Question for those not wanting to Rebuild

[Ike Hammett]

To make your scenario work the Cardinals MUST receive HIGHER quality talent in return for Gray, WC, Donny, NOOT than those players represent.

The Cardinals should certainly be seeking prospects who have the potential (ceiling) of being as good, or better, than those veteran players.

The Cards have talent NOW…..if BDW spends now they could compete.

I really do not see evidence of that. By "compete" I don't mean an 85, 86 win team that sneaks into the playoffs as a WC and hopes for the best.

Your theory is that Bloom will raid other clubs best talent and many of his draft picks will morph into All-stars and THEN BDW will ramp payroll to fill in holes.

Yes, Bloom and Co. have to do a good job at exactly what they were hired for - identifying and acquiring the right prospects from other organizations and developing them. As I have said, they really need to develop at least one All-Star level cost controlled position player (Wetherholt?) and one All-Star level cost controlled SP (Doyle?), and then lesser pieces around them.

So again Bloom Prospects will need to be better than WC, Donny, Gray, Noot to achieve this baseball glory you always outline. You have no way of knowing this will happen other than hoping and I’ll challenge you to find any point in Cards history where this has happened.

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything. You can't know anything for certain about the future. But you can assess the probabilities and maximize your probability of success.

To contrary MOST of cards winning history timeframe is established MLB players being acquired.

The Cardinals success in the 2000s was fueled in significant part by having Pujols and Molina as huge "values" on the roster. That was what allowed the Cardinals to go out and add established players around them to be highly successful.

The Cardinals absolutely have to have a depth of young, cost controlled player "value" first to which they can add established players in the future.

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I see many here seem to think the owners of the Cards are supposed to spend their money to give us a winner. Keep in mind DeWitt isn't the only owner and some of them might like to earn something every year from their investment.

Now personally if I were a multi-billionaire I'd spend like a drunken sailor to win a WS. But that's me. Asking DeWitt or any one else to spend their money for me is over the top entitled. I expect them to run the team like a professional organization. Which means at some level of profit. Sometimes doing so means investing more and even running at a temporary loss. But not a long term loss. Which is what it will take if they didn't do this reset/rebuilt/tanking (whatever term floats anyones boat).

STL needs this reset. HOPEFULLY in the background they have spent money to improve everything about the farm system. More and better scouts and coaches. Better facilities and technology. And we can hope this will result in more successful players coming up from the farm. No more failures like Gorman and Walker.

When they complete that (which I believe began over a year ago) and the farm begins producing and they have ended the initial investment THEN I want to see investment at the ML level signing the missing pieces. Salary should jump back to the level of $180 mil or higher.

IMO if they fail to sign serious talent in the majors from the FA pool beginning in 2028 then we have every right to get angry and resentful. Until then I am watching in belief this is the right program and path.

[mattmitchl44]

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

Over the last five seasons, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Seattle, and Tampa Bay have combined to average ~89 wins per year. I believe the Cardinals can definitely put themselves into at least that same category.

They could set up a hypothetical cycle where they win like 80-92-95-95-92-80 (avg. 89 wins) on a rolling six-year window, being serious contenders for four years out of every six.

[Hoosier59]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

[mattmitchl44]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

I think I've explained the logic behind what they are doing quite precisely.

You can't possibly NOT understand that when you go out and spend big money (like the Phillies on Schwarber, Blue Jays on Cease, Orioles on Alonso, etc.) that the good years of those contracts are highly slanted toward coming in year 1, year 2 while the bad years come toward the end (and maybe the middle).

[Ike Hammett]

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

Over the last five seasons, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Seattle, and Tampa Bay have combined to average ~89 wins per year. I believe the Cardinals can definitely put themselves into at least that same category.

They could set up a hypothetical cycle where they win like 80-92-95-95-92-80 (avg. 89 wins) on a rolling six-year window, being serious contenders for four years out of every six.

I'm okay with that IF you give hope and a few stars to root for.

[mattmitchl44]

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

Over the last five seasons, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Seattle, and Tampa Bay have combined to average ~89 wins per year. I believe the Cardinals can definitely put themselves into at least that same category.

They could set up a hypothetical cycle where they win like 80-92-95-95-92-80 (avg. 89 wins) on a rolling six-year window, being serious contenders for four years out of every six.

