Loser Mentality

[Bomber1]

Allow me to vent a little.....

When did the St. Louis Cardinals get such a loser mentality? When did it become acceptable for MLB baseball in St. Louis to look like AAA ball? When did it become okay for the Cardinals to not have any star power? When did it become okay for ownership to strip payroll down to nothing? When did the fans start accepting the idea that tanking (not even trying to compete) is okay? When did fans become in favor of collecting prospects instead of MLB players? When dod it become okay to have Oliver Marmol as a MLB manager?

Ok, I feel a little better.....maybe.

Tired of the Loser Mentality with the Cards and tired of reading the Loser Mentality nonsense I read on here.

Okay, so this is a loser mentality.

Is this a winning mentality?

1. Signing Wiggy to a 2 year deal when he could've been had for a minor league contract.
2. Treating Matt Adams as if he were Schwarber.
3. Treating Grichuk like he's the next Edmonds.
4. Signing Stephen freakin' Piscotty to a 7 year deal.
5. Signing Leak to a 5 year deal.
6. Treating Tommy Pham like Adron Chambers.
7. Treating Bader as the next big thing.
8. Treating Tyler O'Neill as if he's the next Stanton.
9. Treating Gallen and Sandy as if they are expendable.
10. Treating Hudson as if he's a big arm.
11. Treating Bourjos as if he's good.
12. Treating DeJong as if he's 'our future!'
13. Treating Arozarena as if he's redundant.
14. Treating Edman as if he's a great player.
15. Treating Cecil as if he's good.
16. Treating Andrew Miller as if he's still good.
17. Signing Fowler to a 5 year deal and being laughed at by the league.
18. Signing a 35 Miko to a 2-year extension.

Is any of this a winning mentality?


Bloom and the Cards are just resetting for a bit. Trying to make some smart moves. Yes, gathering prospects before we really start to make a statement in FA.

Patience, bro. This is actually a winner's mentality that's happening now...

Good post Ecleme.

It’s going to take several years, maybe until 2028 or even 2029 if ‘27 is lost to lockout, to get this team firing on all cylinders again.

They are going to do it Bloom’s way, and I believe he’ll accomplish his mission to make the Cardinals a good team with a good pipeline of young players.

Those that can’t or won’t accept their methods are in for a disappointing 3-4 years.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Allow me to vent a little.....

When did the St. Louis Cardinals get such a loser mentality? When did it become acceptable for MLB baseball in St. Louis to look like AAA ball? When did it become okay for the Cardinals to not have any star power? When did it become okay for ownership to strip payroll down to nothing? When did the fans start accepting the idea that tanking (not even trying to compete) is okay? When did fans become in favor of collecting prospects instead of MLB players? When dod it become okay to have Oliver Marmol as a MLB manager?

Ok, I feel a little better.....maybe.

Tired of the Loser Mentality with the Cards and tired of reading the Loser Mentality nonsense I read on here.

Okay, so this is a loser mentality.

Is this a winning mentality?

1. Signing Wiggy to a 2 year deal when he could've been had for a minor league contract.
2. Treating Matt Adams as if he were Schwarber.
3. Treating Grichuk like he's the next Edmonds.
4. Signing Stephen freakin' Piscotty to a 7 year deal.
5. Signing Leak to a 5 year deal.
6. Treating Tommy Pham like Adron Chambers.
7. Treating Bader as the next big thing.
8. Treating Tyler O'Neill as if he's the next Stanton.
9. Treating Gallen and Sandy as if they are expendable.
10. Treating Hudson as if he's a big arm.
11. Treating Bourjos as if he's good.
12. Treating DeJong as if he's 'our future!'
13. Treating Arozarena as if he's redundant.
14. Treating Edman as if he's a great player.
15. Treating Cecil as if he's good.
16. Treating Andrew Miller as if he's still good.
17. Signing Fowler to a 5 year deal and being laughed at by the league.
18. Signing a 35 Miko to a 2-year extension.

Is any of this a winning mentality?


Bloom and the Cards are just resetting for a bit. Trying to make some smart moves. Yes, gathering prospects before we really start to make a statement in FA.

Patience, bro. This is actually a winner's mentality that's happening now...

