Bernie M. : Why Chaim Bloom MUST trade Brendan Donovant

[dugoutrex]

Bernie is a putz

[mattmitchl44]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

^This.

[BrockFloodMaris]

Bernie is a putz

With a few exceptions, I have largely supported Bernie over the years, but this podcast exposed him to be just another talking head raising their voice to impress the Draft Kings sponsor as a "passionate expert". His shtick is sounding less sincere all the time.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Bernie is a putz

With a few exceptions, I have largely supported Bernie over the years, but this podcast exposed him to be just another talking head raising their voice to impress the Draft Kings sponsor as a "passionate expert". His shtick is sounding less sincere all the time.

He knows a lot, but he is putting out too much content. There isn't enough new news to fill the space he is filling, so he ends up just talking too much. I'm interested in what he has to say, he is spending too many words to say it.

[ScotchMIrish]

Bernie is a putz

With a few exceptions, I have largely supported Bernie over the years, but this podcast exposed him to be just another talking head raising their voice to impress the Draft Kings sponsor as a "passionate expert". His shtick is sounding less sincere all the time.

He knows a lot, but he is putting out too much content. There isn't enough new news to fill the space he is filling, so he ends up just talking too much. I'm interested in what he has to say, he is spending too many words to say it.

it sounded like he was schmoozing up to Bloom. Probably has a nice seat in a luxury suite somewhere.

[ScotchMIrish]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

[mattmitchl44]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

[ecleme22]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

This is akin to complaining about a future corner OFer playing a lot of CF in AAA.

SS to 2b is an easy, common transition.

[mattmitchl44]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

This is akin to complaining about a future corner OFer playing a lot of CF in AAA.

SS to 2b is an easy, common transition.

Yeah, I thought it was very common that you continue to play the hardest defensive position that you can at least nominally play until you absolutely have to move somewhere else.

[rockondlouie]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

JJW's best position is in fact 2nd Base and that's where he'll be planted (hopefully) for the next 10+ years!

[ScotchMIrish]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

[mattmitchl44]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

[ScotchMIrish]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

[mattmitchl44]

He made one mistake. He said Wetherholt's best position is second base. Wetherholt played 61 games at shortstop and only 20 at second base. He might play second base because shortstop is blocked but that's not his best position.

Strange logic. Just because coaches play a minor league prospect at one position more than another doesn’t automatically mean they’re better at the position they played more. It’s about results. The minor league coaches were probably just trying to see what he could do defensively at SS, trying to determine if could handle one of the most demanding positions in the field which would add to his potential future value to the team.

In his 61 games at SS, he had 10 errors. That’s not great.

How did Bernie determine his best position is second base?

Scouts have mostly predicted he would stick at 2b. Google is your friend.

He'll go to the open spot. If that's 2B so be it. There are also scouts that say
he can handle short.

From MLB

" He opened his college career with time at second and third but moved to short in 2024, a transition he continued in the Minors. He has the arm and athleticism to handle the six but will bump into Masyn Winn at the position if he continues up the St. Louis chain, at which time a move elsewhere shouldn't be a major concern."

Yea he’s going to second no question there. There’s zero chance he knocks a gold glove shortstop out of the position anybody thinking he can or will need to lay off the drinking

Might want to take the booze away from the minor league coaches or whoever had him playing shortstop when he should have been learning the 2B position. If Bloom intended to move Donovan he should have intervened but it's possible he didn't even know Wetherholt was playing shortstop.

Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in the future of the organization.

I would imagine the expectation is that, if he plays SS at even just a slightly below average level, he can make the transition to 2B, when needed, pretty quickly and effectively.

I don't know that he needs a lot of reps there to start his ML career as a 2B.

Star prospect installed at second base because he might learn on the job how to avoid the sliding runner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QqEJtuXGQ

I am not at all sure what that is supposed to "prove."

No offense intended but the pivot at second base is unique in the game of baseball. Instead of Wetherholt learning the hard way it would have been better to put him at second base to get some experience. That's what the minor leagues are for. Learn the game in the minor leagues.

I'm clearly wasting my time trying to explain it.

No one is claiming that turning a pivot at 2B isn't different.

But, for a guy who is athletic enough to play SS at even a nominal level, let's not make turning a pivot at 2B out to be rocket science requiring four years of study.

As you noted, he DID play 20 games at 2B, and I'm sure he practiced at 2B as well. So it's not like he's never had to turn a pivot at 2B.

I don't think you have to play 2B exclusively in the minors to learn how to turn a pivot.

[The Nard]

Well, it all depends on the return. If all are only prospects, you have to over-acquire. It's like when you plant a forest - you over-plant by 100 pct., because 50% will die off or be eaten.

But as for his "productive years", I'd bet he has at least 5 remaining. Seriously, I'd make him a serious 5-year extension offer, and if he refuses, then go ahead and make the trade. Again, every competitive team has or needs a "Donovan" on their active roster. Through their best years, the Cardinals always had one. He's a real "gamer" and , when healthy, a real benefit. Hate to lose him for only prospects, who are all only KKrapshoots inthe end.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well, it all depends on the return. If all are only prospects, you have to over-acquire. It's like when you plant a forest - you over-plant by 100 pct., because 50% will die off or be eaten.

But as for his "productive years", I'd bet he has at least 5 remaining. Seriously, I'd make him a serious 5-year extension offer, and if he refuses, then go ahead and make the trade. Again, every competitive team has or needs a "Donovan" on their active roster. Through their best years, the Cardinals always had one. He's a real "gamer" and , when healthy, a real benefit. Hate to lose him for only prospects, who are all only KKrapshoots inthe end.

Tough position. The question as you noted is- does he help the team as much in 1-2 years as his trade return would produce in 3-4 years. Does Donovan or his return fit better in the reboot.