Bernie M. : Why Chaim Bloom MUST trade Brendan Donovant

[Bob39]

From STL Sports Central

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzEM5v4nr_s Time: 25 min. 50 sec.

Bernie argues that while it hurts to lose a leader , trading Donovan might be the smartest move for the franchise rebuild.

What a profound waste of time! So hey fans...we're blowng off 26 and 27 but please come and cheer this really bad team at exorbitant prices.

Well no one was showing up to watch them with Donovan so I’m guessing they decided if they can have fans not show up with him then they can have fans not show up without him

I don't know, they sold over 2 million tickets last year. There is ample room for that number to fall. Of course you have to make decisions that consider both the short and long term future, but you should never just give up on an entire season before it even starts. How many years are you willing to trade for some vague hope of being great in the future? We only get so many years to watch our teams anyway.

[ecleme22]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

Scotch: "The 2b pivot is the most unique thing in all of baseball! Why would they do this to JJ?"

(CUT TO week 2 of Spring Training)

JJ: "Well, I think I have the 2b pivot mastered. That was easy."

[ScotchMIrish]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

No one is claiming that turning a pivot at 2B isn't different.

But, for a guy who is athletic enough to play SS at even a nominal level, let's not make turning a pivot at 2B out to be rocket science requiring four years of study.

As you noted, he DID play 20 games at 2B, and I'm sure he practiced at 2B as well. So it's not like he's never had to turn a pivot at 2B.

I don't think you have to play 2B exclusively in the minors to learn how to turn a pivot.

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

[ecleme22]

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

No one is claiming that turning a pivot at 2B isn't different.

But, for a guy who is athletic enough to play SS at even a nominal level, let's not make turning a pivot at 2B out to be rocket science requiring four years of study.

As you noted, he DID play 20 games at 2B, and I'm sure he practiced at 2B as well. So it's not like he's never had to turn a pivot at 2B.

I don't think you have to play 2B exclusively in the minors to learn how to turn a pivot.

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Donovan won a utility gold glove.

[mattmitchl44]

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone else on the rosters of those minor league teams that they thought could play SS passably well?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him at SS in case Winn's health raised further concerns?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him as SS in case some other team wanted to come make them an offer for him, because they wanted to play him as SS, that they couldn't refuse?

Repping and showcasing him as a SS, even if that doesn't fit with the immediate Cardinals roster, just enhances his value.

[ScotchMIrish]

From STL Sports Central

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzEM5v4nr_s Time: 25 min. 50 sec.

Bernie argues that while it hurts to lose a leader , trading Donovan might be the smartest move for the franchise rebuild.

What a profound waste of time! So hey fans...we're blowng off 26 and 27 but please come and cheer this really bad team at exorbitant prices.

Well no one was showing up to watch them with Donovan so I’m guessing they decided if they can have fans not show up with him then they can have fans not show up without him

I don't know, they sold over 2 million tickets last year. There is ample room for that number to fall. Of course you have to make decisions that consider both the short and long term future, but you should never just give up on an entire season before it even starts. How many years are you willing to trade for some vague hope of being great in the future? We only get so many years to watch our teams anyway.

We are now a revenue sharing franchise and rapidly moving in the direction of Pittsburgh and Kansas City. Royals had a winning record and were 25th in attendance. That's what dumping will do to a fan base. They don't necessarily return when the team starts winning.

[ecleme22]

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone else on the rosters of those minor league teams that they thought could play SS passably well?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him at SS in case Winn's health raised further concerns?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him as SS in case some other team wanted to come make them an offer for him, because they wanted to play him as SS, that they couldn't refuse?

Repping and showcasing him as a SS, even if that doesn't fit with the immediate Cardinals roster, just enhances his value.

I've heard of many of 2B who can't play SS. They're "out of position"
I've never heard of a SS who can't transition to 2B.

Scotch has been creating fanciful arguments all offseason because he doesn't like the direction of the team.

He doesn't like what Bloom is doing so every trade scenario might be like the Betts trade.
He doesn't like Donovan being traded, so he has to argue against JJ being able to play 2B.
He doesn't like X trades so now we're the Pirates.

Of course JJ can play 2B...

[ScotchMIrish]

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone else on the rosters of those minor league teams that they thought could play SS passably well?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him at SS in case Winn's health raised further concerns?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him as SS in case some other team wanted to come make them an offer for him, because they wanted to play him as SS, that they couldn't refuse?

Repping and showcasing him as a SS, even if that doesn't fit with the immediate Cardinals roster, just enhances his value.

All of that seems like a reach. The minor leagues exist for the purpose of feeding player to the major league affiliate. If the plan was to trade Donovan and put Wetherholt at 2B why keep him at SS? The most plausible explanation is they had no plan. Perhaps Mozeliak was mailing it in and Bloom wasn't engaged to the extent he should have been. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like managers in both Springfield and Memphis would pick up the phone and call St Louis to ask what position the #1 prospect should be playing.

For the new guy to step into an announced rebuild this was a blunder. Bloom should have stepped in.

[ecleme22]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

Scotch: "The 2b pivot is the most unique thing in all of baseball! Why would they do this to JJ?"

(CUT TO week 2 of Spring Training)

JJ: "Well, I think I have the 2b pivot mastered. That was easy."

Bump

[renostl]

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone else on the rosters of those minor league teams that they thought could play SS passably well?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him at SS in case Winn's health raised further concerns?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him as SS in case some other team wanted to come make them an offer for him, because they wanted to play him as SS, that they couldn't refuse?

Repping and showcasing him as a SS, even if that doesn't fit with the immediate Cardinals roster, just enhances his value.

I've heard of many of 2B who can't play SS. They're "out of position"
I've never heard of a SS who can't transition to 2B.

Scotch has been creating fanciful arguments all offseason because he doesn't like the direction of the team.

He doesn't like what Bloom is doing so every trade scenario might be like the Betts trade.
He doesn't like Donovan being traded, so he has to argue against JJ being able to play 2B.
He doesn't like X trades so now we're the Pirates.

Of course JJ can play 2B...

I think at this point that I must respect that
Scotty is fully prepared to die on that hill.

[mattmitchl44]

Wetherholt can have a whole 162 games in St. Louis to learn playing 2B next year - as 2026 isn't about winning anyway.

[Ozziesfan41]

But if he is going to play 2B in MLB why not play him at 2B in the minors? I have yet to hear an explanation that makes sense - and Bernie claiming 2B was his best position when he only played 20 games there in 2025 and 0 games in 2024 is just Bernie fabricating something to make his case for trading Donovan who has a gold glove - as if to say we lose nothing defensively.

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone else on the rosters of those minor league teams that they thought could play SS passably well?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him at SS in case Winn's health raised further concerns?

Or maybe they wanted to keep repping him as SS in case some other team wanted to come make them an offer for him, because they wanted to play him as SS, that they couldn't refuse?

Repping and showcasing him as a SS, even if that doesn't fit with the immediate Cardinals roster, just enhances his value.

I've heard of many of 2B who can't play SS. They're "out of position"
I've never heard of a SS who can't transition to 2B.

Scotch has been creating fanciful arguments all offseason because he doesn't like the direction of the team.

He doesn't like what Bloom is doing so every trade scenario might be like the Betts trade.
He doesn't like Donovan being traded, so he has to argue against JJ being able to play 2B.
He doesn't like X trades so now we're the Pirates.

Of course JJ can play 2B...

I think at this point that I must respect that
Scotty is fully prepared to die on that hill.

If Gorman can play second JJ certainly can

[moose-and-squirrel]

the problem here is actually paying attention to Bernie