Thoughts on Gates, Burns, Pierce, Stone, Crews, etc.

[California Cardinal Fan]

Reading others' posts about Gates, I have mixed feelings. He has taken the team to the Dance 2 of his first three seasons, but they haven't advanced beyond the 2nd round, so I'd say pretty good so far but a lot of work still to be done. My biggest problem with him is that he seems to not even care about guarding the 3 point shot. This has been the case ever since he arrived at Mizzou, so we have to believe this is part of his coaching style that is not likely to change. I think he develops players pretty well, and obviously he's a great recruiter.

His last two transfer portals have left something to be desired. His second season squad was just awful, but it does need to be said that the Tigers suffered serious injury problems with key players in his second season. This year's transfers looked better than they have shown so far. I think there is still upside to be found there, except for Mack, who seems to be a disaster. Northweather, I think, has been a pleasant surprise for the most part, as a substitute who can provide good minutes. Porter is playing well, especially on the boards, and I think he will get better with every game. I think he has potential to get a LOT better. Stone is a discovery, in every aspect of the game, and a dead-on 3pt shooter who brings great energy. He's a player. Phillips is a real plus, better that we might have expected and along with Mitchell capable of controlling the game around the basket. But they have yet to put it all together against high level competition.

As for Mitchell, I really wish he would stop considering himself a big 3pt shooter. Crews, on the other hand, has raised his game a lot, and might even vie for recognition as the conference's best 6th man if he continues as he has so far. He has really blossomed, and I think can get even better.

The injuries are maddening. We know Stone is really hurt, but not how long he will be out or, since this is a hand injury, if he will be the same 3pt marksman he was before he got hurt. We seem to hear nothing of substance about what is ailing Pierce, who the Tigers really need. We know Burns had foot surgery, but after playing a few minutes in a couple of games, he seems to have disappeared again, and I have to wonder if he's going to become another Michael Porter Jr. kind of story.

All in all, I think Mizzou wins against ND if they have Stone, Pierce, and Burns. Even if they have two of those three at full strength, they can be the level of team we were hoping for. But lacking those three pieces, the Tigers look like a lower half SEC team instead of an upper half, maybe even upper third squad.

Just one fan's thoughts.

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

I think it is what it is. They are going to play the five man game where anybody shoots the three. I think they will improve a lot when Stone comes back and Mack loses playing time. He is out of control to the max.

This team can make the opening round of the tournament, but not likely to advance far. That would hold the fort for the incoming top class in the country. That group should lead to some major improvement next season.

I think Gates is still learning, but may need more emphasis on overall defense. The Pierce mystery is just puzzling. He showed flashes last year of being a good player, but as you stated he is out for some reason and it is maddening.

[zuck698]

I think it is what it is. They are going to play the five man game where anybody shoots the three. I think they will improve a lot when Stone comes back and Mack loses playing time. He is out of control to the max.

This team can make the opening round of the tournament, but not likely to advance far. That would hold the fort for the incoming top class in the country. That group should lead to some major improvement next season.

I think Gates is still learning, but may need more emphasis on overall defense. The Pierce mystery is just puzzling. He showed flashes last year of being a good player, but as you stated he is out for some reason and it is maddening.

If I was a betting man, I would guess grades. We have heard about the injusries to Burns and Stone, etc.. But not a peep on Pierce!

[Armchair QB]

I think it is what it is. They are going to play the five man game where anybody shoots the three. I think they will improve a lot when Stone comes back and Mack loses playing time. He is out of control to the max.

This team can make the opening round of the tournament, but not likely to advance far. That would hold the fort for the incoming top class in the country. That group should lead to some major improvement next season.

I think Gates is still learning, but may need more emphasis on overall defense. The Pierce mystery is just puzzling. He showed flashes last year of being a good player, but as you stated he is out for some reason and it is maddening.

If I was a betting man, I would guess grades. We have heard about the injusries to Burns and Stone, etc.. But not a peep on Pierce!

It’s either grades or he has some kind of serious hip injury that won’t heal (I think it was allegedly his hip before). Hoping it’s just grades. Pierce is a difference maker. Long, athletic defender with great instincts. Decent offensive player with lots of upside and doesn’t turn it over much. Would LOVE to get him back.

[Rvrartst]

I have somewhat of a different take on some of these subjects...

