Goold: Donovan's market starting to materialize

[mattmitchl44]

Exactly!!
It is literally crazy that people think we are going to magically develop a team loaded with star players that are super young, don't cost any money, and all figure it out at the same time. Folks, that isn't ever going to happen!

Teams need star players, young players, veteran players, complimentary players, etc. to win.

Our Cardinals have a team full of young, complimentary pieces. We have a miniscule payroll. Go get a couple stars!! That won't affect our development of the minor leagues. Keep working to improve/develop great players, but get some stars! The MLB isn't a place to develop, it is a place to try and win. The minors are for the developing!

As has been discussed ad nauseum, sure, you could go get a couple of "stars" right now, add them to the insufficient amount of young talent they have currently, and be an overall mediocre roster that wins 8X games in 2026, maybe sneaks into a WC, and loses in the 1st round of the playoffs if that is what you are into.

But, in three or four years, when maybe you do have more young talent with which to try to be really good, those "stars" you went out and got in Dec. 2025 are now - like Arenado, Goldschmidt, Mikolas, Matt Carpenter, etc. became - a shell of their former selves, untradeable, and payroll albatrosses which drag down your ability to compete at a higher level in 2028, 2029, etc.

That's the risk of committing to "stars" now when doing so still won't make you better than mediocre in the short run.

Your certainty of how adding stars would only make us a 80 something win team is perplexing. You don't know that.

And calling Mikolas a star, LOL.

You seem to be able to tell the future matt, give me the Mega Millions numbers.

Even with a couple of more "stars" (not a Judge, Ohtani, etc., "superstar" but like a 3-4 fWAR Bo Bichette and/or Dylan Cease) makes this a sub-90 win talent roster because there just isn't yet the developed, young talent to support them being better than that.

You seem to be able to tell the future matt, give me the Mega Millions numbers.

You have no idea what adding a Bichette and Cease could do for the 2026 team.

(And I'm not calling for them to do it. I just get tired of you always slamming people who want to stay relevant while you want to s u c k for years and years thinking that will magically turn them into WS contenders............it doesn't work that way and we have multiple MLB teams that prove it. Of course we need to draft/trade and develop our own talent. But we can also add YOUNG talent starting this winter too!)

I can look at the talent that ISN'T on the roster and say with high probability that Bichette and Cease won't make them good enough to be a strong contender to make it the NLCS or WS.

There are never any certainties about the future - but you always have to play the highest probabilities. And the highest probabilities are that they simply can't add enough talent - even if they were to spend up to $170, $180 million - to really compete with the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Padres, etc., let alone the AL teams.

[rockondlouie]

Exactly!!
It is literally crazy that people think we are going to magically develop a team loaded with star players that are super young, don't cost any money, and all figure it out at the same time. Folks, that isn't ever going to happen!

Teams need star players, young players, veteran players, complimentary players, etc. to win.

Our Cardinals have a team full of young, complimentary pieces. We have a miniscule payroll. Go get a couple stars!! That won't affect our development of the minor leagues. Keep working to improve/develop great players, but get some stars! The MLB isn't a place to develop, it is a place to try and win. The minors are for the developing!

As has been discussed ad nauseum, sure, you could go get a couple of "stars" right now, add them to the insufficient amount of young talent they have currently, and be an overall mediocre roster that wins 8X games in 2026, maybe sneaks into a WC, and loses in the 1st round of the playoffs if that is what you are into.

But, in three or four years, when maybe you do have more young talent with which to try to be really good, those "stars" you went out and got in Dec. 2025 are now - like Arenado, Goldschmidt, Mikolas, Matt Carpenter, etc. became - a shell of their former selves, untradeable, and payroll albatrosses which drag down your ability to compete at a higher level in 2028, 2029, etc.

That's the risk of committing to "stars" now when doing so still won't make you better than mediocre in the short run.

Your certainty of how adding stars would only make us a 80 something win team is perplexing. You don't know that.

And calling Mikolas a star, LOL.

You seem to be able to tell the future matt, give me the Mega Millions numbers.

Even with a couple of more "stars" (not a Judge, Ohtani, etc., "superstar" but like a 3-4 fWAR Bo Bichette and/or Dylan Cease) makes this a sub-90 win talent roster because there just isn't yet the developed, young talent to support them being better than that.

You seem to be able to tell the future matt, give me the Mega Millions numbers.

