DA's Big Trade

[DoneLurking]

ZB was a loss, not gonna argue it wasn't. That said, our pipeline has guys to replace him. Where we were thin was RHD. One of the most coveted positions. No one can be 100% sure how this works out until a couple of season have gone. For me it was worth the risk. Dealing from strength for an area of need is what GMs do. If LM can be a steady top 4 defenseman then it was worth the cost even if ZB scores 30 goals at some point. LM was projected to go in the top 10 his draft year, after falling because he did something stupid and requested to not be drafted at all. Montreal took a chance and it worked out for them as it netted them ZB when they had plenty on young D. If LM works his way into a top pair defenseman then we won this trade hands down. GM's take chances sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I would rather Army take the chance then be the Cardnals front office of the past and be risk averse. I like our odds in this one.

Is the bolded true? I've seen this quoted a lot. Some said Top5 around the time the blues traded for him. But while I'm not a draft expert by any means, I do try to follow it when you see predicted lists come out. I don't remember ever seeing his name that high, even before his off ice stuff came to light.

[TheJackBurton]

ZB was a loss, not gonna argue it wasn't. That said, our pipeline has guys to replace him. Where we were thin was RHD. One of the most coveted positions. No one can be 100% sure how this works out until a couple of season have gone. For me it was worth the risk. Dealing from strength for an area of need is what GMs do. If LM can be a steady top 4 defenseman then it was worth the cost even if ZB scores 30 goals at some point. LM was projected to go in the top 10 his draft year, after falling because he did something stupid and requested to not be drafted at all. Montreal took a chance and it worked out for them as it netted them ZB when they had plenty on young D. If LM works his way into a top pair defenseman then we won this trade hands down. GM's take chances sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I would rather Army take the chance then be the Cardnals front office of the past and be risk averse. I like our odds in this one.

Is the bolded true? I've seen this quoted a lot. Some said Top5 around the time the blues traded for him. But while I'm not a draft expert by any means, I do try to follow it when you see predicted lists come out. I don't remember ever seeing his name that high, even before his off ice stuff came to light.

I'm not sure about top 10 but definitely top 15 so top 10 would likely be in a few scouts draft boards. Consensus though I'm not sure about that.

[rangergiff]

You never know for sure but there were a lot of draft gurus that had in in the top 10. I remembered his story when we traded for him, so I tried to go back and look at the time and found one writer had him at 5. He has a very coveted skillset for his position and would certainly not have lasted past 20. Not saying he will pan out only saying that his draft stock was high until he did something stupid.

[Hazelwood72]

Still the same for me.

Glad we have Mailloux in the system, still think Army way over estimated the market for Mailloux and got schooled on the return.

I wouldn't expect my opinion to change as its not based on future play as much as market value at the time of the trade.

I respectfully disagree.

If that's the standard then Keenan deserved to be fired immediately for trading a 100 point winger for a lanky scrub who couldn't get out of his own end.

lol Pronger was a #2 OA pick.

I'm going to ask, are you under 45?

1993-94 5g 25a 30pts -3
1994-95 5g 9a 14pts -12 (43 games - Lockout)

Traded to St. Louis, July 27, 1995.

1995-96 7g 18a 25pts -18

I hated the trade, and I hated Pronger. He sucked, it was embarrassing. Keenan would scream at him "Do you know who I traded for you?!?!?!". He couldn't make an outlet pass to save his life. He looked like Bambi. The acquisition of Gretzky saved his (donkey) because people forgot about him, they were watching Wayne. It was so bad, he mentioned it in his speech when they retired his number. I was wrong. Ended up loving the guy. It took a couple years.

Truth

Yep, I was a huge Shanny fan and a huge Pronger hater too, at first. But I also remember my first beer also.

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

[blues2112]

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

Falstaff! Yes!

Dad also drank that (grandpa drank Stag), and switched to 905 Light.

[TheJackBurton]

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

Falstaff! Yes!

Dad also drank that (grandpa drank Stag), and switched to 905 Light.

Stag hurts to drink. My god the hangover I had from that was enough to last a lifetime.

[blues2112]

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

Falstaff! Yes!

Dad also drank that (grandpa drank Stag), and switched to 905 Light.

Stag hurts to drink. My god the hangover I had from that was enough to last a lifetime.

My grandson genetically inherited MY Stag hangover from 35 years ago!

[skilles]

Still the same for me.

Glad we have Mailloux in the system, still think Army way over estimated the market for Mailloux and got schooled on the return.

I wouldn't expect my opinion to change as its not based on future play as much as market value at the time of the trade.

Skills I'm glad you are happy to have Mailloux on board but then to say DA gave too much no matter how the trade turns out just seems an inconsequential position and silly to me.

I mean most here would agree the Blues gave up a lot on balance that day, perhaps obviously so, meaning more in KNOWN aspects between the two players. If that's your only point then fine. But still that will indeed mean nothing if the trade works for the Blues. I think for all of us that's whats important...the next 5 to 10 years potentially speaking, not what happened on trade day.

