Rough times dudes

[Bacchk29]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

[Harry S Deals]

Watching Hairy’s projections of this team a couple months ago … to now full on tank

Hahahaha

The problem is - and I don't blame people because there is only so much time in the day - that the vast majority of posters ONLY watch the Blues. So when we get a couple of decent draft picks, they think the rebuild is over. They don't consider that most every team is getting first rounder drafted every year. They don't consider that each team has guys graduating from the minors every year. They definitely don't consider that the Blues - as a whole - are one of the least talented teams in the league on paper. Almost every team in this league has a guy that would be the best player on the Blues. The true contenders have multiple of them and then another few that would be 2nd best.

This was clear to anyone being objective but most here see everything through the Blues...

There were national commentators calling for the Blues to be in the Top 3 in the Central, some even said SC Finals. Given how the Blues ended the season optimism was warranted.
Idk if the Blues are one of the least talented teams its seem to be that the vets havent shown up as they have done throughout their careers and the kids havent overachieved. Basically the Blues needed to fire on all cylinders and they have not.

[theograce]

Watching Hairy’s projections of this team a couple months ago … to now full on tank

Hahahaha

The problem is - and I don't blame people because there is only so much time in the day - that the vast majority of posters ONLY watch the Blues. So when we get a couple of decent draft picks, they think the rebuild is over. They don't consider that most every team is getting first rounder drafted every year. They don't consider that each team has guys graduating from the minors every year. They definitely don't consider that the Blues - as a whole - are one of the least talented teams in the league on paper. Almost every team in this league has a guy that would be the best player on the Blues. The true contenders have multiple of them and then another few that would be 2nd best.

This was clear to anyone being objective but most here see everything through the Blues...

There were national commentators calling for the Blues to be in the Top 3 in the Central, some even said SC Finals.

Post them

[Harry S Deals]

Its really this simple, if the Blues had 12-15 more goals scored what would their record be? this amount is conservatively what Kyrou, Thomas and Buch have done throughout their career and what is missing now.

Kyrou 35 goals PACING FOR 25
Thomas 25 goals PACING FOR 14
Buch 27 goals ish PACING FOR 9 GOALS SCORED THIS YEAR.....

Forget Schenn, diminished, Neighbours, Holloway not really enough data yet, Parayko, whoever

12 more goals scored puts the Blues at 81 goals scored. In November the Blues lost 7 one goal games. Even if those goals scored equaled only 3 more wins, that puts the Blues in a WC spot if not challenging the Wild for 3rd in the Div

[Ziggy3]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

[Harry S Deals]

Since Nov 1st Blues are tied with the 6th fewest GF Blues are middle of the pack in GA

[theograce]

Since Nov 1st Blues are tied with the 6th fewest GF Blues are middle of the pack in GA

And over the last 110 games or so … the Blues are essentially tied with the Flames Hairy

They have fans like you too

[netboy65]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

He’s got no goals only 7 points coughs the puck up and is nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past. How is that giving up on the season?

[Hockey Pete]

I'd like to see a Blues team that has at LEAST one forward line that consistently plays solid fundamental hockey... and a goalie that can consistently stop a difficult shot.

Parayko is NOT our problem, but how the defense as a whole is structured is. We have a bottom pairing defender that's -14, this a guy who skates maybe 10-12 minutes a game. Man I hate that trade...

And DON'T get me started on Kyrou...

[WilliamWestcliffe]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

Exactly. Its not that you can't trade Parayko. The question is "then what?" What is your plan after that? Three part question:

1) This organization literally cannot fill third pairing minutes effectively. So we're going to dump the most veteran, the most reliable minute eating defenseman on the team? Who fills those minutes? What a disaster.

2) The last time we figured a cornerstone defenseman was replaceable, we spent the next 5+ years desperately flailing at replacing him - both through internal draft and develop and through trade - only to find ourselves in this current defensive and financial mess. So, sure trade Parayko, let's kick off the rebuild. How long does it take to re-establish a viable top 4? 3-5 years? Longer?

3) Now that we're firmly in the rebuild conversation, how long do you think this ownership group can survive on rebuild income?

It's normal to want change. I want it too, but there's rational and there's irrational and this organization walks a fine line of sustainability. Trim the fat but beware cutting too close to bone.

[theograce]

Its really this simple, if the Blues had 12-15 more goals scored what would their record be?

The Flames could say the same thing guy

[DawgDad]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

He’s got no goals only 7 points coughs the puck up and is nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past. How is that giving up on the season?

To me the much more intriguing question or issue is WHY?

Aside from the forward power outage Fowler, Parayko, and Broberg have THREE goals total in 27 games played by each. The Blues are playing a top-9 center who has ZERO even strength goals in 17 games, and his ice time is on the rise. WHY?

[Bacchk29]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

Exactly. Its not that you can't trade Parayko. The question is "then what?" What is your plan after that? Three part question:

1) This organization literally cannot fill third pairing minutes effectively. So we're going to dump the most veteran, the most reliable minute eating defenseman on the team? Who fills those minutes? What a disaster.

2) The last time we figured a cornerstone defenseman was replaceable, we spent the next 5+ years desperately flailing at replacing him - both through internal draft and develop and through trade - only to find ourselves in this current defensive and financial mess. So, sure trade Parayko, let's kick off the rebuild. How long does it take to re-establish a viable top 4? 3-5 years? Longer?

3) Now that we're firmly in the rebuild conversation, how long do you think this ownership group can survive on rebuild income?

It's normal to want change. I want it too, but there's rational and there's irrational and this organization walks a fine line of sustainability. Trim the fat but beware cutting too close to bone.

