Rebuilding Checklist

[rockondlouie]

Combine dedication to prospect development with a future $170, $180 million payroll and see where that gets you.

Riddle me this matt.....

How are you going to get BDWJr back to that $180M by losing for the next two-three-four years which will equal attendance at or under 2M KNOWING that BDWJr has ALWAYS stated that ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL?

2M or less = under $130M payroll.

You really see him adding $50+M the season after drawing 2M?

Not me when the man has told us for decades ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL.

This is why you need to field a competitive team, within reason and while not losing site of the LT goal, while re-building.

I've said over and over again - ownership needs to be prepared to "advance spend" by one offseason when the team is ready to come out of this rebuilding phase.

Whatever money has been "saved" during the rebuild should be put towards bringing in the necessary players once the foundation of young players is in place, but maybe one offseason before attendance jumps back up to 2.5M, 3M, etc.

You can "say" it all you want matt, you're not BDWJr.

And we all know what Dewitt has said since he bought the team, also echoed by Fredo (aka: BDWIII):

ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL

Tank for three-four seasons (you even said if this crop of prospects fails, then tank until 2031/2032 ) like you've been calling for months for them to do and attendance will continue to plummet.

That cascading attendance will keep payroll (likely) well under $130M and Dewitt WILL NOT (unless he's had a Christmas Carol like visit) raise the payroll to $180M UNTIL he gets 3+M attending.

C. Bloom knows this, why he's said even though he won't take his eye off the LT goal he also won't concede any season, including 2026!

I know what you have said because you say it every time.

Whatever has been said in the past belongs in the context of the past when the Cardinals payroll never systematically dropped by 40% or 50% for a few years. Now the organization appears to be taking off on an entirely different philosophy, and with that big change in philosophy your rigorous statement "attendance determines payroll" can - and should- become much less rigid.

"rigorous" because it's doesn't fit your incorrect narrative.

And I'll continue to "repeat" it just like you repeat your same opinion that the team should tank for years in the dozens of threads/replies you start on this topic.

I say it because it's a FACT and will continue to correct you when you fail to point this out.

And what on earth makes you think a turning 85 year old man in 2026 (most get even more conservative as they age) is going to change his spots when it comes to payroll? Even Fredo (aka: BDWIII) has stated this on multiple occasions!

From A.I. when asked how attendance affects BDWJr's view on payroll:

Revenue drives payroll: .
DeWitt Jr. explicitly stated, "It's a revenue game. If you have more revenue, you have an opportunity to spend more money," implying a direct link between gate and television revenue and payroll capabilities

Attendance affects future payroll:
A decline in fan attendance negatively impacts the team's revenue, which in turn limits the potential for future payroll increases

Recent cuts and performance:
Recent reports indicate a significant reduction in payroll, which has coincided with a drop in attendance.

This suggests that the team's recent performance has contributed to lower attendance, which then feeds into a cycle where payroll is reduced

Revisit this topic in 2028, 2029. Let's see what the organization actually does if/when they are ready to exit this rebuild.

Deal

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

[mattmitchl44]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

[ecleme22]

Combine dedication to prospect development with a future $170, $180 million payroll and see where that gets you.

Riddle me this matt.....

How are you going to get BDWJr back to that $180M by losing for the next two-three-four years which will equal attendance at or under 2M KNOWING that BDWJr has ALWAYS stated that ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL?

2M or less = under $130M payroll.

You really see him adding $50+M the season after drawing 2M?

Not me when the man has told us for decades ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL.

This is why you need to field a competitive team, within reason and while not losing site of the LT goal, while re-building.

I've said over and over again - ownership needs to be prepared to "advance spend" by one offseason when the team is ready to come out of this rebuilding phase.

Whatever money has been "saved" during the rebuild should be put towards bringing in the necessary players once the foundation of young players is in place, but maybe one offseason before attendance jumps back up to 2.5M, 3M, etc.

You can "say" it all you want matt, you're not BDWJr.

And we all know what Dewitt has said since he bought the team, also echoed by Fredo (aka: BDWIII):

ATTENDANCE DETERMINES PAYROLL

Tank for three-four seasons (you even said if this crop of prospects fails, then tank until 2031/2032 ) like you've been calling for months for them to do and attendance will continue to plummet.

That cascading attendance will keep payroll (likely) well under $130M and Dewitt WILL NOT (unless he's had a Christmas Carol like visit) raise the payroll to $180M UNTIL he gets 3+M attending.

C. Bloom knows this, why he's said even though he won't take his eye off the LT goal he also won't concede any season, including 2026!

I know what you have said because you say it every time.

Whatever has been said in the past belongs in the context of the past when the Cardinals payroll never systematically dropped by 40% or 50% for a few years. Now the organization appears to be taking off on an entirely different philosophy, and with that big change in philosophy your rigorous statement "attendance determines payroll" can - and should- become much less rigid.

"rigorous" because it's doesn't fit your incorrect narrative.

And I'll continue to "repeat" it just like you repeat your same opinion that the team should tank for years in the dozens of threads/replies you start on this topic.

