Question for those not wanting to Rebuild

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

[mattmitchl44]

If your numbers are right, they would need some luck to make the playoffs but it's possible. Add a little more and they make the playoffs probably. Once in the playoffs they have a chance to make a run. Teams can and have done that. Competitive teams draw more fans so not only does it lift a team but it actually lifts a teams bottom line. Losing doesn't do that. Losing Gray hurts. Losing Donovan hurts. But if they get top talent in return then not so much. Losing Mikolas and Matz is a plus. Any replacement is likely to do as well or better IMO. Easing the pressure on Walker and Scott by improving the team can only help them at worst. This team should add quality free agents to help and make the playoffs.

The Cardinals are trying to build an organizational future that isn't so dependent on luck.

And, no, if you have a consistently Top 5 farm system, basing your roster construction on the annual development of prospects isn't "luck."

The problem is you can't consistently keep a top 5 farm system. You're subject to the eccentricities of the draft. You draft good it helps you win, you win you get a worse draft position. This up and down process can be mitigated with good free agent signings but success will always leave you in a poorer draft position. You can hope for lightning from lower picks and supplement with free agents or you can put your eggs into losing and drafting high. We see the Pittsburghs and Miami's getting these high picks but it never seems to make them winners. I wonder why.

You can consistently draft better than average. At every point that the Cardinals draft there are future major leaguers available to be drafted. The teams that do a better job of identifying and developing them (and international signings) will always have an advantage in their farm systems.

Because Pittsburgh and Miami have ~$100 million less in ML payroll than the Cardinals to put into:

1) aggressively locking up the players they do develop with lower cost, long term contracts and
2) selectively adding key FAs at the right time

Not really. No one knows if a player will break out. The consistent winners use their minors as trading cards to land major talent. Occasionally a young stud filters through. Depending mostly on minor league talent is why the lesser teams constantly lose. When you stick someone like Siani into the lineup for 400-500 at bats it's always going to end bad. That's why he can't stick anywhere. My proposal is to not cut salary at all. Instead play your hand every single year. If you absolutely must trade away top talent (Gray), it's a must to get top talent that is very near major league ready. Why not compete every single year? There just isn't a good excuse not to.

Then how have teams like Cleveland, Tampa Bay, and Milwaukee consistently get more production out of young players on their rosters - and have been in the Top 10 in regular season wins over the last decade?

They do it because they are consistently better at identifying, acquiring, and developing young talent. Of the Top 10 batters and Top 10 pitchers for those teams over the last decade (60 total players), 35 (58%) came to the majors with those teams and another 22 (37%) were acquired by trade as pre-ARB or ARB years players.

Those are the models. Then add tens of millions more in payroll on top of that.

[ecleme22]

If your numbers are right, they would need some luck to make the playoffs but it's possible. Add a little more and they make the playoffs probably. Once in the playoffs they have a chance to make a run. Teams can and have done that. Competitive teams draw more fans so not only does it lift a team but it actually lifts a teams bottom line. Losing doesn't do that. Losing Gray hurts. Losing Donovan hurts. But if they get top talent in return then not so much. Losing Mikolas and Matz is a plus. Any replacement is likely to do as well or better IMO. Easing the pressure on Walker and Scott by improving the team can only help them at worst. This team should add quality free agents to help and make the playoffs.

The Cardinals are trying to build an organizational future that isn't so dependent on luck.

And, no, if you have a consistently Top 5 farm system, basing your roster construction on the annual development of prospects isn't "luck."

The problem is you can't consistently keep a top 5 farm system. You're subject to the eccentricities of the draft. You draft good it helps you win, you win you get a worse draft position. This up and down process can be mitigated with good free agent signings but success will always leave you in a poorer draft position. You can hope for lightning from lower picks and supplement with free agents or you can put your eggs into losing and drafting high. We see the Pittsburghs and Miami's getting these high picks but it never seems to make them winners. I wonder why.

You can consistently draft better than average. At every point that the Cardinals draft there are future major leaguers available to be drafted. The teams that do a better job of identifying and developing them (and international signings) will always have an advantage in their farm systems.

Because Pittsburgh and Miami have ~$100 million less in ML payroll than the Cardinals to put into:

1) aggressively locking up the players they do develop with lower cost, long term contracts and
2) selectively adding key FAs at the right time

Not really. No one knows if a player will break out. The consistent winners use their minors as trading cards to land major talent. Occasionally a young stud filters through. Depending mostly on minor league talent is why the lesser teams constantly lose. When you stick someone like Siani into the lineup for 400-500 at bats it's always going to end bad. That's why he can't stick anywhere. My proposal is to not cut salary at all. Instead play your hand every single year. If you absolutely must trade away top talent (Gray), it's a must to get top talent that is very near major league ready. Why not compete every single year? There just isn't a good excuse not to.

Siani is a horrible example.

The Cards opened the season w injuries, tried using VS in CF, but he was too green. All they had left was Siani.

If anything, Siani is an example of poor, thin roster construction by Mo. He’s not an example of a hole in Blooms plan…

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

[dugoutrex]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

we will see how serious the rebuild/tank crowd is based on how many of them flock to the stadium while the 'real fans' take the next few seasons off

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

we will see how serious the rebuild/tank crowd is based on how many of them flock to the stadium while the 'real fans' take the next few seasons off

I live less than a mile away, go to ballpark village about once a week, am the biggest Cards fan and want them to good. Let's see, doubt anyone shows up, I will be at most games, these haters won't and probably don't care or even live in St. Louis or visit!

