So the Cardinals spent $20 million for 1 decent prospect

[ChiefSTL]

Who cares about the money spent? We saved $20 million for a guy that wasn't going to be here in 2 years, and got a top 100 prospect and another young arm. Use that $20 million saved wisely and we get even more from this deal.

[alw80]

Clarke is a decent big-arm prospect with injury history.

Fitts is just pitching depth, maybe a 5th starter type, with some injury history.

Decent salary dump at end of day.

That being said, Sonny Gray will get lit up in the AL East pitching in those ballparks.

No, they saved $15M and got two good pieces.

$20M

and two good pieces!

Gray was going to make $35m right? Either way it's a great move.

+ $5M buyout

Cardinals are paying $20M of his salary and save another $20M

Agreed, it's a great move

I figured the buyout was now Bostons problem. Oh well.

[imetsatchelpaige]

Clarke is a decent big-arm prospect with injury history.

Fitts is just pitching depth, maybe a 5th starter type, with some injury history.

Decent salary dump at end of day.

That being said, Sonny Gray will get lit up in the AL East pitching in those ballparks.

No, they saved $15M and got two good pieces.

$20M

and two good pieces!

I remember, back in the day. I could spend 20 dollars for a piece; and it didn’t even have to be good. Times have changed.

Talk about blowing it.

[RamFan08NY]

Clarke is a decent big-arm prospect with injury history.

Fitts is just pitching depth, maybe a 5th starter type, with some injury history.

Decent salary dump at end of day.

That being said, Sonny Gray will get lit up in the AL East pitching in those ballparks.

No, they saved $15M and got two good pieces.

$20M

and two good pieces!

I remember, back in the day. I could spend 20 dollars for a piece; and it didn’t even have to be good. Times have changed.

And a nickle bag was.......um.....5 bucks.

[Carp4Cy]

Gray was effectively worthless to a rebuilding Cardinals team in 2026.

They got a substantial prospect return.

FG notes bottom lines.

Clarke - He merits development as a starter just to see if things work out, but in all likelihood Clarke’s future rests in late-inning relief. Don’t let the relief projection undersell his prospectdom, this is the sort of stuff you see at the end of games in October; monstrous, overwhelming, door-slamming stuff. [My note - if he develops a third pitch, he's a high level SP prospect.]

Fitts - He can attack all quadrants of the zone and his velocity has been trending up across the last two years, going from averaging 93 to averaging 95 on either side of his shoulder issue. It has boosted Fitts' projection from that of a stable backend starter to a big league-ready no. 4 option.

So Fitts is a major downgrade in the 2026 rotation, and still a major injury risk where we might need to still sign 2-3 more FA type pitchers just to get thru a full season.

Clarke walked 8 /9IP in A+. He's so far away you can't even begin to count on him ever contributing at this point. Its just a lotto ticket. You can buy 100 of them and miss on every one.

Bloom and Co.'s job is to make sure that they identified the right prospects to acquire and can develop them so that they don't miss (or that they miss infrequently).

"miss" is relative. If you stockpile a ton of complimentary players and even bullpen arms and backend of the rotatation starters and develop them into what they need to be, you can say you've done your job, but meanwhile the Texas or Houston GM can fill all those same roles by simply signing some moderate priced vets and making MLB trades. All this hard work necessitated by Bill wanting to be cheaper than he actually has to be, and even still it doesn't build a franchise core. We need Bobby Witt types for that, and either come from drafting them yourselves or trading for them once they are already in the MLB and paying talent to get them.

I'm all for Bloom drafting and developing the best players he can in the draft, but this money for lotto ticket business is not going to contribute to the franchise core, and may not really even move the needle. I want to see the moves that do move the needle. Bring JJ up, develop Doyle and Franklin on the fast track. Get Matthew Back on Track. Reclaim Walker. Maybe even Gorman. Pick a future C and make them our staff mentor. These are Our guys - I want to see big movement in their progress and stats. And then adding some real top talent around them, and not waiting until 2028 when Winn is on the backside of his years of control either and Libby nearly a FA.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

Both were/are FV50 and ranked exactly the same as Quinn Mathews.

You're not going to get more for Gray.

"You're not going to get more for Gray."

I dont' disagree. But I think we sure could have gotten a lot more for that caliber of veteran in 2008 or 1998 than we did now - which just shows how overvalued other teams "prospects" have evolved to become over the decades.

In some if not many cases, you could get "more" out of Gray than "for" Gray. This is even more true with the Nado and Goldie trades with CO and AZ.

[Clubmaker2]

Clarke is a decent big-arm prospect with injury history.

Fitts is just pitching depth, maybe a 5th starter type, with some injury history.

Decent salary dump at end of day.

That being said, Sonny Gray will get lit up in the AL East pitching in those ballparks.

No, they saved $15M and got two good pieces.

no, they have to pay for the replacement starting pitcher to take Grays spot, whats that another 10 mil?

[WaltsSuccessor]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

[dugoutrex]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

we will still have to pay another pitcher (10 million?) to take Sonny's spot

[WaltsSuccessor]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

we will still have to pay another pitcher (10 million?) to take Sonny's spot

Then by all means consider that a reallocation of the $20m savings on the Gray trade. But we didn't spend $20m on the two players from Boston, as the OP states.

