Non-Tender Candidate: Andre Pallante--would ya'?

[renostl]

Fedde is gone and, presumably, so too is Mikolas. If Bloom can thread the needle and also trade Gray + cash for an appropriate prospect or two, then the fact that Pallante has a durable R arm becomes even more important. At some point innings have to be covered.

Plus, is Liberatore going to build on 25 or fall back?

Yes, AP has his share of issues as the ERA shows, but we just paid another palooka nearly $57 million the past 3 seasons for 5th/6th starter level work. So, in that context, I'd not fret about $3.4 million in what's dubbed as a true rebuilding year.

This is just Rocko (bleep)...again...about one of his least favorite Cardinals.

It is a weak argument. At most a team would save $2.4 million. Players that make low amounts don't block anyone and
that's if there was some sort of line waiting to get in. That small amount of money almost can't be reallocated. A #5 starter isn't about
Cy Young era's. More about making the game winnable. He does need to improves. So what, all the roster does.
IF he just gets back to 2024 form he's as good as any #5.

In 2024

That season his first start came on May 29th. He made 20 starts.
In 15 of those 20 he gave up 3 runs or less. 75% of his starts he kept the team in the game.
5 games with 0 runs, 8 games with 1 or 2 runs. 13 of 20 very winnable.
He seemed to respond to suggestions from Kyle Gibson, jmo,
that a successful ex-pitcher in this dugout of youth would be a great investment.

[BrockFloodMaris]

we need the innings...if you have a guy who can pitch the innings and cost the same as Pallante, then I'm listening.

If we're NTC the guy b/c "He suck bad"....remember it's 2026 and we're playing the role of the Pirates until 2028 begins. Pirates have a Skenes window that closes in 2 or 3 years, they're trying to compete now.

Agreed. If you can find a guy in FA who can give you 162.2 innings with a 4.68/4.16/4.36 FIP/xFIP/xERA for $3.4mm, great. Sign that guy AND keep Pallante because the Cardinals have a lot of innings to fill. They may not be particularly good innings, but that doesn’t seem to be the primary concern for 2026.

Is Gray getting traded? That makes a big difference. Bloom has 800-950 starter innings to cover for 2026. Who's gonna pitch 'em?

Lib--160
McGravy--150
Gray--180
Leahy--100
Mathews--50
Mautz--60
AP--160

With Gray and Pallante and a lot of hope, you can get to 860.
This will be Bloom's biggest challenge for 2026.

[Hoosier59]

we need the innings...if you have a guy who can pitch the innings and cost the same as Pallante, then I'm listening.

If we're NTC the guy b/c "He suck bad"....remember it's 2026 and we're playing the role of the Pirates until 2028 begins. Pirates have a Skenes window that closes in 2 or 3 years, they're trying to compete now.

Agreed. If you can find a guy in FA who can give you 162.2 innings with a 4.68/4.16/4.36 FIP/xFIP/xERA for $3.4mm, great. Sign that guy AND keep Pallante because the Cardinals have a lot of innings to fill. They may not be particularly good innings, but that doesn’t seem to be the primary concern for 2026.

Is Gray getting traded? That makes a big difference. Bloom has 800-950 starter innings to cover for 2026. Who's gonna pitch 'em?

Lib--160
McGravy--150
Gray--180
Leahy--100
Mathews--50
Mautz--60
AP--160

With Gray and Pallante and a lot of hope, you can get to 860.
This will be Bloom's biggest challenge for 2026.

That and getting the best return on Donovan, if he trades him. And being able to unload Arenado!
He does have his work cut out for him!

[Ace]

Fine for a mop up guy, but keep him far away from the rotation. Could care less is he is non tendered, every organization has guys like this.

[renostl]

we need the innings...if you have a guy who can pitch the innings and cost the same as Pallante, then I'm listening.

If we're NTC the guy b/c "He suck bad"....remember it's 2026 and we're playing the role of the Pirates until 2028 begins. Pirates have a Skenes window that closes in 2 or 3 years, they're trying to compete now.

Agreed. If you can find a guy in FA who can give you 162.2 innings with a 4.68/4.16/4.36 FIP/xFIP/xERA for $3.4mm, great. Sign that guy AND keep Pallante because the Cardinals have a lot of innings to fill. They may not be particularly good innings, but that doesn’t seem to be the primary concern for 2026.

