Classless says the guy who hasn't called my name right once since you were proven so wrong! Isn't it past bed time for you? Did you miss your nap today? My goodness! You made a statement that was proven false, you won't admit you're wrong, and you just continue to pout like a baby! It is a baseball forum, not life or death "Granny"!
Making a mountain out of a mole hole and calling people names is totally classless, zuck. And now you talk about bed time and taking a nap? Adding more insults? Seriously, don't you have better things to do than to snark up an anonymous baseball forum? Why don't you get off your petty little kick and talk some baseball. Like when the next trade may occur. Whom we might get for Donovan. Comment on the possible Giants or Mariners trade. Top prospects that may come back, as suggested by other posters. Stuff like that.
Not an overall bad write. Your bottom six lines are valid. Using - petty little kick, snark, diminishes that message.
Okay, SB, good idea. Let's get back on track. With the Cards adding Fitts and hopefully May to the rotation, and Kent and Pushard to the bullpen, what do you emphasize in a trade with either the Giants or the Mariners? Another starter or a position player (hopefully power corner outfielder)? Or both, if you need to add another player on top of Donovan to go to Seattle.
Also, with Red talking about defense, if Donovan is traded, what's your best up the middle (infield) defense? Winn and JJ? Or put JJ at third and play Saggese at second?
Superb write. One of your best.
Ok I don’t know if I can emphasize a return physically, but I do believe I can emphasize an intent. Your right. What it might be? I’m thinking pitching.
I’m stead fast- with Arenado it’s arenado Winn JJ and some body at first.
Without arenado it’s JJ Winn ?? At second somebody at first.
If Arenado isn't traded, the picture is pretty clear with JJ at 2B. But if Arenado is traded (which Bloom is pretty sure he will be), then decisions have to be made. What gives you the best defense up the middle, as Red is asking for? JJ at 2B? JJ at 3B and Saggese or Fermin at 2B? If that's the case, who's the better defender at 2B between Saggese and Fermin?
JJ at second reminds me of Herr and Ozzie. If we have no Nado then second becomes arbitrary and I’d try JJ at third.
As for the other two at second. They would degrade the up the middle from the afore mentioned set up, but how much? If minimal either can play it.
How about going with JJ at 2B and Saggese at 3B?
I’m sure that will suffice. And should seal the middle. But Saggese at the corner is a power hole which we are defiency in.
On his way up, Saggese had 26 home runs at AAA in 780 PAs. Would 20 home runs at the 3B position suffice, if he can deliver that?
Tommy has 3HR in 325 ML at bats……that equates to about 6HR in a full season…..heck we’ll give him 7…..
A lot of hitters have struggled when first brought up.
WC is a 20 HR guy
Herrera is 18
Burly is around 20
Donovan and Noot around 14
But you think Saggesse has the ability to equal WC and top the others?
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
MAYBE we can start over.
Please join in the discussion of what the best infield defense up the middle would be, under the scenarios of Arenado and/or Donovan being traded or not being traded.
I'm on topic and you are not. Start you own thread and quit changing others.
I thought this thread was about how important defense is.
And I was on topic.
Again, you are off topic.
The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I've been posting about up the middle infield defense. You say that's "off topic". Please explain to me why that's "off topic". Thank you.
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
MAYBE we can start over.
Please join in the discussion of what the best infield defense up the middle would be, under the scenarios of Arenado and/or Donovan being traded or not being traded.
I'm on topic and you are not. Start you own thread and quit changing others.
I thought this thread was about how important defense is.
And I was on topic.
Again, you are off topic.
The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I've been posting about up the middle infield defense. You say that's "off topic". Please explain to me why that's "off topic". Thank you.
It really a shame you can't handle a topic and not try to change topic.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine.
Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
SB - I read the title of the thread and thought Red was talking about defense, which he has always emphasized. I then aligned my posts with that theme in mind, and especially up the middle defense. With players we already have. But when he criticized me for "high jacking" his thread, I went back to the beginning to read his first post. He talked about any trade should emphasize defense first over hitting, since the pitching is weak. So I then, in response to his first post, asked what
positions he would trade for to bulk up the defense and if he had any trade targets in mind. Hoping that would bring it back on track to what he was looking for. We'll see what he has in mind. Maybe he's talking about the outfield (since we have so many infielders) - where he wants players in trades who bring defense as well as some offense.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
SB - I read the title of the thread and thought Red was talking about defense, which he has always emphasized. I then aligned my posts with that theme in mind, and especially up the middle defense. With players we already have. But when he criticized me for "high jacking" his thread, I went back to the beginning to read his first post. He talked about any trade should emphasize defense first over hitting, since the pitching is weak. So I then, in response to his first post, asked what
positions he would trade for to bulk up the defense and if he had any trade targets in mind. Hoping that would bring it back on track to what he was looking for. We'll see what he has in mind. Maybe he's talking about the outfield (since we have so many infielders) - where he wants players in trades who bring defense as well as some offense.
Here is one of your posts, completely off topic, trying to change the subject:
Zuke - it has been commented on here many times - the Cardinals haven't gotten a chance at the premium top half of the first round draft picks because they've had winning seasons in all but 3 seasons this century. This is nothing new. It's been posted on here over the past several years by multiple posters. Why don't you tell all the posters who have posted that over the years to "man up"?
Now tell me what the hell that has to do with defense!
