Sammy Sosa . . . HOF?

[ClassicO]

Facts: Bonds did not get 75% of the ballot in his 10 years of eligibility. He can now get in with a special Contemporary Era Committee (post-1980) if he gets 12 of 16 votes. Bonds is one of 6 batters on the ballot for this Dec. 7th. https://www.mlb.com/news/contemporary-b ... t-for-2025
Any candidate that does not receive at least five of 16 votes in multiple appearances on Era Committee ballots will not be eligible for future ballot consideration.
Likewise, Sosa and Clemens have failed to receive the 75% of votes needed for induction before their 10th and final year on the BBWAA ballot. Sosa is not on the ballot this year; Clemens is.

I guess if I had a vote, I'd consider all the facts surrounding the players' use: how great were they before their stats obviously went up significantly, and would they likely have been elected in any case? Bonds - yes. Clemens - yes. But both saw a ridiculous trend upward after the obvious use.

Here's a great article on the pre- and post-use stats for both: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/328 ... ped-factor.

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Instead of hitting 73 home runs in 2001, the ZiPS projection suggests Bonds would have hit only 23 that year, plus or minus a couple. And where he actually hit 209 homers during the four seasons (2001 to 2004) he used the BALCO concoction, he was projected to hit just 66 during those four years.

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[Goldfan]

Did he hit off of Juiced Pitchers??
Did all players during steroid era put up HOF numbers??? NO, so this argument that steroids made all players durning that time produce HOF numbers is stupid

[JohnMcC]

Another thing to consider is the number of pitchers (not just Clemens) who were juicing. Helps with recovery. Eric Gagne had 70+ saves...sure he did... Eventually, I expect all of them will get in...

[82birds]

No one Bonds no on Sosa.

^^ THIS ^^

[nebfan]

Maybe after McGwire and Clemens get in

[HOUCARD]

Would not surprise me if a couple of Clemen's buddies, on the Astros, were juicing too. A couple little guys with quite a bit of power, for their size. I'm convinced Kenny Rogers was juicing when the Cards took them down in 2006. I watched him throw nothing but trash for years with the Rangers. He never touched 90mph the entire time. Then suddenly, in his early 40's, he's hitting the low 90's.

[An Old Friend]

Would not surprise me if a couple of Clemen's buddies, on the Astros, were juicing too. A couple little guys with quite a bit of power, for their size. I'm convinced Kenny Rogers was juicing when the Cards took them down in 2006. I watched him throw nothing but trash for years with the Rangers. He never touched 90mph the entire time. Then suddenly, in his early 40's, he's hitting the low 90's.

Jeff Bagwell
Ken Caminiti
Richard Hidalgo
Luis Gonzalez

Biggio didn’t participate and from what I understand, was always clean.

Jeff Kent eventually made his way to Houston but started before he got there.
Age 24-29: .779 OPS, 106 OPS+
Age 30-37: .908 OPS, 136 OPS+

[RamFan08NY]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

I forgot about Ortiz…how the hell did he slip through the cracks? McGwire was on a non-banned substance (at the time) and he didn’t get in.

In my opinion, had Ortiz broke records like Bonds, Mac, clemons and Sosa, he wouldn't be in. As weird as it may sound , I think the writers game him a pass because he didn't rewrite any records, and he always had the fun lovin personality. Thats just the way the voters think.

[HOUCARD]

Would not surprise me if a couple of Clemen's buddies, on the Astros, were juicing too. A couple little guys with quite a bit of power, for their size. I'm convinced Kenny Rogers was juicing when the Cards took them down in 2006. I watched him throw nothing but trash for years with the Rangers. He never touched 90mph the entire time. Then suddenly, in his early 40's, he's hitting the low 90's.

Jeff Bagwell
Ken Caminiti
Richard Hidalgo
Luis Gonzalez

Biggio didn’t participate and from what I understand, was always clean.

Jeff Kent eventually made his way to Houston but started before he got there.
Age 24-29: .779 OPS, 106 OPS+
Age 30-37: .908 OPS, 136 OPS+

Caminiti was well known. Bagwell was the one I was thinking about but the rest of your list is probably on the money too.

[Goldfan]

Seems like many experts on this board.

Can you provide the complete list of players during that period who were:

-Using steroids
-What steroids they were using
-length of steroid use
-Create separate list for hitters/Pitchers

Without knowing all these details, not just assumptions and conjecture, I don’t think anyone alive can sit and cherry pick the innocent.

[Bomber1]

Absolutely not!

Double cheater steroid freak who corked his bats as well.

I don’t care what his “stats” are.

[Bomber1]

I’m still muffed. Face first. Nose deep.

I’m a pretty good ball player. Other than strength thus power, how do steroids help hit a major leagues pitch.

How does it help with contact rate. Exit velocity. Barrel rate. Pitch recognition. I still don’t see the connection.

Seems only thing measured is- more homeruns. Not doubles, or singles, just the homeruns.

You would think if they hit harder and further, more line drives would rip off defenses gloves; pop ups to hit roofs, tape measure home runs.

My thoughts are on the actual batted balls.

it's about the muscle twitch.. allows batters to wait longer and recognize pitches better (adderal as well). there's a reason you couldn't get a pitch by Bonds after he started juicing

who was that little CF'er that all of a sudden became a 50hr guy? can't remember his name. all the proof ya need tho

Brady Anderson

[ScotchMIrish]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

[Goldfan]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

You should read up on Gaylord Perry and Neikro brothers…..

[Goldfan]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

You should read up on Gaylord Perry and Neikro brothers…..

Admission: Perry openly discussed doctoring baseballs with substances like Vaseline, K-Y jelly, and even fishing line oil. In his 1974 autobiography, Me and the Spitter, he detailed how he used the illegal pitch to gain an advantage.
22yr career
HOF

[ScotchMIrish]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

You should read up on Gaylord Perry and Neikro brothers…..

Roids determined the outcome of multiple world series champions.