Is Gray getting traded? That makes a big difference. Bloom has 800-950 starter innings to cover for 2026. Who's gonna pitch 'em?

Lib--160
McGravy--150
Gray--180
Leahy--100
Mathews--50
Mautz--60
AP--160

With Gray and Pallante and a lot of hope, you can get to 860.
This will be Bloom's biggest challenge for 2026.

Indeed.
Be more worried of bringing in a Mikolas on a $7 million deal.
Doyle may get another 50

[Ace]

Fedde is gone and, presumably, so too is Mikolas. If Bloom can thread the needle and also trade Gray + cash for an appropriate prospect or two, then the fact that Pallante has a durable R arm becomes even more important. At some point innings have to be covered.

Plus, is Liberatore going to build on 25 or fall back?

Yes, AP has his share of issues as the ERA shows, but we just paid another palooka nearly $57 million the past 3 seasons for 5th/6th starter level work. So, in that context, I'd not fret about $3.4 million in what's dubbed as a true rebuilding year.

This is just Rocko (bleep)...again...about one of his least favorite Cardinals.

Liberatore was a completely diff pitcher in the first half of the season compared to the second half. Not only from a performance standpoint, but even more so from a durability standpoint.

12 of his 16 first starts he threw 5+ innings.
Only 1 of his last 12 starts he threw 5+ innings.

[Strummer Jones]

Fedde is gone and, presumably, so too is Mikolas. If Bloom can thread the needle and also trade Gray + cash for an appropriate prospect or two, then the fact that Pallante has a durable R arm becomes even more important. At some point innings have to be covered.

Plus, is Liberatore going to build on 25 or fall back?

Yes, AP has his share of issues as the ERA shows, but we just paid another palooka nearly $57 million the past 3 seasons for 5th/6th starter level work. So, in that context, I'd not fret about $3.4 million in what's dubbed as a true rebuilding year.

This is just Rocko (bleep)...again...about one of his least favorite Cardinals.

Liberatore was a completely diff pitcher in the first half of the season compared to the second half. Not only from a performance standpoint, but even more so from a durability standpoint.

12 of his 16 first starts he threw 5+ innings.
Only 1 of his last 12 starts he threw 5+ innings.

Probably hit a wall. I'm surprised it took as long as it did. They just kinda tossed him in there.

[rockondlouie]

You guys are probably right, they'll likely keep Pallante.

But man how far this franchise has fallen when they keep a bottom of MLB pitcher around just to "cover innings".

[zuck698]

You guys are probably right, they'll likely keep Pallante.

But man how far this franchise has fallen when they keep a bottom of MLB pitcher around just to "cover innings".

Right Rock! How the mighty have fallen! And the worst part is, besides being sad and pathetic, is that it was prevetable!

[ilcubuffs]

IF this team can pretend Gorman is a MLB player then they can keep Pallante.

Over the previous 2-3 years they have changed his pitching angle, reduced usage of 4 seam and sinker while increasing use of slider, all the while moving from BP to SP. 2025 His location of especially 4 seam was predominantly right down central with expected results in HR's and hits.

While the myriad of stats are not Cy Young worthy they may be something to work with to see if he is MLB worthy. Historically he is horrible the 1st inning he pitches. I believe for CMart it was the 3rd inning, Mikolas any and all innings, etc yet they were kept on team.

Who directed these changes - Blake?? IF so it is a wonder he knows where home plate is located.

MLB provided a analysis on Devon Williams and why his ERA ballooned in NY. It showed that when Williams was removed from a game and runners on base, the relievers who followed allowed those runners to score and were accounted for under Williams stats. Thus his ERA kept getting larger. Could that be the case of Pallante? Not denying his contribution to ugly stats but what is the whole story.

Bottom line let a Bloom hire make the decision on Pallante future.

[renostl]

IF this team can pretend Gorman is a MLB player then they can keep Pallante.

Over the previous 2-3 years they have changed his pitching angle, reduced usage of 4 seam and sinker while increasing use of slider, all the while moving from BP to SP. 2025 His location of especially 4 seam was predominantly right down central with expected results in HR's and hits.