I'm pretty sure DA knew he was giving a lot up front as well but he based his risk factor upon scouting and personal knowledge after looking the kid over pretty good, likely already aware of him and his situation.

Basically the jury remains out on all of this but if it comes back to the Blues favor I won't be the one saying DA got schooled.

Well I don't really do the think like everyone else thing, I can't even wrap my head around it to be honest. The trade was made in this year and is subject to the market value of the assets exchanged at that time.

Like when I go buy a truck, Paying way over market value was not a good idea just because the truck later happens to last a long time, the value is based on the market when I bought the truck.

Just to rehash I'm glad we traded for Mailloux but I think we were bluffed into bidding against ourselves and that we were vulnerable because Army desperately wanted to secure his legacy(not leave the d a depleted mess)

You might think I'm silly but that is a 2 way street, A GM's biggest job is his ability to play this game. Army has done it really well at times but he blinked on this deal IMO.

Which is why I'm not a fan of this long transition stuff.

[82birds]

I hope people don’t view me as comparing these two trades from the actual talent level of the players, but more using it as a similar example of a potential hockey trade.

Today, Blues are losing the trade, as Bolduc is, and should continue to be, a 20 goal scorer. Maybe more, but not sure yet. Mailloux has 20+ NHL games and is super raw.

My comparison (again not talent level!!!) is when we dealt Shanny for Pronger. Talented and proven scorer for a raw, but higher sought after position, defenseman in Pronger. He was cursed, booed, and criticized unmercifully. In the end Shanny was an awesome power forward who had a great career. Pronger became a HOF defenseman. Both won cups and had great careers.

Today we lost a solid 20 goal scorer. If LM can become a solid top 4 Dman and have a good long career, it becomes a good trade. If he becomes a top 2 Dman, we can say we won.

My two cents.

certainly true about today, IMO.
many more todays ahead.

[BluesDom]

We talk about this trade almost daily. Gonna have to wait longer to see the result. LM looks way better as of late.
Blues look to be the big winners if it keeps going the way it's going. Let's revisit this in the spring.

[TheJackBurton]

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

Falstaff! Yes!

Dad also drank that (grandpa drank Stag), and switched to 905 Light.

Stag hurts to drink. My god the hangover I had from that was enough to last a lifetime.

My grandson genetically inherited MY Stag hangover from 35 years ago!

ha. Well done.

My first beer was PBR with the pull tab. Didn't touch another beer for 10 years after that. I'm not talking I only drank PBR, I mean it was horrid enough to get me to switch to liquor.

[Frank Underwood]

My dad would drink PBR, Hamm’s, Stag, or Miller. I finally figured out that it was a strategic decision on his part, his way of making sure me and my brothers wouldn’t steal his beer!

[TheJackBurton]

My dad would drink PBR, Hamm’s, Stag, or Miller. I finally figured out that it was a strategic decision on his part, his way of making sure me and my brothers wouldn’t steal his beer!

Yep, and my father also drank Jack Daniels and not many 18 year olds are going to drink whiskey so he had it all figured out.

[DawgDad]

My earliest memories are my Dad drinking Falstaff or Schlitz, my uncle drank Hamms. Dad switched to Budweiser by the 60s but by then he was primarily drinking bourbon (Ancient Age, later C&G).

I don't touch any of that stuff. Strictly quality German lagers and seasonal Marzens, my primary bourbon or rye is Basil Hayden.

[blackinkbiz]

Right now, some 25 games in.

For me, I take the same risk DA took then and do the same deal today.

I know Zach is doing pretty good but I guess I'm seeing less risk with Logan and that big RHD return being still worth it.

......how do ya'll view the Bolduc for Mailloux trade today?

Feel better about it today than I did two weeks ago.

Mailloux's looked drastically better but I don't agree with those who say Bolduc's a JAG. Bolduc averaged more GPG at a younger age in the QMJHL than Carbonneau has, and many predict Carbs to be a future star.

From what I've seen the last few games I do think Mail could be a younger version of Petro but both he and Bolduc are still unknowns--though Bolduc's unknown is his ceiling, not his floor.

Would have preferred to make this or a similar trade a year or two from know when each team has a better idea of excatly what they're getting in return but, oh well, not a total bust atm so I guess we shall see.

[zuck698]

I remember my first beer. It was from my dad’s Falstaff mini-keg in the basement fridge — was great because he couldn’t really tell that I was sneaking som. It was well before my first LEGAL beer, which was the night I turned 21 and me and a buddy who was 3 days older went to Erio’s Pizza at Cross Keys shopping center at New Halls Ferry & Lindbergh.

Anyone other ancient guys from North County like me who remember Erio’s???

Falstaff! Yes!

Dad also drank that (grandpa drank Stag), and switched to 905 Light.

Stag hurts to drink. My god the hangover I had from that was enough to last a lifetime.

My grandson genetically inherited MY Stag hangover from 35 years ago!

ha. Well done.

My first beer was PBR with the pull tab. Didn't touch another beer for 10 years after that. I'm not talking I only drank PBR, I mean it was horrid enough to get me to switch to liquor.

Red, White, and Blue for me at age 15. PBR light I guess.