That's a nice goal, I'll admit I've never seen that.
Is that one highlight the reason people think he could be a 20 goal scorer? Would explain a lot...
I have no allusion that he'd ever score 20 in the NHL.
He's a reliable 4th-line grinder and averages 9g, 9a over 82 games. For a small cap hit, worth the money.
We're in agreement, then.
What I don't agree with is this sentiment that's been around that Toro is somehow just around the corner and we should start seeing him move up in the lineup--no, he's not, and no, we shouldn't. There's nothing in his history, and nothing apparent now to suggest that. I can't think of another grinder we've had with his pedigree that so many people for some reason think is bound to break out, that was the reason I said he might be the most overrated ever. Is it his combo of size and speed that gets people infatuated? That's far from the end-all, be-all in this sport.
Sure, I understand your points, and have no intention to speak for others.
His "break-out" year was a couple seasons ago with 14 goals and 7 assists. Maybe he has a similar season — or better? — down the road, but the data does not overwhelming suggest that.
He's only got 31 goals so obviously not a whole lot of "highlight" reels but here's a few that def show he's got the NHL level skills to produce more than he's currently averaging:
That's a nice goal, I'll admit I've never seen that.
Is that one highlight the reason people think he could be a 20 goal scorer? Would explain a lot...
I have no allusion that he'd ever score 20 in the NHL.
He's a reliable 4th-line grinder and averages 9g, 9a over 82 games. For a small cap hit, worth the money.
We're in agreement, then.
What I don't agree with is this sentiment that's been around that Toro is somehow just around the corner and we should start seeing him move up in the lineup--no, he's not, and no, we shouldn't. There's nothing in his history, and nothing apparent now to suggest that. I can't think of another grinder we've had with his pedigree that so many people for some reason think is bound to break out, that was the reason I said he might be the most overrated ever. Is it his combo of size and speed that gets people infatuated? That's far from the end-all, be-all in this sport.
The only one I can think of is Barbashev, who also seemed like a JAG that topped out at 14 goals before breaking out with 26g and 60 points.
I don't see that coming from Torop, and for years have been wondering what the infatuation is all about. This goes beyond St. Louis's usual love of grinders.
Hes playing again on the top line. Maybe he does get traded?
Or maybe he takes on a bigger role? Going one of two ways.
The guy bring energy and can hit--great on 4th line.
We needed every thumper and grinder we had in 2019 to win the Cup. On the other hand, although we had a dispicable coach/gm that we couldn't change from a Blackhawk to a Blue, we couldn't do diddle when we had Hull and Gretzky. That's not a comparison. We had to smash the other teams to win the Cup, but it worked, St.Louis style. And it was pretty damm fun too.
Blues Dave wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 14:17 pm
We needed every thumper and grinder we had in 2019 to win the Cup. On the other hand, although we had a dispicable coach/gm that we couldn't change from a Blackhawk to a Blue, we couldn't do diddle when we had Hull and Gretzky. That's not a comparison. We had to smash the other teams to win the Cup, but it worked, St.Louis style. And it was pretty damm fun too.
Very few teams win the Cup without being difficult to play against physically.
skilles wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:01 pm
Just no, Toro is one of the things that are right about this team and part of the solution. Its time to turn the corner on the old guard if we are making moves.
disagree completely ...Torop is the main thing WRONG with this team. We have too many forwards who can't shoot or pass. Torop has more PIM / game than pts / game through 278 games. He is not a "prospect with potential". He is at best a healthy scratch on any good team.
Any team that has to put a guy like him in the lineup of 12 forwards simply isn't good enough. We need more skill and less brick-hands like Torop.
skilles wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:01 pm
Just no, Toro is one of the things that are right about this team and part of the solution. Its time to turn the corner on the old guard if we are making moves.
disagree completely ...Torop is the main thing WRONG with this team. We have too many forwards who can't shoot or pass. Torop has more PIM / game than pts / game through 278 games. He is not a "prospect with potential". He is at best a healthy scratch on any good team.
Any team that has to put a guy like him in the lineup of 12 forwards simply isn't good enough. We need more skill and less brick-hands like Torop.
He indeed has brick hands. Hes a big dude who can impact the game on the 4th line.
I think hes on the block for sure. Showcasing him on 1st line.
He is a factor--huge energy guy--i think he definitely is an nhl player on all teams.
That's a nice goal, I'll admit I've never seen that.
Is that one highlight the reason people think he could be a 20 goal scorer? Would explain a lot...
I have no allusion that he'd ever score 20 in the NHL.
He's a reliable 4th-line grinder and averages 9g, 9a over 82 games. For a small cap hit, worth the money.
We're in agreement, then.
What I don't agree with is this sentiment that's been around that Toro is somehow just around the corner and we should start seeing him move up in the lineup--no, he's not, and no, we shouldn't. There's nothing in his history, and nothing apparent now to suggest that. I can't think of another grinder we've had with his pedigree that so many people for some reason think is bound to break out, that was the reason I said he might be the most overrated ever. Is it his combo of size and speed that gets people infatuated? That's far from the end-all, be-all in this sport.
The only one I can think of is Barbashev, who also seemed like a JAG that topped out at 14 goals before breaking out with 26g and 60 points.
I don't see that coming from Torop, and for years have been wondering what the infatuation is all about. This goes beyond St. Louis's usual love of grinders.
agreed, and not even Barbashev is a good comparison. PPG for both
Torop
year 1 = .07
year 2 = .27
year 3 = .25
year 4 = .23
year 5 = .1
Barb
year 1 = .4
year 2 = .25
year 3 = .33
year 4 = .38
year 5 = .32 ...and then in year 6 he realized that progress to become a consistent .74 ppg player
I could see the Blues adding Torpo in a trade if they were sellers. He's a UFA and it's quite possible there won't be room for him next year with the kids knocking on the door.
skilles wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:01 pm
Just no, Toro is one of the things that are right about this team and part of the solution. Its time to turn the corner on the old guard if we are making moves.
disagree completely ...Torop is the main thing WRONG with this team. We have too many forwards who can't shoot or pass. Torop has more PIM / game than pts / game through 278 games. He is not a "prospect with potential". He is at best a healthy scratch on any good team.
Any team that has to put a guy like him in the lineup of 12 forwards simply isn't good enough. We need more skill and less brick-hands like Torop.
Delusional IMO, the top teams are getting more from top players receiving top salaries.
Toro is a fine 4th liner with a salary that reflects his value to the team. He is a piece that fits. Of course he has flaws which is why he is playing that role.
Trading Toro is pretty useless, probably not Adding a better player in return or with the money saved.
As much as I appreciate Schenn over the years he is a much better trade candidate.
Its not always about who is the better players, its about managing a team/assets.
Well he didn't do much on the top line tonight. I think he's a player that needs time and space or at least the time to break free with his speed in order to make things happen. He's never done jack on his upper line opportunities.