While the myriad of stats are not Cy Young worthy they may be something to work with to see if he is MLB worthy. Historically he is horrible the 1st inning he pitches. I believe for CMart it was the 3rd inning, Mikolas any and all innings, etc yet they were kept on team.

Who directed these changes - Blake?? IF so it is a wonder he knows where home plate is located.

MLB provided a analysis on Devon Williams and why his ERA ballooned in NY. It showed that when Williams was removed from a game and runners on base, the relievers who followed allowed those runners to score and were accounted for under Williams stats. Thus his ERA kept getting larger. Could that be the case of Pallante? Not denying his contribution to ugly stats but what is the whole story.

Bottom line let a Bloom hire make the decision on Pallante future.

agree.

I attempted to show the flaws that exist with SP's and went to game logs.
Why are era's up? R/G are down from 20 years ago, and the 4.45 is in line
with the 4.43 average over the last 15 years.

Part not all is due to less innings and quick hooks and as you stated blown holds.
These 4,5,6 guys should be measured by how often they keep the team in the game
and the innings they supply.

In 2024 AP allowed 3 runs or less in 75% of his starts. 2 or less 65%.
In 2025 that slipped to 63% 3 runs or less.

It seems like it would be natural that if you are going with youth that you'd have
at least 1 successful ex pitcher on the coaching staff. Kiekhefer, Rangel, and Blake
are the boys, best I know.

Kyle Gibson helped AP according to AP in interview.

[imetsatchelpaige]

All this stated--and its a lot--he was not on the non-tender list today.

[renostl]

All this stated--and its a lot--he was not on the non-tender list today.

I guess Bloom doesn't see his
JAG features quite yet.

[CCard]

I would definitely non-tender King. Outside of being left-handed, I don't know that he brings anything. We can find a replacement that will likely be just as good for cheaper.

Pallante...I lean towards keeping. Let me preface this by saying he s-u-c-k-e-d last year. But...here's where I am with it. We still need starting depth. He's shown capable of turning in good starts. I don't think he can be consistent with it. But as a long man? Or if you need a pitcher to absorb innings when you're either down by a lot or up by a lot? I think he has value there. And potentially (though I don't think it's likely) could rebuild value in that role.

But unless we're trying to completely race for the bottom this year or we get absolutely shelled with injuries, there's no way I want him taking the ball every fifth game for 20+ starts.

If they keep Pallante, in no way should he be allowed to start unless it's an emergency. He gets ground balls. He'd be handy to come out of the pen and get a double play. If he's going good you might get a few innings out of him here and there in a mop up role or if there's a big lead. He's just too subject to batted ball luck. That being said, I bet there's a lot of teams out there that would be happy to have him. He does one thing great.

[cardstatman]

There's not a lot of difference between Pallante, Liberatore, and McGreevy, IMHO.

LIberatore had his best year ever. Pallante had his worst. McGreevy the rookie obviously had BOTH!

IP
1 McGreevy 171 (includes Memphis 75)
2 Pallante 163
3 Liberatore 152

v/FA
1 Pallante 94.5
2 Liberatore 93.9
3 McGreevy 92.9

K/9
1 Liberatore 7.24
2 Pallante 6.14
3 McGreevy 5.46 (7.17 including Memphis)

BB/9
1 McGreevy 1.88
2 Liberatore 2.37
3 Pallante 3.43

HR/9
1 Liberatore 1.13
1 McGreevy 1.13
3 Pallante 1.16

FIP
1 Liberatore 4.03
2 McGreevy 4.27
3 Pallante 4.68

xFIP
1 Pallante 4.16
2 Liberatore 4.31
3 McGreevy 4.32

xERA
1 Pallante 4.36
2 McGreevy 4.62
3 LIberatore 4.85

ERA
1 Liberatore 4.21
2 McGreevy 4.41
3 Pallante 5.31

WHIP
McGreevy 1.25
LIberatore 1.31
Pallante 1.44

What changed most about Pallante is his LOB% was a career low 62.2%. He pitched very poorly with men on base.

Pallante clearly lost it in August but they were relentless on sending him right back out there. His number suffered from that.