Goold chat 11a.m, today

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Walker must be aware that he is on the fence. If ever that saying applies Walker is it.

Under that level of pressure, it is gonna be a fight to succeed. Mental at the minimum.

If you send him to AAA and he kills, so what. I’ve read it here, that the difference between triple A and MLB is to great to correlate. Doesn’t guarantee success.

He’d be better served with a better game plan pet at bat- look and hit the first pitch fastballs, lay off the late count sweepers.

When that happens, pitchers will then adjust to him. Then you’ll know he has arrived.

Great point that never even crossed my mind. Lots of people could care less how good someone is at AAA (JJ Wetherholt being a recent example). They’re unproven until they hit, and make the adjustment after pitchers figure them out, in order to continue to hit in MLB. If you send him to AAA and he hits for a few months but then struggles again at MLB, you’re back to where you were once again.

[3dender]

Walker must be aware that he is on the fence. If ever that saying applies Walker is it.

Under that level of pressure, it is gonna be a fight to succeed. Mental at the minimum.

If you send him to AAA and he kills, so what. I’ve read it here, that the difference between triple A and MLB is to great to correlate. Doesn’t guarantee success.

He’d be better served with a better game plan pet at bat- look and hit the first pitch fastballs, lay off the late count sweepers.

When that happens, pitchers will then adjust to him. Then you’ll know he has arrived.

Great point that never even crossed my mind. Lots of people could care less how good someone is at AAA (JJ Wetherholt being a recent example). They’re unproven until they hit, and make the adjustment after pitchers figure them out, in order to continue to hit in MLB. If you send him to AAA and he hits for a few months but then struggles again at MLB, you’re back to where you were once again.

I don't think it's that compelling a point.

Between JJ and Walker there's only one guy who has ever shown he can handle AAA at a dominant level. Why the team continues to feel it's unnecessary for the 2nd guy to do that, after 3 years of failure at the next level, is beyond me. At some point doesn't it just make sense to take a step back and make sure he has solved the previous level?

[Carp4Cy]

Walker must be aware that he is on the fence. If ever that saying applies Walker is it.

Under that level of pressure, it is gonna be a fight to succeed. Mental at the minimum.

If you send him to AAA and he kills, so what. I’ve read it here, that the difference between triple A and MLB is to great to correlate. Doesn’t guarantee success.

He’d be better served with a better game plan pet at bat- look and hit the first pitch fastballs, lay off the late count sweepers.

When that happens, pitchers will then adjust to him. Then you’ll know he has arrived.

Great point that never even crossed my mind. Lots of people could care less how good someone is at AAA (JJ Wetherholt being a recent example). They’re unproven until they hit, and make the adjustment after pitchers figure them out, in order to continue to hit in MLB. If you send him to AAA and he hits for a few months but then struggles again at MLB, you’re back to where you were once again.

I don't think it's that compelling a point.

Between JJ and Walker there's only one guy who has ever shown he can handle AAA at a dominant level. Why the team continues to feel it's unnecessary for the 2nd guy to do that, after 3 years of failure at the next level, is beyond me. At some point doesn't it just make sense to take a step back and make sure he has solved the previous level?

It’s actually two years of failure and most of one year of relative success.

Maybe the fact that he’s shown he can hit close to 280 and double digit home runs means the problem is something else, and not that he needs more practice at Aaa

[3dender]

Walker must be aware that he is on the fence. If ever that saying applies Walker is it.

Under that level of pressure, it is gonna be a fight to succeed. Mental at the minimum.

If you send him to AAA and he kills, so what. I’ve read it here, that the difference between triple A and MLB is to great to correlate. Doesn’t guarantee success.

He’d be better served with a better game plan pet at bat- look and hit the first pitch fastballs, lay off the late count sweepers.

When that happens, pitchers will then adjust to him. Then you’ll know he has arrived.

Great point that never even crossed my mind. Lots of people could care less how good someone is at AAA (JJ Wetherholt being a recent example). They’re unproven until they hit, and make the adjustment after pitchers figure them out, in order to continue to hit in MLB. If you send him to AAA and he hits for a few months but then struggles again at MLB, you’re back to where you were once again.

I don't think it's that compelling a point.

Between JJ and Walker there's only one guy who has ever shown he can handle AAA at a dominant level. Why the team continues to feel it's unnecessary for the 2nd guy to do that, after 3 years of failure at the next level, is beyond me. At some point doesn't it just make sense to take a step back and make sure he has solved the previous level?

It’s actually two years of failure and most of one year of relative success.

Maybe the fact that he’s shown he can hit close to 280 and double digit home runs means the problem is something else, and not that he needs more practice at Aaa

He had the same hole in his swing his 1st year, pitchers just hadn't noticed it yet. Pretty common occurrence for rookies to have initial success on a steady diet of FBs. Then the league adjusts and you only stick around as long as you can adjust back.

[cardstatman]

What exactly are we expecting from Jordan Walker at this point? the league figured him out and for the last 2.5 seasons mostly in MLB...

.306 .375 .472 .847 first 160 MLB plate appearances (dear to the bo little harts of Cardinal fans)
.236 .299 .379 .678 last 1,316 plate appearance since 01 Jul 2023 (MLB and AAA)

He's an atrocious fielder (with a good arm), who needs to OPS .800 or better to be an average RF. His fielding will only get worse.