I'm okay with that IF you give hope and a few stars to root for.

If they are achieving that, why the f*** does it matter whose names are on the back of the uniforms???

[Ike Hammett]

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

Over the last five seasons, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Seattle, and Tampa Bay have combined to average ~89 wins per year. I believe the Cardinals can definitely put themselves into at least that same category.

They could set up a hypothetical cycle where they win like 80-92-95-95-92-80 (avg. 89 wins) on a rolling six-year window, being serious contenders for four years out of every six.

I'm okay with that IF you give hope and a few stars to root for.

If they are achieving that, why the f*** does it matter whose names are on the back of the uniforms???

Obviously because they are not "achieving" that and I need some hope with consistency that I can root for! This dawg doesn't want to hun in the cold, with a bad hunter who doesn't shoot straight, that has bad equipment and their isn't a lo of game out there. I don't trust you like i do Mr Mo or Mr DeWitt who always tried to shoot me straight and give an honest evaluation along with their best efforts!

[Ike Hammett]

The Cardinals might not ever be able to compete for the Ohtani, Yamamoto, Betts type players, maybe trade or sign a Freddie Freeman once in a while. The goal should be to win this division (on paper anyway) hope a David Freese can come up with some big hits. Even if you have a Mets type owner and talent, you are not guaranteed anything. Cards kind of have to be that upset type team. The DeWitt, Mozeliak model IS THE BEST that can be reasonably expected. Win the division, hope for the best and if reasonable try and make a move to put the club over the top.

Over the last five seasons, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Seattle, and Tampa Bay have combined to average ~89 wins per year. I believe the Cardinals can definitely put themselves into at least that same category.

They could set up a hypothetical cycle where they win like 80-92-95-95-92-80 (avg. 89 wins) on a rolling six-year window, being serious contenders for four years out of every six.

I'm okay with that IF you give hope and a few stars to root for.

If they are achieving that, why the f*** does it matter whose names are on the back of the uniforms???

Obviously because they are not "achieving" that and I need some hope with consistency that I can root for! This dawg doesn't want to hunt in the cold, with a bad hunter who doesn't shoot straight, that has bad equipment and their isn't a lot of game out there. I don't trust you like i do Mr Mo or Mr DeWitt who always tried to shoot me straight and give an honest evaluation along with their best efforts!

[Hoosier59]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

I think I've explained the logic behind what they are doing quite precisely.

You can't possibly NOT understand that when you go out and spend big money (like the Phillies on Schwarber, Blue Jays on Cease, Orioles on Alonso, etc.) that the good years of those contracts are highly slanted toward coming in year 1, year 2 while the bad years come toward the end (and maybe the middle).

One last thing, what if the Cardinals would have signed Alonso last off season, and he had the year he had with the Cardinals instead of the Mets? How would that affected the rest of the lineup? What if Fedde would have been traded, like most of us wanted, last off season, and the package he would have brought back added to the roster? If McGreevy started out sooner than he did? Plus the Cardinals would have addd one more starter to the mix?
The cost of one starter and Alonso, you tell me that the Dewitts couldn’t afford that? Plus the package for Fedde. What if Wetherholt would have been brought up and given a chance, like the A’s did with Kurtz? What if they’d went out and got a decent right handed hitting outfielder, instead of Hampson, and Vilade? Bader as an example. He was good for the Phillies, didn’t cost much and there was no long term commitment.
Would this team have beaten the Dodgers? On paper, NO! But that’s why the game is played between the lines! Regardless, that team would have been fun to root for, the stadium would have been packed, and we wouldn’t be having this stupid argument!

[ecleme22]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

I think I've explained the logic behind what they are doing quite precisely.

You can't possibly NOT understand that when you go out and spend big money (like the Phillies on Schwarber, Blue Jays on Cease, Orioles on Alonso, etc.) that the good years of those contracts are highly slanted toward coming in year 1, year 2 while the bad years come toward the end (and maybe the middle).