One sentence stands out- before we really start to make a statement in FA- explain.

[OldRed]

Allow me to vent a little.....

When did the St. Louis Cardinals get such a loser mentality? When did it become acceptable for MLB baseball in St. Louis to look like AAA ball? When did it become okay for the Cardinals to not have any star power? When did it become okay for ownership to strip payroll down to nothing? When did the fans start accepting the idea that tanking (not even trying to compete) is okay? When did fans become in favor of collecting prospects instead of MLB players? When dod it become okay to have Oliver Marmol as a MLB manager?

Ok, I feel a little better.....maybe.

Tired of the Loser Mentality with the Cards and tired of reading the Loser Mentality nonsense I read on here.

Pretty much what I have said the last couple of years.

[desertrat23]

Nothing we didn’t see in the 70’s and 90’s, but go ahead and vent. Don’t want Bloom thinking we’ll be patient.

It wasn’t OK then, it’s not OK now. This fan base has been plenty patient.

[rockondlouie]

Only an idiot would look at this team and think oh with just a few tweaks this team could contend for a World Series. They need a 1 and 2 starter and a 3,4 and 5 hitter. They aren’t going to just snap their fingers and do all of that and spending hasn’t helped the Mets and padres. Mo destroyed the organization it has to rebuilt from the ground up. It’s not a loser mentality from fans on here it’s being realistic and rational

+1 ozzie

And I'll add BDWJr was his partner in this crime since he could've fired Mo years ago.

[Goldfan]

Only an idiot would look at this team and think oh with just a few tweaks this team could contend for a World Series. They need a 1 and 2 starter and a 3,4 and 5 hitter. They aren’t going to just snap their fingers and do all of that and spending hasn’t helped the Mets and padres. Mo destroyed the organization it has to rebuilt from the ground up. It’s not a loser mentality from fans on here it’s being realistic and rational

+1 ozzie

And I'll add BDWJr was his partner in this crime since he could've fired Mo years ago.

TGKS LF/DH
JJ 2b
Herrera C
Bellinger RF
Contreras 1B
Burly LF/DH
Gorman 3b
Winn SS
Scott CF

FA
Receive from trade P
Libby
McGreevy
Leahy
This is a rather simple fix and will make the playoffs. The top 6 will keep the lineup moving and score runs

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I've said it again and again, but a lot of fans here just refuse to understand a rebuild. It's why DeWitt was committed to status quo for so many years.

And I can understand why he didn't take more risks in the high priced free agent market. Look at how fans react when Arenado or Goldschmidt aged. They turn on them. And like it or not, the team just can't afford to throw money on top of money to make their problems go away. So, they end up signing "safe" free agents who aren't that good. But hey, they're competitive and that's what the fans want.

Nevermind that basically every team that is successful today have done rebuilds, aside from maybe LA and the Yankees. You can only throw money at the problem for so long. Eventually you have to change the way you do things.

It's not a loser mentality. It is accepting reality. I've heard for years how bad this team is. How cheap DeWitt is. How bad Mo is. How terrible the manager is. How their prospects aren't any good. And somehow you think this team can just fix that overnight? Come on.

[bccardsfan]

It's not a "Loser Mentality". It's dealing with reality.

The reality is that this team simply does not have enough talent under years of team control where, even if you added another $50 or $55 million in FAs (like Bo Bichette and Dylan Cease), they are going to be really competitive with the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Padres, etc. to get to an NLCS or WS.

There is no "quick fix" for this team. They need to develop a 4+ WAR, young, cost controlled position player - hopefully Wetherholt will be that in 2-3 years. They need to develop a young, cost controlled, front of rotation SP - hopefully Doyle will be that in 2-3 years. And, right now, the important job it trading players like Gray, Donovan, Contreras, etc. who may bring you back additional prospects who could be those guys if Wetherholt or Doyle aren't. Right now the priority is giving themselves more chance to "hit" on the kinds of prospects they need to hit on.

Once you get a couple of those guys along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc. THEN you have a critical mass of young, cost controlled talent that you can go out and supplement with expensive FAs and expect to compete at the highest levels in the NL.