Three point defense. Yes, it's maddening that teams get so many open threes against Mizzou. But it seems to be a matter of too much help defense. Guys rotate over to help out on penetration, and leave their man open. A good penetrator and passer, like Burton was for ND, will make you pay for that, and if the guys he's kicking it out to get hot, it will be a disaster, as it was at the end of the game against ND. I don't know the answer, other than living with good penetrators doing their thing, and hoping they can't finish at the rim consistently.

Mack is SUPPOSED to drive to the basket. He seems like a ball hog but that's what he's supposed to do. What he's not supposed to do is jack up threes anytime he's marginally open. He can penetrate, but needs to be that penetrator who looks to pass as much as finish at the rim.

Phillips...unfortunately, I don't think he's that valuable. If you look at the metrics, Mizzou's worst lineups for offense versus defense are almost all when he's on the floor. He's never learned not to put the ball on the floor when being double teamed. He doesn't read double teams and look for the open man. He's a mediocre rebounder at best. His defense is also mediocre. This is what he's been at the other places he's played. It's no surprise.

Porter...not seeing it. Average athletic ability. Mediocre shooter. Pretty good defender, okay rebounder. Not really a rim protector. But...lineups with him at the 5 spot do better than lineups with Phillips, so there is that.

Northweather...does nothing really well, does everything okay. Good for minutes spelling the other bigs.

Robinson will probably come out of his funk, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be a high volume scorer, and they need him to be one.

Mitchell is doing everything you could ask...including making free throws fairly consistently. I suspect the only reason he has the green light to shoot threes is because Gates doesn't want to stifle his NBA ambitions. A guy like Mitchell is not going to star in the NBA unless he can step out and shoot the three. Don't know how much money he's making at Mizzou, but he isn't going to get drafted very high and make some money in the NBA unless teams think he can become a serviceable three point shooter to go with his other attributes.

Seems like about every year under Gates, there is someone on the team that is expected to be a major contributor but ends up with some mysterious "injury" that keeps them from playing. Remember Mosley? Tonje? Maybe these guys are injured, but it's frustrating that there is never a real good explanation. I hope Pierce can contribute at some point during the season. Burns, who knows? Did he turn up sore after playing a bit? Or is Gates just not comfortable playing him in a close game? Stone is going to be a key to this season, so we can only hope he'll return soon.

[California Cardinal Fan]

Rvrartst, we're very close on this.

On Mack, I wouldn't be so hard on him if he were making those moves and then putting up that cozy mid-range jumper as I saw him doing in videos. He's very good at that. But he seems heck bent on going all the way to the basket or tossing up a 3. Mid range is his sweet area and he could be punishing teams with that. So, is he being pressured by staff to go all the way to the basket, which he is NOT doing well?

On Porter, Northweather and Phillips, we'll just have to agree to disagree, though we're not very far apart on those

One thing I missed bringing up, and others have done it, is that Ant is just not playing to score. He's proven in the past he can do that, and he needs to be doing more of it.

Your point about Mitchell is interesting, and had never occurred to me. I don't want to think that could be the case, because I can't make myself believe that Gates would put an individual above the team's best interests. Mitchell needs to do what Mitchell has proven he can hurt other teams with.

The name I keep seeing come up, is Stone. Him staying healthy may be the single biggest key to this team succeeding. Hand injuries are scary, though.

[icon]

Rvrartst, we're very close on this.

On Mack, I wouldn't be so hard on him if he were making those moves and then putting up that cozy mid-range jumper as I saw him doing in videos. He's very good at that. But he seems heck bent on going all the way to the basket or tossing up a 3. Mid range is his sweet area and he could be punishing teams with that. So, is he being pressured by staff to go all the way to the basket, which he is NOT doing well?

On Porter, Northweather and Phillips, we'll just have to agree to disagree, though we're not very far apart on those

One thing I missed bringing up, and others have done it, is that Ant is just not playing to score. He's proven in the past he can do that, and he needs to be doing more of it.

Your point about Mitchell is interesting, and had never occurred to me. I don't want to think that could be the case, because I can't make myself believe that Gates would put an individual above the team's best interests. Mitchell needs to do what Mitchell has proven he can hurt other teams with.

The name I keep seeing come up, is Stone. Him staying healthy may be the single biggest key to this team succeeding. Hand injuries are scary, though.