You have become a cantankerous old man that will never admit he is wrong or argues with subjects completely off subject. Talk about hijacking posts then blaming someone else!
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
SB - I read the title of the thread and thought Red was talking about defense, which he has always emphasized. I then aligned my posts with that theme in mind, and especially up the middle defense. With players we already have. But when he criticized me for "high jacking" his thread, I went back to the beginning to read his first post. He talked about any trade should emphasize defense first over hitting, since the pitching is weak. So I then, in response to his first post, asked what
positions he would trade for to bulk up the defense and if he had any trade targets in mind. Hoping that would bring it back on track to what he was looking for. We'll see what he has in mind. Maybe he's talking about the outfield (since we have so many infielders) - where he wants players in trades who bring defense as well as some offense.
Here is one of your posts, completely off topic, trying to change the subject:
Zuke - it has been commented on here many times - the Cardinals haven't gotten a chance at the premium top half of the first round draft picks because they've had winning seasons in all but 3 seasons this century. This is nothing new. It's been posted on here over the past several years by multiple posters. Why don't you tell all the posters who have posted that over the years to "man up"?
Now tell me what the hell that has to do with defense!
You have become a cantankerous old man that will never admit he is wrong or argues with subjects completely off subject. Talk about hijacking posts then blaming someone else!
LOL. I won't lower myself to your level, Red. Which unfortunately is lower than it's ever been.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
SB - I read the title of the thread and thought Red was talking about defense, which he has always emphasized. I then aligned my posts with that theme in mind, and especially up the middle defense. With players we already have. But when he criticized me for "high jacking" his thread, I went back to the beginning to read his first post. He talked about any trade should emphasize defense first over hitting, since the pitching is weak. So I then, in response to his first post, asked what
positions he would trade for to bulk up the defense and if he had any trade targets in mind. Hoping that would bring it back on track to what he was looking for. We'll see what he has in mind. Maybe he's talking about the outfield (since we have so many infielders) - where he wants players in trades who bring defense as well as some offense.
Here is one of your posts, completely off topic, trying to change the subject:
Zuke - it has been commented on here many times - the Cardinals haven't gotten a chance at the premium top half of the first round draft picks because they've had winning seasons in all but 3 seasons this century. This is nothing new. It's been posted on here over the past several years by multiple posters. Why don't you tell all the posters who have posted that over the years to "man up"?
Now tell me what the hell that has to do with defense!
You have become a cantankerous old man that will never admit he is wrong or argues with subjects completely off subject. Talk about hijacking posts then blaming someone else!
LOL. I won't lower myself to your level, Red. Which unfortunately is lower than it's ever been.
All I do is state the truth, sorry you can't handle the truth.
WLTFE wrote: ↑15 Dec 2025 18:53 pm
Red...you're in the rabbit hole...can't argue with Baghdad Bob!...
It is such a shame.
From one who claims he only wants to talk baseball and not change the topic.
Let me try again. The title of this thread is "In my opinion it's defense first". I posted about "up the middle" defense
if Arenado and/or Donovan is/are traded. You say that is off topic. I don't understand. So I will ask you again - why is it
off topic when it's talking about the Cardinals defense, which you started a thread about? Will look forward to your answer.
Also, Red, if you want to talk about trades, and the fact that you would put defensive skills first in trades, then that's fine. Please tell us what positions you would like to see traded for and maybe even some examples of guys you'd like to trade for that fit your profile.
You can't stay on subject without hijacking someone's thread. Just quit changing the topic. Also, when someone proves you wrong, why can't you admit it?
I’m following this debate. It’s about trading for defense because the pitching will not be good. One poster wants to solve it from within, another wants a trade. What am I missing.
Cranny hijacked this topic from the 3rd page on. That may be what you are missing.
Ok. I’ve read it all. He merely refined defense to mean up the middle defense and added names from within to man second. And then he asked others/ your thought on said subject. Am I tracking.
SB - I read the title of the thread and thought Red was talking about defense, which he has always emphasized. I then aligned my posts with that theme in mind, and especially up the middle defense. With players we already have. But when he criticized me for "high jacking" his thread, I went back to the beginning to read his first post. He talked about any trade should emphasize defense first over hitting, since the pitching is weak. So I then, in response to his first post, asked what
positions he would trade for to bulk up the defense and if he had any trade targets in mind. Hoping that would bring it back on track to what he was looking for. We'll see what he has in mind. Maybe he's talking about the outfield (since we have so many infielders) - where he wants players in trades who bring defense as well as some offense.
Here is one of your posts, completely off topic, trying to change the subject:
Zuke - it has been commented on here many times - the Cardinals haven't gotten a chance at the premium top half of the first round draft picks because they've had winning seasons in all but 3 seasons this century. This is nothing new. It's been posted on here over the past several years by multiple posters. Why don't you tell all the posters who have posted that over the years to "man up"?
Now tell me what the hell that has to do with defense!
You have become a cantankerous old man that will never admit he is wrong or argues with subjects completely off subject. Talk about hijacking posts then blaming someone else!
LOL. I won't lower myself to your level, Red. Which unfortunately is lower than it's ever been.
All I do is state the truth, sorry you can't handle the truth.
I handle the truth all the time. I'm afraid you take CT (and yourself) way to seriously. Why not get in the spirit of the season and be nice. You really don't need to be stooping this low.