Good points!
Looking forward to what appears to be a rejuvenated farm system over the next 2/3 years.

Look, there is a smart guy in charge with a plan who has hired some very good development people. Let's give it a couple of seasons to see how he does. At least there is a plan, rather than wandering aimlessly without a plan, and making bonehead moves. The only thing I find disappointing so for is the retention of Marmol, but again, perhaps Bloom has a plan there as well. We shall see. This year we get to watch JJ develop. JJ and Winn up the middle will be fun. I really like Donovan, but understand that the he may well have more value as a trade chip since we are not ready to really challenge the good clubs. Fine. Shedding Nado, Gray, and even Willy doesn't bother me. Get some good young talent and let it develop and compete in a season or two. I still think if they had a really good manager and pitching coach, they would get more out of any roster than the current sad crew.

[Goldfan]

I've said it again and again, but a lot of fans here just refuse to understand a rebuild. It's why DeWitt was committed to status quo for so many years.

And I can understand why he didn't take more risks in the high priced free agent market. Look at how fans react when Arenado or Goldschmidt aged. They turn on them. And like it or not, the team just can't afford to throw money on top of money to make their problems go away. So, they end up signing "safe" free agents who aren't that good. But hey, they're competitive and that's what the fans want.

Nevermind that basically every team that is successful today have done rebuilds, aside from maybe LA and the Yankees. You can only throw money at the problem for so long. Eventually you have to change the way you do things.

It's not a loser mentality. It is accepting reality. I've heard for years how bad this team is. How cheap DeWitt is. How bad Mo is. How terrible the manager is. How their prospects aren't any good. And somehow you think this team can just fix that overnight? Come on.

When your top 2 highest paid “MVP, Allstar” players publicly state that they aren’t leaders and choke when light get hot……that’s when the fans turn
They were not Winners and were the wrong type of player to bring here. It’s about attitude and leadership…..Not some in season stat accumulators who wilt when you need them

[Ronnie Dobbs]

When your top 2 highest paid “MVP, Allstar” players publicly state that they aren’t leaders and choke when light get hot……that’s when the fans turn
They were not Winners and were the wrong type of player to bring here. It’s about attitude and leadership…..Not some in season stat accumulators who wilt when you need them

Okay. So, now all we have to do is spend a bunch of money in free agency, but also figure out which players are not just "stat accumulators" like Arenado and Goldschmidt, who both had accumulated stats that put them on a possible HOF trajectory when the Cardinals got them.

[Cusecards]

It's not a "Loser Mentality". It's dealing with reality.

The reality is that this team simply does not have enough talent under years of team control where, even if you added another $50 or $55 million in FAs (like Bo Bichette and Dylan Cease), they are going to be really competitive with the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Padres, etc. to get to an NLCS or WS.

There is no "quick fix" for this team. They need to develop a 4+ WAR, young, cost controlled position player - hopefully Wetherholt will be that in 2-3 years. They need to develop a young, cost controlled, front of rotation SP - hopefully Doyle will be that in 2-3 years. And, right now, the important job it trading players like Gray, Donovan, Contreras, etc. who may bring you back additional prospects who could be those guys if Wetherholt or Doyle aren't. Right now the priority is giving themselves more chance to "hit" on the kinds of prospects they need to hit on.

Once you get a couple of those guys along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc. THEN you have a critical mass of young, cost controlled talent that you can go out and supplement with expensive FAs and expect to compete at the highest levels in the NL.

Good points!
Looking forward to what appears to be a rejuvenated farm system over the next 2/3 years.

Look, there is a smart guy in charge with a plan who has hired some very good development people. Let's give it a couple of seasons to see how he does. At least there is a plan, rather than wandering aimlessly without a plan, and making bonehead moves. The only thing I find disappointing so for is the retention of Marmol, but again, perhaps Bloom has a plan there as well. We shall see. This year we get to watch JJ develop. JJ and Winn up the middle will be fun. I really like Donovan, but understand that the he may well have more value as a trade chip since we are not ready to really challenge the good clubs. Fine. Shedding Nado, Gray, and even Willy doesn't bother me. Get some good young talent and let it develop and compete in a season or two. I still think if they had a really good manager and pitching coach, they would get more out of any roster than the current sad crew.