No really, you can’t trade him because of his contract, but you can cut his minutes and find out if other guys can fill the situations better. He’s 32. He’s also not a #1 as some of us have been saying for years.

[WilliamWestcliffe]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

He’s got no goals only 7 points coughs the puck up and is nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past. How is that giving up on the season?

To me the much more intriguing question or issue is WHY?

Aside from the forward power outage Fowler, Parayko, and Broberg have THREE goals total in 27 games played by each. The Blues are playing a top-9 center who has ZERO even strength goals in 17 games, and his ice time is on the rise. WHY?

Complicated and probably multi-faceted:

1. Monty talked at the beginning of the year about shifting defensive strategy to more of a zone. I don't know if he's still trying to make that adjustment but we saw that repeatedly with Van Ryn with the same results. Ultimately the coaches reverted to man defense and Van Ryn was canned.
2. The third pairing is such a liability that it has impacted pairings, matchups, zone starts, etc. All of that saddles the top four with less desirable opportunities and in some cases having to babysit a [shirt]ty pairing partner.
3. We can't get the puck out of the defensive zone. Our scoring forward group, namely Schenn, Buchnevich, Thomas, Kryou and even Holloway are massively struggling at our defensive blue-line which is causing the defense to get pinned in. This is especially problematic because its our offensive lines that should be generating ozone pressure allowing guys like Fowler, Parayko and Broberg to attack vs. defend.
4. We've lost some pretty stable puck moving defensemen in Suter and Leddy. Same issue as above.
5. The forecheck and offensive zone time is horrendous. The lack of down low board battles behind the offensive net means our defense has no opportunity to setup on the blue line. Its all one and gun transition hockey.

The aging contracts on this team were massively fumbled. Montgomery is trying to milk dead oranges to jump start some of the failing vets, but the truth is they need to start reducing their TOI and roles.

[Younghopp1991]

Seattle had said before about about the pieces you could essentially get for thomas if you could trade him. I wonder what the reset looks like without thomas, parayko, schenn and faulk. With the young guys we currently have + the pieces in return + our our own picks with a couple real low years.

I may be wrong but i think fans will still show up to watch the turnover. You can still be a fun product with a losing record. So i dont agree with the idea that the owners would have to sell.

I do understand that maybe today isnt the day, but at some point there is going to be a bunch of people upset we didnt sell high on parayko because we may have a false sense of where our talent level is/will be.

[WilliamWestcliffe]

At this point for me trade Binnington, Parayko and Schenn now, turn it over to faster slightly more skilled younger guys who will compete for pucks.

Schenn has 4 goals in 27 games and hes a -16. I fully believe if given 16+ TOI per night Kaskimaki could score 4 times and not be a -16. Kaskimaki can skate well and will check and hound pucks, not drift around slowly bobble pucks and not be able to literally pass or shoot.

Trade Binnie now and promote Zherenko, Hofer is the starter. Yes the Blues have made glaring turnovers, but believe it or not sometimes a goalie has to STILL make the save. Goals being tipped from 30' away is not an excuse then when i saw Bummingtons tantrum that was it for me. .878 save pct is not ALL about the team defense

Trade Parayko, something is off with him hes either injured or past him prime who knows but hes not the same players hes been for the last few years. You want to talk about Buch being a bad contract what about Parayko? $6.5 NTC till '28-'29. Bad looking deal right now

Buch Thomas Kyrou
Neigbours Dvorsky Snuggerud
Holloway Bjudstad Joseph
Kaskimaki Suter Sunny

Broberg Faulk
Fowler Kessel
Tucker Mailloux

Hofer
Zhernko

Is this really any worse

The forum will tell you here that you can’t trade Parayko , so we can never move on from him. They have him penciled in the lineup until 2040

It’s comical the overvalue this place has for him for years. Can’t we at least give someone else his minutes. To me Broberg needs to be given the minutes and multiple situations to see if we want to pay him.

Well right now Broberg and Parayko are D partners and neither gets PP minutes, so their minutes should be nearly identical.

But again, sure, trade him or whatever, but I don't see how that is anything but waving the white flag on this season at least. "Overvaluing" someone is different than realizing what a player means to THIS team right now. He's still overall your best D-man and a team leader; 1-2 weeks of good hockey from Broberg doesn't change that yet.

Exactly. Its not that you can't trade Parayko. The question is "then what?" What is your plan after that? Three part question:

1) This organization literally cannot fill third pairing minutes effectively. So we're going to dump the most veteran, the most reliable minute eating defenseman on the team? Who fills those minutes? What a disaster.

2) The last time we figured a cornerstone defenseman was replaceable, we spent the next 5+ years desperately flailing at replacing him - both through internal draft and develop and through trade - only to find ourselves in this current defensive and financial mess. So, sure trade Parayko, let's kick off the rebuild. How long does it take to re-establish a viable top 4? 3-5 years? Longer?

3) Now that we're firmly in the rebuild conversation, how long do you think this ownership group can survive on rebuild income?

It's normal to want change. I want it too, but there's rational and there's irrational and this organization walks a fine line of sustainability. Trim the fat but beware cutting too close to bone.

No really, you can’t trade him because of his contract, but you can cut his minutes and find out if other guys can fill the situations better. He’s 32. He’s also not a #1 as some of us have been saying for years.

A) every single team in this league is picking up the phone on a Parayko trade. Every. Single. Team.
B) WHO? Who are you suggesting is taking over his minutes if you cut him back? Name them? And then explain to me why said player(s) aren't currently eating up the third pairings minutes? There is ZERO shortage of opportunity for playing time in this defensive group. The problem is that no one beyond Parayko and Broberg are demonstrating any ability to do so reliably.