[Ozziesfan41]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

we will see how serious the rebuild/tank crowd is based on how many of them flock to the stadium while the 'real fans' take the next few seasons off

I live less than a mile away, go to ballpark village about once a week, am the biggest Cards fan and want them to good. Let's see, doubt anyone shows up, I will be at most games, these haters won't and probably don't care or even live in St. Louis or visit!

It sure seems like you’re the one doing all the hating and whining and crying

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

The game evolves. Going back ten years and comparing it to today is a joke as the economics have changed.

The Jays are a far deeper team than the Cards. Not the equivalent.

You all want to leave the team stuck in mediocrity to avoid a couple tough seasons. They tried the mediocrity route hoping for a magical run the last five years and it failed miserably.

Side note? Why does wanting to see this team excel make me a hater? That makes zero sense.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

At the end of the day regardless of how we feel in this discussion the Cardinals are overtly in a rebuild and will not be in contention next year unless a miracle happens. 2027 is possible but most likely we will see them open the bank again on veteran free agents in 2028 when they have established a core and can ID sore needs.

[Cusecards]

At the end of the day regardless of how we feel in this discussion the Cardinals are overtly in a rebuild and will not be in contention next year unless a miracle happens. 2027 is possible but most likely we will see them open the bank again on veteran free agents in 2028 when they have established a core and can ID sore needs.

Good points!
I’m excited for 2026 but not because I’m expecting to be in the post season.
I’ll be watching the progress from new faces which includes prospects from inside the organization AND newcomers obtained from outside.

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

The game evolves. Going back ten years and comparing it to today is a joke as the economics have changed.

The Jays are a far deeper team than the Cards. Not the equivalent.

You all want to leave the team stuck in mediocrity to avoid a couple tough seasons. They tried the mediocrity route hoping for a magical run the last five years and it failed miserably.

Side note? Why does wanting to see this team excel make me a hater? That makes zero sense.

It's better than the Pirates model, we had some really good teams in there that made the playoffs, had hall of famers and mvp candidates etc. The reds and pirates model sucks a fat one. You are haters because you are not respectful or thankful for all the BIG WINNING of the past and those who brought it, you literally hated that model and perfer this garbage.

[Ike Hammett]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

we will see how serious the rebuild/tank crowd is based on how many of them flock to the stadium while the 'real fans' take the next few seasons off

I live less than a mile away, go to ballpark village about once a week, am the biggest Cards fan and want them to good. Let's see, doubt anyone shows up, I will be at most games, these haters won't and probably don't care or even live in St. Louis or visit!

It sure seems like you’re the one doing all the hating and whining and crying

Maybe NOW!!! My man right here said it best and wraps up my thoughts perfect.

https://youtube.com/shorts/88HdIZCLk0M? ... nkhl_ivwJo

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Get real, obviously try to get the club back to a 90+ win team that can win this weak division and hope for a hot streak into the playoffs where anything can happen. Get a couple more Dustin May and maybe a Pete Alonzo type slugger and go get this division. Can't do it when you losers don't show up and root for them.

What part of my post asked people to avoid going to games to protest. I raised concerns years ago about how this team was run. I was called entitled for questioning a franchise with a winning past. How has the team done the last four years?

I am 100% on board with building this correctly to get a team who can win 90+ games and has a legit chance in the playoffs. That doesn’t take spending wildly. It does take building a young core.

They tried the let’s compete in a bad division and hope to make the playoffs and hope for a magical run. It failed miserably. They need to stop lying to themselves and rebuild this correctly.

Fair, I want better too just like I'm certain the Cards organization wanted also. That's why you go out and get a Goldy, Nado, Gray, Contreras etc and try to build winning teams (90+ on paper) instead of trading them away for prospects that get you hopefully 75 wins on paper and the fans don't want to see.

Can you even beat the Reds today?

I sat here for years blasting them for the one big move an offseason and not adding to it. They allowed the core to age to the point they are at now. There was nothing reasonable available this offseason to turn it around. Turning this around in one offseason would have required adding at least five high priced impact players.

The team had way too many massive holes to fill with band aids and expect more than mediocrity.

I will raise the [nonsense] flag on this nonsense! Wacha can beat Kershaw, David Freese can beat the Rangers! You just saw the blue Jay's take them to the edge and were ahead, I get it's baseball and anything can happen, but what do you haters want? GO REBUILD, THE BEST YOU WILL GET IS WHAT WE HAD!

The game evolves. Going back ten years and comparing it to today is a joke as the economics have changed.

The Jays are a far deeper team than the Cards. Not the equivalent.

You all want to leave the team stuck in mediocrity to avoid a couple tough seasons. They tried the mediocrity route hoping for a magical run the last five years and it failed miserably.

Side note? Why does wanting to see this team excel make me a hater? That makes zero sense.

It's better than the Pirates model, we had some really good teams in there that made the playoffs, had hall of famers and mvp candidates etc. The reds and pirates model sucks a fat one. You are haters because you are not respectful or thankful for all the BIG WINNING of the past and those who brought it, you literally hated that model and perfer this garbage.

Never did I say I preferred this model. I have raised concerns I have with the current way DeWitt is running this rebuild. If they turn this into a Pirates situation then it is an epic failure. Others have rebuilt and turned themselves into serious World Series contenders. It’s on DeWitt and Bloom to show which direction this rebuild will go.

I am also done with the way they wasted the last five years building mediocre teams with no chance of contending for a World Series and hearing people say “well maybe they can go on a 2006 run”.

That team had Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen and Carpenter in their prime. This team even with Gray was not close to that team. And magical runs are considered magical runs as they nearly never happen so when a team has an outlier like that it’s special. It’s not a model to build a franchise on.