Agree
Everyone here is a fan. Obviously we all vent/root/etc in different ways.
My fingers are crossed that they are heading in the right direction with the farm system.
JJ, Doyle, Baez, etc should all be fun to watch.
As for Manager. I think we can definitely do better.
But....I can understand how Bloom would want to wait on making a change with the staff. May not want to make too many changes right off the bat??
I myself would not rush to spend big on FA’s right now.
I especially would not do it just to placate the fans(spend just for PR reasons).

[bccardsfan]

It's not a "Loser Mentality". It's dealing with reality.

The reality is that this team simply does not have enough talent under years of team control where, even if you added another $50 or $55 million in FAs (like Bo Bichette and Dylan Cease), they are going to be really competitive with the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Padres, etc. to get to an NLCS or WS.

There is no "quick fix" for this team. They need to develop a 4+ WAR, young, cost controlled position player - hopefully Wetherholt will be that in 2-3 years. They need to develop a young, cost controlled, front of rotation SP - hopefully Doyle will be that in 2-3 years. And, right now, the important job it trading players like Gray, Donovan, Contreras, etc. who may bring you back additional prospects who could be those guys if Wetherholt or Doyle aren't. Right now the priority is giving themselves more chance to "hit" on the kinds of prospects they need to hit on.

Once you get a couple of those guys along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc. THEN you have a critical mass of young, cost controlled talent that you can go out and supplement with expensive FAs and expect to compete at the highest levels in the NL.

Good points!
Looking forward to what appears to be a rejuvenated farm system over the next 2/3 years.

Look, there is a smart guy in charge with a plan who has hired some very good development people. Let's give it a couple of seasons to see how he does. At least there is a plan, rather than wandering aimlessly without a plan, and making bonehead moves. The only thing I find disappointing so for is the retention of Marmol, but again, perhaps Bloom has a plan there as well. We shall see. This year we get to watch JJ develop. JJ and Winn up the middle will be fun. I really like Donovan, but understand that the he may well have more value as a trade chip since we are not ready to really challenge the good clubs. Fine. Shedding Nado, Gray, and even Willy doesn't bother me. Get some good young talent and let it develop and compete in a season or two. I still think if they had a really good manager and pitching coach, they would get more out of any roster than the current sad crew.

Agree
Everyone here is a fan. Obviously we all vent/root/etc in different ways.
My fingers are crossed that they are heading in the right direction with the farm system.
JJ, Doyle, Baez, etc should all be fun to watch.
As for Manager. I think we can definitely do better.
But....I can understand how Bloom would want to wait on making a change with the staff. May not want to make too many changes right off the bat??
I myself would not rush to spend big on FA’s right now.
I especially would not do it just to placate the fans(spend just for PR reasons).

I certainly have no expectations of them signing big name FAs. Not going to happen. There will be the odd bounce back one year deal, probably for pitching. I have enjoyed watching Winn play SS. I will enjoy watching JJ develop (hopefully). This is a .500 team for another year, especially with the guy in the dugout who really cannot seem to get the most out of his lineup. They make stupid mistakes and the fundamental play needs to be cleaned up. They take stupid ABs quite often. But they do have some guys who are fun to watch. Unfortunately Donovan was one of them, and he is most likely gone in trade. There needs to be talent improvement of course, but there also needs to be "culture" improvement. I think Bloom will slowly make the organization competitive again, but I don't think the guy in the dugout should be there long-term. Again, we shall see. Bloom is no idiot. He sees everything we do and obviously has more inside info than any of us, and we have no idea what pressure or direction from ownership is either. Besides JJ and Doyle, there are interesting prospects in the pipeline, but not for next season. As I said, at least it feels like there is a plan now and someone driving..... a refreshing change. That was on ownership. They could have put MO out to pasture a few years ago and didn't do so.

[Ozziesfan41]

Only an idiot would look at this team and think oh with just a few tweaks this team could contend for a World Series. They need a 1 and 2 starter and a 3,4 and 5 hitter. They aren’t going to just snap their fingers and do all of that and spending hasn’t helped the Mets and padres. Mo destroyed the organization it has to rebuilt from the ground up. It’s not a loser mentality from fans on here it’s being realistic and rational

+1 ozzie

And I'll add BDWJr was his partner in this crime since he could've fired Mo years ago.