I say it because it's a FACT and will continue to correct you when you fail to point this out.

And what on earth makes you think a turning 85 year old man in 2026 (most get even more conservative as they age) is going to change his spots when it comes to payroll? Even Fredo (aka: BDWIII) has stated this on multiple occasions!

From A.I. when asked how attendance affects BDWJr's view on payroll:

Revenue drives payroll: .
DeWitt Jr. explicitly stated, "It's a revenue game. If you have more revenue, you have an opportunity to spend more money," implying a direct link between gate and television revenue and payroll capabilities

Attendance affects future payroll:
A decline in fan attendance negatively impacts the team's revenue, which in turn limits the potential for future payroll increases

Recent cuts and performance:
Recent reports indicate a significant reduction in payroll, which has coincided with a drop in attendance.

This suggests that the team's recent performance has contributed to lower attendance, which then feeds into a cycle where payroll is reduced

Revisit this topic in 2028, 2029. Let's see what the organization actually does if/when they are ready to exit this rebuild.

It won’t take that long.

And the team will never ‘exit’ a rebuild. They will hopefully continue to always have an eye on the farm.

The 2020 Rays made it to the World Series. Then traded Snell in the offseason before he got too expensive, electing to trade for prospects.

And they won’t wait until 2028 or 2029 to spend money on FA.

2026 will be a seismic year. Next offseason, they’ll start building the roster w purpose.

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

[zuck698]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

[JuanAgosto]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

[JuanAgosto]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

[CCard]

We both want the Cards to succeed, we just have differing visions of how to do that. You want to bide time and build up a basket full of eggs before spending "some" money to finish off some great team. I want to use what we have, of course draft wisely as we can, supplement the team right now with the best possible acquirable talent and try to win along the way. One never knows when lightning might strike.

To within this idea:

I have said over and over and over again - yes, they can and likely will spend a little now to get some lower level veteran players on 1 or 2 year contracts. But what I DON'T want to see them do right now is commit to more Nolan Arenados, Paul Goldschmidts, etc. 5, 6, 7 year contracts when whoever they sign now could be in significant decline in another 3 years and they would be wishing they were not handcuffed to them because they are preventing them from adding the talent they really need to get to being that 92+ win team.

I agree with what you stated.

As long as the "best possible talent" they are signing this offseason does not require them to make 5, 6, 7, etc. year commitments, in particular to players over age 30 right now, then they can/will sign a few FAs to fill out the roster and try to win a few more games.

There are a lot go players that do great things on the backside of 30. Give me a great pitcher who's in his thirties as opposed to some young phenom that can't throw strikes or win games. Players, just like people, don't all age the same. I dare say that Arenado right now is the best defensive option at 3rd base for the Cards. He's not chopped liver on offense either. I'd rather see him at the plate than Gorman right now.

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

Oh it is juan

Then factor in the spill over into BPV and all that revenue to the Dewitt's as well.

[mattmitchl44]

There are a lot go players that do great things on the backside of 30. Give me a great pitcher who's in his thirties as opposed to some young phenom that can't throw strikes or win games. Players, just like people, don't all age the same. I dare say that Arenado right now is the best defensive option at 3rd base for the Cards. He's not chopped liver on offense either. I'd rather see him at the plate than Gorman right now.

Obviously players don't all age the same. But you can't know in advance who is going age and avoid injury better than someone else. You can only play the probabilities.

And if you sign a guy from age 32 to age 37 (a six year deal), the probabilities are:

- If they are going to have 1-2 great years left, they're more likely to be at age 32/33
- If they are going to have 1-2 average to good years, they're more likely to be at age 34/35
- If they are going have just 1-2 bad years, they're more likely to be at age 36/37

And if Arenado weren't objectively bad at this point (just 0.9 fWAR last year) we wouldn't be talking about how much of his salary the Cardinals are going to have to eat just to move him.

[JuanAgosto]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

Oh it is juan

Then factor in the spill over into BPV and all that revenue to the Dewitt's as well.

It makes no sense for DeWitt to slash payroll. Sign at least one good free agent pitcher and a capable bat. Give the team a chance.

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

Oh it is juan

Then factor in the spill over into BPV and all that revenue to the Dewitt's as well.

It makes no sense for DeWitt to slash payroll. Sign at least one good free agent pitcher and a capable bat. Give the team a chance.

None

He's playing poor mouth like he's the Pirates, Rockies, A's, Royals, ect.........when he's banked multi-millions in retained earnings from over two decades of 3+M attendance while seeing his initial $75M after sale of the garages/land grow to over $2.5 billion.

I said this last off season when he started to slash payroll, the "re-build" was simply a smokescreen for him to slash payroll to the barebones before the CBA negotiations.

I agree 100% w/re-building & re-stocking the minor league system but Dewitt has the funds to walk (do that) & chew gum (still field a competitive team) at the same time.

The franchise fell into disarrays simply because the WRONG man was put in charge and kept there for too long, Mo.