31 runs below average as an fielder compared to other right fielders
24 runs below average as a hitter compared to other right fielders
3 runs below average running the bases
So... if he somehow gets 58 runs runs better, he would still be just an average MLB player.

He's a long shot at this point.Gorman looks like an all star next to Walker. So does Burleson... who has improved tremendously to achieve averageness.

RAA for the beloved three "must get tears" (which describes a Cardinal pitcher when watching any of them wear a glove behind them)
-24 2023 Gorman +9, Walker -16, Burleson -17
-30 2024 Burleson -7, Gorman -9, Walker -14
-40 2025 Burleson +1, Gorman -12, Walker -29

This trio is 94 runs below average for the past 3 years. It would be worse but Gorman and Walker were sent to AAA for signifcant times.

The team as a "hole" is 222 runs below average for the past 3 years. The 3 "must get tears" alone account for 42% of that.

Dylan Carlson was another darling contributing 17 runs below average over those 3 years before they finally dumped him. He'd be the 4th "must get tear".
The rest is mostly just incomplete rosters. You can't complete if your roster's incomplete.

Let's roll with all of them again in 2026! I'm excited.

Sadly, I fear the other team "snickers" when they see our "3 must get tears".

[renostl]

What exactly are we expecting from Jordan Walker at this point? the league figured him out and for the last 2.5 seasons mostly in MLB...

.306 .375 .472 .847 first 160 MLB plate appearances (dear to the bo little harts of Cardinal fans)
.236 .299 .379 .678 last 1,316 plate appearance since 01 Jul 2023 (MLB and AAA)

He's an atrocious fielder (with a good arm), who needs to OPS .800 or better to be an average RF. His fielding will only get worse.

31 runs below average as an fielder compared to other right fielders
24 runs below average as a hitter compared to other right fielders
3 runs below average running the bases
So... if he somehow gets 58 runs runs better, he would still be just an average MLB player.

He's a long shot at this point.Gorman looks like an all star next to Walker. So does Burleson... who has improved tremendously to achieve averageness.

RAA for the beloved three "must get tears" (which describes a Cardinal pitcher when watching any of them wear a glove behind them)
-24 2023 Gorman +9, Walker -16, Burleson -17
-30 2024 Burleson -7, Gorman -9, Walker -14
-40 2025 Burleson +1, Gorman -12, Walker -29

This trio is 94 runs below average for the past 3 years. It would be worse but Gorman and Walker were sent to AAA for signifcant times.

The team as a "hole" is 222 runs below average for the past 3 years. The 3 "must get tears" alone account for 42% of that.

Dylan Carlson was another darling contributing 17 runs below average over those 3 years before they finally dumped him. He'd be the 4th "must get tear".
The rest is mostly just incomplete rosters. You can't complete if your roster's incomplete.

Let's roll with all of them again in 2026! I'm excited.

Sadly, I fear the other team "snickers" when they see our "3 must get tears".

Burleson may no longer be needed to be put in the trio.
The Duo.

He's "okay", without saying improvement wouldn't be great.
Corner outfielder, he's #5 or #6 in SLG or OPS among qualified players.
A team just can't have 2 like him out there. 1B he's slots in at #10.
More athleticism is needed that was known before being drafted.

The other two are the addiction of the potential of a HR.
"chicks love the long ball" and I would too if they provided it.
They need to hit 30. 20 doesn't get there.
Gorman included in a trade will not surprise. Sadly he is looking better
at 2B, 1B and DH. The potentially good
news, the leach is hopefully getting short.

[cardstatman]

Burleson was 20th best offensively among 95 MLB outfielders with 350 PA.
Walker was 2nd worst; Scott was 15th worst; Nootbar was 24th worst.

Burleson was 15th worst defensively among 95 MLB outfielders with 350 PA.
Walker was 25th worst; Nootbar was 30th worst. Scott was 5th best.

54 runs and 69 RBI from a corner OF/DH who is below average defensively even for a corner OF/1B guy.

[renostl]

Burleson was 20th best offensively among 95 MLB outfielders with 350 PA.
Walker was 2nd worst; Scott was 15th worst; Nootbar was 24th worst.

Burleson was 15th worst defensively among 95 MLB outfielders with 350 PA.
Walker was 25th worst; Nootbar was 30th worst. Scott was 5th best.

54 runs and 69 RBI from a corner OF/DH who is below average defensively even for a corner OF/1B guy.

I eliminated CF seems silly IF we are grading him on both sides of the ball.
He is as I posted #5 or #6 in both SLG and OPS in both LF and RF among qualified players.
Never typed Walker, Scott, or Nootbaar names, although I wish they all hit as poorly as AB.

Do you think I am making his offensive number up?
Straight from www.mlb.com/stats/ops?position=RF
You know this stuff and I'm not in any habit to make
stuff up.

You pulled his RAA as a +1, I went with your post.
Well because I have no reason to not trust it.

Your post in which I mostly agreed with had him as part of a trio accounting for -94
runs over 3 season. No need to be confrontational, we're just chatting ball.

In the last season the guy showed improvement. If you went with
just 2025 two are still terrible. What's AB's portion?

The guy has plenty of room for improvement. He's a 1B that is the teams best
corner outfielder.