same basic plan BETTER by eventually being able to spend more on the ML roster than Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Tampa Bay.
That's how they get to being consistently competitive again for NL pennants and WS titles.
Mil, Cleve, and TB have ALWAYS been low rent organizations…..that’s why they operate in the manner they do.
Cleve lucky to draw 2mil
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
And yet you're whining about people misconstruing the argument opposed to the rebuild?
That's just it. You accuse me of whining and being "opposed" to the rebuild. It's the new political mindset where people say if you aren't with me you are against me and they start putting words in your mouth and projecting their own interpretations on others. This team has been in the midst of a failed rebuild for years anyway, though this approach is in order because of so much failure and bad decision making on every level.
While this approach seems for fitting for the current situation, me and many others aren't claiming victory just yet because we've seen plenty of prospects flame out and we've seen MIL, CLE, TB win a bunch of nothing using the same models. We also don't mind competing for a playoff spot (if possible/feasible) as long as we don't abandon the long term plan, which we AGREE with.
I have not, even slightly addressed your "side of the argument" only your response to the "other side." Stop projecting.
So your response is whining about me whining? Noted. Good talk.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
We can emulate them and we can also have a much higher payroll than those teams. Ownership and management, for whatever reasons, got away from the farm system and that's why the franchise cratered.
Then that is not really emulation. And the franchise never fully relied on the minors, they balanced the shortcomings with free agency. Those of us who want the team to get back to that are chastised as foolish big spender wannabes. We do enjoy the (supposed) resurgence of the minor leagues, though has been no payoff yet, and realize it is a critical aspect, but we also don't think we should have to wait 5 years to be good again.
A couple of good moves could get us back to competiveness and bring some fun back to being a Cardinals fan, and the continued development, and hopeful payoff of the revamped system *might* put us over the top. But nothing is guaranteed and we don't think the team should cower in fear and lay down in the fetal position because the big bad spenders are coming to smash our hopes and dreams.
Unless you are somehow getting Ohtani and Judge for next to nothing, there aren't a couple of moves that makes this 2026 roster actually competitive.
Again, minus Gray, Conteras, Mikolas, Matz, Helsley, Fedde, Maton - and assuming minus Arenado and Donovan - plus May, Wetherholt, etc., this isn't much more than 70-74 win roster. What couple of moves net you at least 14, 16, etc. wins?
But there are plenty of moves that could be made today that would handcuff the team to a bad contract by 2028, 2029, etc. when they are potentially ready to compete again.
Well, we can't have Ohtani or Judge for next to nothing so I guess there is no other way. Why did they even hire a POBO/GM anyway? Oli could've just surrended all by himself. Or hell, why didn't they just hire you MM? All that talent right here on Cards Talk just wasting away. You could've saved this franchise in your spare time using fWAR projections and spin rate data.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
We can emulate them and we can also have a much higher payroll than those teams. Ownership and management, for whatever reasons, got away from the farm system and that's why the franchise cratered.
Then that is not really emulation. And the franchise never fully relied on the minors, they balanced the shortcomings with free agency. Those of us who want the team to get back to that are chastised as foolish big spender wannabes. We do enjoy the (supposed) resurgence of the minor leagues, though has been no payoff yet, and realize it is a critical aspect, but we also don't think we should have to wait 5 years to be good again.
A couple of good moves could get us back to competiveness and bring some fun back to being a Cardinals fan, and the continued development, and hopeful payoff of the revamped system *might* put us over the top. But nothing is guaranteed and we don't think the team should cower in fear and lay down in the fetal position because the big bad spenders are coming to smash our hopes and dreams.
Unless you are somehow getting Ohtani and Judge for next to nothing, there aren't a couple of moves that makes this 2026 roster actually competitive.
Again, minus Gray, Conteras, Mikolas, Matz, Helsley, Fedde, Maton - and assuming minus Arenado and Donovan - plus May, Wetherholt, etc., this isn't much more than 70-74 win roster. What couple of moves net you at least 14, 16, etc. wins?
But there are plenty of moves that could be made today that would handcuff the team to a bad contract by 2028, 2029, etc. when they are potentially ready to compete again.
Well, we can't have Ohtani or Judge for next to nothing so I guess there is no other way. Why did they even hire a POBO/GM anyway? Oli could've just surrended all by himself. Or hell, why didn't they just hire you MM? All that talent right here on Cards Talk just wasting away. You could've saved this franchise in your spare time using fWAR projections and spin rate data.
So you don't have any ideas either? Got it.
I don’t and neither do you. I don’t have delusions of grandeur either.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
And yet you're whining about people misconstruing the argument opposed to the rebuild?
That's just it. You accuse me of whining and being "opposed" to the rebuild. It's the new political mindset where people say if you aren't with me you are against me and they start putting words in your mouth and projecting their own interpretations on others. This team has been in the midst of a failed rebuild for years anyway, though this approach is in order because of so much failure and bad decision making on every level.
While this approach seems for fitting for the current situation, me and many others aren't claiming victory just yet because we've seen plenty of prospects flame out and we've seen MIL, CLE, TB win a bunch of nothing using the same models. We also don't mind competing for a playoff spot (if possible/feasible) as long as we don't abandon the long term plan, which we AGREE with.
I have not, even slightly addressed your "side of the argument" only your response to the "other side." Stop projecting.
So your response is whining about me whining? Noted. Good talk.
My response was pointing out your hypocrisy - misconstruing matt's argument to the point of ridiculousness, while pissing and moaning about being misconstrued. I thought that much was clear in the first post of mine you responded to. But you talked right past that to lecture me about politics and projection because, for some strange reason, you think I addressed your stance and misconstrued it.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
I suspect there will be a big fight after this season although I have little confidence the owners of mid/small market teams will stand firm on a legitimate payroll cap along the lines of other pro sports. If that does happen then a well run Cardinals franchise will have just as good a chance as other teams.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:42 am
I know it will result in ZERO world titles, but we will make the playoffs (sometimes), which ironically was also the goal of the previous failed model.
I hope the next CBA allows the team to employ hobos who don't play for money, but blocks of cheese. This will ensure the DeWitt family fortune remains secure for generations to come.
I dream of a packed Busch stadium watching 130-loss teams while simultaneously dreaming of the next wave of 8 year old little leaguers who might one day lead us to the promised land.
However, if any player has the nerve to develop into a productive winner, they must be shipped out immediately because the present doesn't matter and you can't live your life with hope, entertainment, or fun today, only one day...many many years from now.
Anyone who disagrees are short-sighted haters.
I suspect there will be a big fight after this season although I have little confidence the owners of mid/small market teams will stand firm on a legitimate payroll cap along the lines of other pro sports. If that does happen then a well run Cardinals franchise will have just as good a chance as other teams.
Hard sell to the players union but maybe they’ll agree for the betterment, or to save, the sport.