One last thing, what if the Cardinals would have signed Alonso last off season, and he had the year he had with the Cardinals instead of the Mets? How would that affected the rest of the lineup? What if Fedde would have been traded, like most of us wanted, last off season, and the package he would have brought back added to the roster? If McGreevy started out sooner than he did? Plus the Cardinals would have addd one more starter to the mix?
The cost of one starter and Alonso, you tell me that the Dewitts couldn’t afford that? Plus the package for Fedde. What if Wetherholt would have been brought up and given a chance, like the A’s did with Kurtz? What if they’d went out and got a decent right handed hitting outfielder, instead of Hampson, and Vilade? Bader as an example. He was good for the Phillies, didn’t cost much and there was no long term commitment.
Would this team have beaten the Dodgers? On paper, NO! But that’s why the game is played between the lines! Regardless, that team would have been fun to root for, the stadium would have been packed, and we wouldn’t be having this stupid argument!

If Mo had the benefit of hindsight like you do, he would’ve traded Fedde before the season and signed Bader.

But he didn’t.

This org needed/needs to accumulate prospects. They did that in 2025 TDL and are continuing to.

Also, this roster got stale…

I personally think you will be pleasantly surprised by the 2026 team…

[mattmitchl44]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

I think I've explained the logic behind what they are doing quite precisely.

You can't possibly NOT understand that when you go out and spend big money (like the Phillies on Schwarber, Blue Jays on Cease, Orioles on Alonso, etc.) that the good years of those contracts are highly slanted toward coming in year 1, year 2 while the bad years come toward the end (and maybe the middle).

One last thing, what if the Cardinals would have signed Alonso last off season, and he had the year he had with the Cardinals instead of the Mets? How would that affected the rest of the lineup? What if Fedde would have been traded, like most of us wanted, last off season, and the package he would have brought back added to the roster? If McGreevy started out sooner than he did? Plus the Cardinals would have addd one more starter to the mix?
The cost of one starter and Alonso, you tell me that the Dewitts couldn’t afford that? Plus the package for Fedde. What if Wetherholt would have been brought up and given a chance, like the A’s did with Kurtz? What if they’d went out and got a decent right handed hitting outfielder, instead of Hampson, and Vilade? Bader as an example. He was good for the Phillies, didn’t cost much and there was no long term commitment.
Would this team have beaten the Dodgers? On paper, NO! But that’s why the game is played between the lines! Regardless, that team would have been fun to root for, the stadium would have been packed, and we wouldn’t be having this stupid argument!

With ALL that, they likely edge the Reds for the last WC spot and get hammered by the Dodgers in the 1st round of the playoffs - just like the Reds did. Alonso would have cost at least $30 million last year (plus draft picks), and that's if the Mets wouldn't have pushed the bidding even higher if they needed to. Then you would had had to hit exactly on other, really cheap adds. With 20/20 hindsight you can make those picks, but it's would have been a lot hard to get it right at the time.

If we're playing "what if"s - what if the Cardinals had done what they should have done and traded Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023 and committed to starting this rebuild then instead of limping along like they did?

[Ronnie Dobbs]

It's so funny that for years people complained about the Cardinals business model and how our teams were always built to hopefully sneak in the playoffs and pray for a miracle. Now all of a sudden we are like 2 players from being real contenders? Okay.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

It's so funny that for years people complained about the Cardinals business model and how our teams were always built to hopefully sneak in the playoffs and pray for a miracle. Now all of a sudden we are like 2 players from being real contenders? Okay.

Well not everyone gets the rebuild concept. I'm in favor so long as it is no longer than 2 years and then they go back to a higher level of salary and try to add premium type free agents. This means I give them slack 2026, and 2027 (if we even have a season) and by 2028 there better be results or I will be disappointed in this strategy.

It does get tiresome how some seem to feel entitled to ownership spending lots of it's own money for some reason.

[Cusecards]

Matt, in your own words, you said in order for the Cardinals to complete in 2026 they would need to spend $200mil, $210 mil, or slightly more.
Can we all just agree that the DeWitts can afford to do this? When you are a multi-Billionaire, 200 mil, isn’t that much, especially if you own a Sports team and you have aspirations of putting a winning team on the field.
Why own a Sports team if you aren’t going to try and win with it?
The sole reason DeWitt is doing this is to try and show the rest of the League his disdain for the current system, and to try and get enough support to make changes.
My belief is that if there aren’t enough changes made, DeWitt will sell the team. He has, or soon will have the payroll low enough for a potential buyer.