C. Bloom shouldn't have to pay (w/a tiny payroll) for Mo's mismanagement.

[JuanAgosto]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

Oh it is juan

Then factor in the spill over into BPV and all that revenue to the Dewitt's as well.

It makes no sense for DeWitt to slash payroll. Sign at least one good free agent pitcher and a capable bat. Give the team a chance.

None

He's playing poor mouth like he's the Pirates, Rockies, A's, Royals, ect.........when he's banked multi-millions in retained earnings from over two decades of 3+M attendance while seeing his initial $75M after sale of the garages/land grow to over $2.5 billion.

I said this last off season when he started to slash payroll, the "re-build" was simply a smokescreen for him to slash payroll to the barebones before the CBA negotiations.

I agree 100% w/re-building & re-stocking the minor league system but Dewitt has the funds to walk (do that) & chew gum (still field a competitive team) at the same time.

The franchise fell into disarrays simply because the WRONG man was put in charge and kept there for too long, Mo.

C. Bloom shouldn't have to pay (w/a tiny payroll) for Mo's mismanagement.

No doubt, Rock. DeWitt should give Bloom a competitive level payroll. Allow him to sign a couple good MLB free agents to fill needs. Then Bloom has more flexibility with potential trades and what he asks for in return.

[rockondlouie]

(And I wish you'd be right matt and BDWJr would miraculously up payroll above $180M after 2027. But I take a man like Dewitt at his word and I just don't see him changing his business plan when it comes to how he sets payroll when it's been so successful)

But you can see that their whole "business plan" for the ML team in undergoing a seismic shift right now. Their "business plan" IS changing. Going from consistently increasing payrolls for 20 years to a sharp drop of 40% or 50% IS a change. You can't say "he's never going to change his business plan" when they are, obviously, already changing their business plan!

Why can you not allot for the possibility that there will be a similar shift (toward "advanced spending before attendance rebounds") at the end of this process?

The shift is actually nothing more than a return to the "old" plan, one Dewitt ran beautifully with the help of J. Luhnow.

The only "change" is a Back to the Future emphasis on drafting & developing a steady stream of quality minor leaguers.

I think Bloom is the right man to make that happen.

And this sharp drop in payroll was planned all along by Dewitt, one of the most powerful owners in MLB, who wanted to cut his payroll to the bare bones before negotiations start on the new CBA.

I can absolutely say he's (likely) never going to change his business plan when it comes to setting payrollb, which you know is what I was referring to and not the philosophical change in how to construct the roster via player development.

Why can't you grasp this MULTI DECADE fact when it comes to how Dewitt sets his payroll?

Attendance Size sets the following seasons Payroll

And with 2 million or probably even less after many years of this yutes rebuild, people think the "Dry Powder" will just magically start flowing again when the rebuild is ready to add? I am not convinced. Welcome to the new Pittsburgh Lou! Only hope is CBA changes for the "less fortunate" teams. You know, like the poor DeWitts.

Neither am I zuck'

I just can't see them drawing 2M in 2026 and then BDWJr miraculously upping the payroll to $180M once the next CBA is in place.

DeWitt needs to decide if he wants to compete or simply offer an entertainment option. He will profit either way. Attendance increases if he spends more. But does that generate as much $ as a low payroll and less attendance? What's it going to be Billy Boy? You got the balls to compete or is it all about making some money?

Absolutely

The old adage:
"It takes money to make money" certainly applies to the Cardinals if Dewitt wants to get back to that 3+M.

You would think 3 million fans and post season play would be much more profitable. Maybe not.

Oh it is juan

Then factor in the spill over into BPV and all that revenue to the Dewitt's as well.

It makes no sense for DeWitt to slash payroll. Sign at least one good free agent pitcher and a capable bat. Give the team a chance.

None

He's playing poor mouth like he's the Pirates, Rockies, A's, Royals, ect.........when he's banked multi-millions in retained earnings from over two decades of 3+M attendance while seeing his initial $75M after sale of the garages/land grow to over $2.5 billion.

I said this last off season when he started to slash payroll, the "re-build" was simply a smokescreen for him to slash payroll to the barebones before the CBA negotiations.

I agree 100% w/re-building & re-stocking the minor league system but Dewitt has the funds to walk (do that) & chew gum (still field a competitive team) at the same time.

The franchise fell into disarrays simply because the WRONG man was put in charge and kept there for too long, Mo.

C. Bloom shouldn't have to pay (w/a tiny payroll) for Mo's mismanagement.

No doubt, Rock. DeWitt should give Bloom a competitive level payroll. Allow him to sign a couple good MLB free agents to fill needs. Then Bloom has more flexibility with potential trades and what he asks for in return.

I would've loved to have seen Dewitt, at that presser, say he was going to give Bloom the same financial support he gave Mo ($180M payroll) and see what he can do w/it.

The re-tooling of the minor league system (and Bloom is still adding brain power to it!) is complete, nothing they now do at the big league level can hamper it!

Our only hope is Dewitt, after the new CBA is in place, does up the payroll back to $180+M.

But I have my doubts given his stated business plan years ago that strong ATTENDANCE determines how high the PAYROLL will be.