[dugoutrex]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

we will still have to pay another pitcher (10 million?) to take Sonny's spot

Then by all means consider that a reallocation of the $20m savings on the Gray trade. But we didn't spend $20m on the two players from Boston, as the OP states.

prolly dropped a couple hundred thousand off the already low attendance numbers as well!

[WaltsSuccessor]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

we will still have to pay another pitcher (10 million?) to take Sonny's spot

Then by all means consider that a reallocation of the $20m savings on the Gray trade. But we didn't spend $20m on the two players from Boston, as the OP states.

prolly dropped a couple hundred thousand off the already low attendance numbers as well!

1. It's not even Thanksgiving yet. Maybe wait until mid January until we whine about any projected ML roster. Give the man some time to make other moves.
2. I'm not sure Gray was some huge attendance draw... even if we drop from 78 wins to 73 wins, you're probably not talking that much more impact to attendance. The expectations were low with or without Sonny.

[dugoutrex]

it's all about the tank for me as well as most who have still been attending games

[hornetfb52]

What was everybody expecting to get for a declining 36 year old 5 inning pitcher. Some need to alter their ****ing expectations.

[ICCFIM2]

Gray was effectively worthless to a rebuilding Cardinals team in 2026.

They got a substantial prospect return.

FG notes bottom lines.

Clarke - He merits development as a starter just to see if things work out, but in all likelihood Clarke’s future rests in late-inning relief. Don’t let the relief projection undersell his prospectdom, this is the sort of stuff you see at the end of games in October; monstrous, overwhelming, door-slamming stuff. [My note - if he develops a third pitch, he's a high level SP prospect.]

Fitts - He can attack all quadrants of the zone and his velocity has been trending up across the last two years, going from averaging 93 to averaging 95 on either side of his shoulder issue. It has boosted Fitts' projection from that of a stable backend starter to a big league-ready no. 4 option.

So Fitts is a major downgrade in the 2026 rotation, and still a major injury risk where we might need to still sign 2-3 more FA type pitchers just to get thru a full season.

Clarke walked 8 /9IP in A+. He's so far away you can't even begin to count on him ever contributing at this point. Its just a lotto ticket. You can buy 100 of them and miss on every one.

Bloom and Co.'s job is to make sure that they identified the right prospects to acquire and can develop them so that they don't miss (or that they miss infrequently).

"miss" is relative. If you stockpile a ton of complimentary players and even bullpen arms and backend of the rotatation starters and develop them into what they need to be, you can say you've done your job, but meanwhile the Texas or Houston GM can fill all those same roles by simply signing some moderate priced vets and making MLB trades. All this hard work necessitated by Bill wanting to be cheaper than he actually has to be, and even still it doesn't build a franchise core. We need Bobby Witt types for that, and either come from drafting them yourselves or trading for them once they are already in the MLB and paying talent to get them.

I'm all for Bloom drafting and developing the best players he can in the draft, but this money for lotto ticket business is not going to contribute to the franchise core, and may not really even move the needle. I want to see the moves that do move the needle. Bring JJ up, develop Doyle and Franklin on the fast track. Get Matthew Back on Track. Reclaim Walker. Maybe even Gorman. Pick a future C and make them our staff mentor. These are Our guys - I want to see big movement in their progress and stats. And then adding some real top talent around them, and not waiting until 2028 when Winn is on the backside of his years of control either and Libby nearly a FA.

Didn't this trade do some of what you suggest? Clark is graded as the same level prospect as Mathews and probably has a higher upside. He is downgraded some due to injuries. They both have control issues. It is now up to the Cards to develop both of them. Fitts is potentially a decent rotation filler who if healthy could be a back end starter for the next 5 years. Yes, we have other guys like that. But, if his floor is higher than Mikolas has been the last 2 years, then that is a win. It also frees up $20M to spend on other players. I assume the Cards will sign a veteran SP this offseason who will be OK. This trade freed up the money to do that while adding talent to the pool. On the face of it, it was an outstanding trade. Whether it works out, only time will tell.

[renostl]

False. They saved the $20m that Boston is now going to pay Gray. AND they got two players. One for the 2026 roster, and one high-end lottery ticket for the future.

The $20m the Cardinals are committed to was already spent when Gray signed on the dotted line two years ago.

Finally a GM that understands sunk costs.

1 season of a $40 million Gray has turned into possibly 2-4 pitchers or 2
pitchers and a CFer.

I'll set back and watch for a bit.

To counter a lot of this "should of been better" and "damaged goods"
talks. I'm very sure that there'd be the same talk regardless of the return.

The #5 per MLB in the Cards system is Mathews. Would Cards fans be happy giving up Mathews, Pallante,
$21 million and a PTBNL or cash for one year of Sonny? I think the Cards would have to have at least 2 very solid
rotation pitchers to entertain doing anything like that. There's an argument that both of the exRed Sox
players rate higher than Mathews and Pallante.

[Clubmaker2]

What was everybody expecting to get for a declining 36 year old 5 inning pitcher. Some need to alter their ****ing expectations.

uh, 19th in innings pitched in MLB. Also 39th in ERA. That what make him a huge upper number 2 innings eater?