TGKS LF/DH
JJ 2b
Herrera C
Bellinger RF
Contreras 1B
Burly LF/DH
Gorman 3b
Winn SS
Scott CF

FA
Receive from trade P
Libby
McGreevy
Leahy
This is a rather simple fix and will make the playoffs. The top 6 will keep the lineup moving and score runs

It’s not a simple fix. What makes you think those free agents want to sign with a team with St. Louis? It would be dumb for St. Louis to give up draft picks to sign those aging players and trade even more prospects for a pitcher. Just terrible strategy to invest more and get bogged down in more aging players with long term contracts. That rotation is still not great. It would set the cardinals up for more sustained mediocrity

[mattmitchl44]

Only an idiot would look at this team and think oh with just a few tweaks this team could contend for a World Series. They need a 1 and 2 starter and a 3,4 and 5 hitter. They aren’t going to just snap their fingers and do all of that and spending hasn’t helped the Mets and padres. Mo destroyed the organization it has to rebuilt from the ground up. It’s not a loser mentality from fans on here it’s being realistic and rational

+1 ozzie

And I'll add BDWJr was his partner in this crime since he could've fired Mo years ago.

TGKS LF/DH
JJ 2b
Herrera C
Bellinger RF
Contreras 1B
Burly LF/DH
Gorman 3b
Winn SS
Scott CF

FA
Receive from trade P
Libby
McGreevy
Leahy
This is a rather simple fix and will make the playoffs. The top 6 will keep the lineup moving and score runs

It’s not a simple fix. What makes you think those free agents want to sign with a team with St. Louis? It would be dumb for St. Louis to give up draft picks to sign those aging players and trade even more prospects for a pitcher. Just terrible strategy to invest more and get bogged down in more aging players with long term contracts. That rotation is still not great. It would set the cardinals up for more sustained mediocrity

Yeah, Schwarber is estimated for 4 yrs./$112 million ($28 million AAV) plus the draft pick, and Bellinger for 5 yrs./$135 million ($27 million AAV). So that's $55 million AAV right there, and god knows how much for the FA SP or the SP to be traded for. AND how much they have to send to make Gray and Arenado go away.



It's just doing more of what has failed for the last decade or so.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Agree
Everyone here is a fan. Obviously we all vent/root/etc in different ways.
My fingers are crossed that they are heading in the right direction with the farm system.
JJ, Doyle, Baez, etc should all be fun to watch.
As for Manager. I think we can definitely do better.
But....I can understand how Bloom would want to wait on making a change with the staff. May not want to make too many changes right off the bat??
I myself would not rush to spend big on FA’s right now.
I especially would not do it just to placate the fans(spend just for PR reasons).

Very sensible take. I'm with you on Oli. I've mellowed on him quite a bit over the last two years, but I'm still not thrilled with the guy. Basically, I don't think he's as bad as a lot of people, but I can't say I think he's really good either. I'm willing to give Bloom the chance to work with the guy and see how it works out for him.

I'm a bit more optimistic on the rebuild length than some others. Not that I think we're going to be really good in 2027, but I think we could start seeing the beginning of a pretty good team. A lot depends on how some or all of the young players that didn't perform last year can get it together for this year. But yeah, I think that spending in free agency right now would be a mistake. We gotta at least save one year to evaluate some things before diving right in to spending big money on guys.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Yeah, Schwarber is estimated for 4 yrs./$112 million ($28 million AAV) plus the draft pick, and Bellinger for 5 yrs./$135 million ($27 million AAV). So that's $55 million AAV right there, and god knows how much for the FA SP or the SP to be traded for. AND how much they have to send to make Gray and Arenado go away.



It's just doing more of what has failed for the last decade or so.

AND if they TRADE for an ace-like starting pitcher, because does anyone really think they're going to spend $80+ million for three free agents, how much is that going to set back the gains we've made on the farm? If he's saying we're keeping Wetherholt, who all would we have to trade to get that kind of pitcher? That's a lot of possible high end talent gone.