The Art of the Trade

[rockondlouie]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Who got the better end of the deal? Cards or Angels? Jocketty could’ve kept a 18game winner and an up and coming good hit 2B…….
What was the BTV on that deal? Jocketty was getting a CF who played 55 games with 5 HR the previous year with bad attitude rep
On the flip side our MO trades Alcantara and Gallen for Ozuna
Whether it’s better scouting, intuition, gut, a feel…..being tied a some analytics formula that is void of MANY intangibles is stupid. Let’s hope Bloom isn’t stupid

You name one trade while ignoring his really good ones.

He traded Edmonds for David Freese. The trade for Matt Holliday. Trading Colby Rasmus and some guys trade for Octavio Dotel, Edwin Jackson, Corey Patterson and Marc Rzepczynski, without whom we couldn't have won the WS in 2011. Also, trading for Raphael Furcal that same year. More recently, trading for Arenado and Goldschmidt for nothing.

[Goldfan]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

[sikeston bulldog2]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

That is a great point- eye balls equal the hidden gems. The difference makers.

[rockondlouie]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

Good write. I feel the same. Unless proven?

[Goldfan]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

Good write. I feel the same. Unless proven?

Unfortunately it seems that eyeballs have Been replaced by compute and IPad…..and the only thing it sees is 0’s and 1’s

[sikeston bulldog2]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

Good write. I feel the same. Unless proven?

Unfortunately it seems that eyeballs have Been replaced by compute and IPad…..and the only thing it sees is 0’s and 1’s

See that’s true. We are more towards a computerized game to play nclude robotic athletes than we realize.

What happens when a pitcher emerges with a bionic arm. Arm game?

A hitter with bionic eys. Advantage hitter.

Fielder with new legs.

Where does the computer stop.

[rockondlouie]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

Good write. I feel the same. Unless proven?

Thx BDog

[Goldfan]

Along these lines it was really awesome to hear that C. Bloom is hiring more "boots on the ground" major league scouts to scour MLB looking at potential trade candidates!

That shows the forward thinking we lacked under the previous POBO.

Baseball Eye's on players & accumulated years of knowledge + metrics acumen increases the odds of having success when making trades!

Agreed. Eyeballs will find the hidden gem not BTV, WAR, analytics

Combining both (and baseball execs have been using stats since the days of B. Rickey to evaluate players, just a lot more advanced now given our computing power) is the best of all worlds.

Give me baseball scouts who know the game (like Clint in "Trouble w/the Curve" ) and then combine their reports w/advanced metrics on that player and you'll make the best decisions.

But as always, may workout....may not.

Unless you're acquiring a known star player w/a ML track record, it's usually a coin flip if the trade will work.

Good write. I feel the same. Unless proven?

Unfortunately it seems that eyeballs have Been replaced by compute and IPad…..and the only thing it sees is 0’s and 1’s

See that’s true. We are more towards a computerized game to play nclude robotic athletes than we realize.

What happens when a pitcher emerges with a bionic arm. Arm game?

A hitter with bionic eys. Advantage hitter.

Fielder with new legs.

Where does the computer stop.

When the manager knows his best hitter was over at PT’s all night and still smelling like a Bourbon barrel at 11:30 and the game starts in an hour……

[ecleme22]

The Grand Masters of Trading Baseball Players have the elite ability to see future talent and production in a player who has gone unnoticed or fallen off the BTV Meter. It’s not in swapping comparable BTV values……..
This robotic analytics nonsense has zapped the once free flowing/entertaining game, made players robots, and is now aligning trades to fulfill some stupid spreadsheet. “All exchanges must be within 0.5 of expected BTV values”
Please let Bloom be a Free Thinker and not chained to this lunacy

On this board, BTV is at least a tool to determine if a trade proposal is reasonable. I am certain all teams have a much more refined analysis of this to determine what they perceive the value of a player is. In a situation like Donovan, can't both teams be winners? If Donovan helps a team like Seattle win a WS in the next two years, for certain they have to feel like it was a winning trade. If the Cards get two players back, lets use the current trade proposal being widely circulated, Montes and Cijntje and Montes becomes a 750-850 OPS hitter and Cijntje becomes a 6 year SP who pitches to a 3.5 FIP, shouldn't the Cards be doing back flips over that trade? I would. The Cards most certainly would be obtaining an outsized WAR obtained over WAR traded. Seattle gets a WS title. Maybe the Cards do as well.

Sure both side could win. But if a team gives up very little of future value and receives great future value over time. That team should have more chance of being a successful team. If the opposite occurs then that team has a very good chance of being an unsuccessful team. In general how does the forum think teams stock better talent than the other 29 teams? Whether it be drafting, trading, or signing FA. The bottom line goal is to acquire and have better talent than the 29 competitor teams. If I can exchange less future output from my org and return great future output I am depleting my competition and expanding my own. This mindset that “fair” value is the objective is a much less competitive goal than what I outline. Now you may want the trading partner to think they’re getting at least “equal” value that’s where having the better drafting staff, better scouting/trading staff and deep pockets owners for FA ……produces best talent for org.
Jim Edmonds for Kent Bottonfeld
Brock for Brolio
McGee for Sykes
Smith for Templeton

Little known fact: for the Edmonds trade, the Angels also got Adam Kennedy—a player who was integral in the Angels’ 2002 World Series Championship. And a really nice player for them for 7 years.

Being reminded of this, does this make you think less of the Edmonds’ deal?

It’s a trade. You want Edmonds? You have to give up something… Jockety was trying to build a roster. He wasn’t consumed with debasing the Angels’ GM…

lol

Who got the better end of the deal? Cards or Angels? Jocketty could’ve kept a 18game winner and an up and coming good hit 2B…….
What was the BTV on that deal? Jocketty was getting a CF who played 55 games with 5 HR the previous year with bad attitude rep
On the flip side our MO trades Alcantara and Gallen for Ozuna
Whether it’s better scouting, intuition, gut, a feel…..being tied a some analytics formula that is void of MANY intangibles is stupid. Let’s hope Bloom isn’t stupid

That's scouting, brother.