I've said - over and over and over again - that the Cardinals will EVENTUALLY have to raise payroll back to $175, $180, or more million when they are ready to actually compete again.

But they are NOT ready to compete right now. They have to do the hard work - which takes time - of rebuilding a strong foundation of young, cost controlled players in order to be able to compete again. There are few, if any, quick fixes. The only short cut is doing what they are doing - trading Gray, Arenado, Contreras, Donovan, etc. for the best prospects they can who can help jump start that rebuilding.

As they are NOT ready to compete right now, I don't care if they spend $50 million or $100 million or $150 million in 2026 or what you think they "can spend." As far as I'm concerned what they spend in 2026 is simply moot - it might be the difference between winning 68 games to 82 games, but that doesn't really concern me much.

Maybe they could spend $210, $220 million in 2026 and try to "compete" - and if all the players they were spending huge amounts of money on were signed for just 2026, I'd care less. But to spend that kind of money they would have to commit to older players on long, expensive contracts. And it is those contracts which well could be "underwater" - like Arenado's contract is now - in 2028, 2029, etc. that keep them from competing then. That's why they shouldn't go out and spend $210, $220 million now.

I’m done arguing with you! You’re either part of the Ownership group, or in their employ! Your steadfast stubbornness can only be explained by this. Trying to reason with you is like talking to a fence post!

I think I've explained the logic behind what they are doing quite precisely.

You can't possibly NOT understand that when you go out and spend big money (like the Phillies on Schwarber, Blue Jays on Cease, Orioles on Alonso, etc.) that the good years of those contracts are highly slanted toward coming in year 1, year 2 while the bad years come toward the end (and maybe the middle).

One last thing, what if the Cardinals would have signed Alonso last off season, and he had the year he had with the Cardinals instead of the Mets? How would that affected the rest of the lineup? What if Fedde would have been traded, like most of us wanted, last off season, and the package he would have brought back added to the roster? If McGreevy started out sooner than he did? Plus the Cardinals would have addd one more starter to the mix?
The cost of one starter and Alonso, you tell me that the Dewitts couldn’t afford that? Plus the package for Fedde. What if Wetherholt would have been brought up and given a chance, like the A’s did with Kurtz? What if they’d went out and got a decent right handed hitting outfielder, instead of Hampson, and Vilade? Bader as an example. He was good for the Phillies, didn’t cost much and there was no long term commitment.
Would this team have beaten the Dodgers? On paper, NO! But that’s why the game is played between the lines! Regardless, that team would have been fun to root for, the stadium would have been packed, and we wouldn’t be having this stupid argument!

If Mo had the benefit of hindsight like you do, he would’ve traded Fedde before the season and signed Bader.

But he didn’t.

This org needed/needs to accumulate prospects. They did that in 2025 TDL and are continuing to.

Also, this roster got stale…

I personally think you will be pleasantly surprised by the 2026 team…

Good points....hindsight is always 20/20.
I’m an optimist by nature and I do see potential positives for 2026.
I know a lot of fans are frustrated with the payroll.
I think the Cards will spend money but the start of 2026 may not be the best time?
In general the FO has spent money...just not wisely in a number of cases.

[mattmitchl44]

It's so funny that for years people complained about the Cardinals business model and how our teams were always built to hopefully sneak in the playoffs and pray for a miracle. Now all of a sudden we are like 2 players from being real contenders? Okay.

Well not everyone gets the rebuild concept. I'm in favor so long as it is no longer than 2 years and then they go back to a higher level of salary and try to add premium type free agents. This means I give them slack 2026, and 2027 (if we even have a season) and by 2028 there better be results or I will be disappointed in this strategy.

It does get tiresome how some seem to feel entitled to ownership spending lots of it's own money for some reason.

I definitely expect that the offseason after 2027 is where they plan to start adding significant, relatively expensive, multiyear FA signings again. I'd hope they are looking to push for 90+ wins again in 2028. If everything goes fantastically well in 2026, maybe that moves up a year. Or if everything goes pretty badly the next two (e.g., injuries costing Wetherholt and Doyle development time, etc.), maybe it gets pushed back a year.