I believe Stone's injury is to his left hand, not his shooting hand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[California Cardinal Fan]

Yes, I believe it's his left hand, but that hand is very important to the shot process. It both supports and stabilizes shot alignment. That's especially important for long range shots.

[Rvrartst]

Rvrartst, we're very close on this.

On Mack, I wouldn't be so hard on him if he were making those moves and then putting up that cozy mid-range jumper as I saw him doing in videos. He's very good at that. But he seems heck bent on going all the way to the basket or tossing up a 3. Mid range is his sweet area and he could be punishing teams with that. So, is he being pressured by staff to go all the way to the basket, which he is NOT doing well?

On Porter, Northweather and Phillips, we'll just have to agree to disagree, though we're not very far apart on those

One thing I missed bringing up, and others have done it, is that Ant is just not playing to score. He's proven in the past he can do that, and he needs to be doing more of it.

Your point about Mitchell is interesting, and had never occurred to me. I don't want to think that could be the case, because I can't make myself believe that Gates would put an individual above the team's best interests. Mitchell needs to do what Mitchell has proven he can hurt other teams with.

The name I keep seeing come up, is Stone. Him staying healthy may be the single biggest key to this team succeeding. Hand injuries are scary, though.

The thing about Mitchell...we don't know what Gates had to promise him (along with money) to get him to transfer to Mizzou and to NOT transfer elsewhere for this season. It's a whole different ballgame than it used to be, where a coach could do as he saw fit because he had players for three or four years without much worry of them transferring.

[straight out of st louis robert ave]

I have somewhat of a different take on some of these subjects...

Three point defense. Yes, it's maddening that teams get so many open threes against Mizzou. But it seems to be a matter of too much help defense. Guys rotate over to help out on penetration, and leave their man open. A good penetrator and passer, like Burton was for ND, will make you pay for that, and if the guys he's kicking it out to get hot, it will be a disaster, as it was at the end of the game against ND. I don't know the answer, other than living with good penetrators doing their thing, and hoping they can't finish at the rim consistently.

Mack is SUPPOSED to drive to the basket. He seems like a ball hog but that's what he's supposed to do. What he's not supposed to do is jack up threes anytime he's marginally open. He can penetrate, but needs to be that penetrator who looks to pass as much as finish at the rim.

Phillips...unfortunately, I don't think he's that valuable. If you look at the metrics, Mizzou's worst lineups for offense versus defense are almost all when he's on the floor. He's never learned not to put the ball on the floor when being double teamed. He doesn't read double teams and look for the open man. He's a mediocre rebounder at best. His defense is also mediocre. This is what he's been at the other places he's played. It's no surprise.

Porter...not seeing it. Average athletic ability. Mediocre shooter. Pretty good defender, okay rebounder. Not really a rim protector. But...lineups with him at the 5 spot do better than lineups with Phillips, so there is that.

Northweather...does nothing really well, does everything okay. Good for minutes spelling the other bigs.

Robinson will probably come out of his funk, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be a high volume scorer, and they need him to be one.

Mitchell is doing everything you could ask...including making free throws fairly consistently. I suspect the only reason he has the green light to shoot threes is because Gates doesn't want to stifle his NBA ambitions. A guy like Mitchell is not going to star in the NBA unless he can step out and shoot the three. Don't know how much money he's making at Mizzou, but he isn't going to get drafted very high and make some money in the NBA unless teams think he can become a serviceable three point shooter to go with his other attributes.

Seems like about every year under Gates, there is someone on the team that is expected to be a major contributor but ends up with some mysterious "injury" that keeps them from playing. Remember Mosley? Tonje? Maybe these guys are injured, but it's frustrating that there is never a real good explanation. I hope Pierce can contribute at some point during the season. Burns, who knows? Did he turn up sore after playing a bit? Or is Gates just not comfortable playing him in a close game? Stone is going to be a key to this season, so we can only hope he'll return soon.

Rvrartst,

Your post is dead on!
Phillips is supposed to be an excellent rebounder, shot blocker and great point-blank range shooter under the basket.
I watched him closely in the ND game and he was almost non-existent.
Last year, one thing Gray was good at was rebounding. This year, Phillips basically disappears when rebounding.
As for Porter, again he looked clueless in the ND game. Hope he comes out of his funk.
In another post, I said "Wish we has Stone". We would have beat ND if Stone was playing.
Too bad Stone won't be available in Kansas game. Who will step up in Kansas game?