You have no idea what adding a Bichette and Cease could do for the 2026 team.

(And I'm not calling for them to do it. I just get tired of you always slamming people who want to stay relevant while you want to s u c k for years and years thinking that will magically turn them into WS contenders............it doesn't work that way and we have multiple MLB teams that prove it. Of course we need to draft/trade and develop our own talent. But we can also add YOUNG talent starting this winter too!)

I can look at the talent that ISN'T on the roster and say with high probability that Bichette and Cease won't make them good enough to be a strong contender to make it the NLCS or WS.

There are never any certainties about the future - but you always have to play the highest probabilities. And the highest probabilities are that they simply can't add enough talent - even if they were to spend up to $170, $180 million - to really compete with the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Padres, etc., let alone the AL teams.

Glad you can see the future matt, bet you also looked at Team USA's roster in 1980 and knew the Russians would destroy them in the Olympics too.

How do you explain away the Brewers having the best record in MLB last season, not the teams you listed above?

Look, every single poster in here is a rabid Cardinals fan (or another teams) and they know what the "game plan" is.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

Oh sure, in a perfect (re: dream) world you'd develop those 4-5 fWAR players you speak about and only then add those quality players.

But as you wait for that to happen your Attendance dwindles to 1.75-2M and BDWJr, as he has stated for decades, sets his payroll to fit that attendance (re: $100-110M).

By 2028 he's going to be 87 yrs old, who's to say if he's even involved in the day-to-day operations then?

And if Fredo (aka: BDWIII) takes over, are you really sure he'd take payroll to $200M given his stupid statements he's made in the past?

I see Fredo being = to ABIII (hated baseball)..................I don't think he loves baseball like his Grandfather and Dad.

Trade, draft and develop?

Absolutely

But forego adding quality young major league players starting this offseason?

No Thanks and No Need to.

[mattmitchl44]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

[ecleme22]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

I like how rock criticizes you for being definitive in your assertions when rock does that all the time.

The Brewers are good because they are essentially doing what Bloom is trying to do.

[rockondlouie]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

[mattmitchl44]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a 23 year old AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years. He went on to be about a 2 fWAR per year SP in Boston, which is basically a #4 SP. He only really became a "quality" SP with the Padres in 2025.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramirez because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

[rockondlouie]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

[mattmitchl44]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

[rockondlouie]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

No, he traded for TGKS w/the plan of signing him to a LT deal.

Again, he acquired Pivetta for NOTHING and he's no worse than anyone not named S. Gray on the 2025 Cardinals roster.....something Bloom could also do here hopefully.

BTW matt

From A.I.:

Less than 20% of minor leaguers will play in at least one Major League Baseball (MLB) game so this "great hoard" of prospects you're always pining for has about a 20% chance of ever seeing MLB.

And only 21.7% of those who make it to MLB ever make an all-star team.

You like odds, there's only a 1 in 5 chance any of the prospects we acquire ever see's MLB and makes an all star team.

[mattmitchl44]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

No, he traded for TGKS w/the plan of signing him to a LT deal.

Again, he acquired Pivetta for NOTHING and he's no worse than anyone not named S. Gray on the 2025 Cardinals roster.....something he could also do here hopefully.

Trading for Schwarber in 2021, who you then have to re-sign at full market rate, isn't any different than just signing Bo Bichette as a FA. It's the same concept. They're 28 yr. old, ~3 fWAR guys who you pay full market value for.

Sure, get a Pivetta if you can. But a 2 fWAR Pivetta isn't going to turn these 2025 Cardinals into an NL contender.

[rockondlouie]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

No, he traded for TGKS w/the plan of signing him to a LT deal.

Again, he acquired Pivetta for NOTHING and he's no worse than anyone not named S. Gray on the 2025 Cardinals roster.....something he could also do here hopefully.

Trading for a Schwarber, who you then have to re-sign at full market rate, isn't any different than just signing Bo Bichette as a FA. It's the same concept. They're 28 yr. old, ~3 fWAR guys who you pay full market value for.

Sure, get a Pivetta if you can. But a 2 fWAR Pivetta isn't going to turn these 2025 Cardinals into an NL contender.

The point is Bloom acquired a great power hitter and that 2 fWAR starter for nothing!

I ONLY cited these two deals to show you Bloom is different from Mo, he can find talent w/o giving up much if anything of value in return.

[mattmitchl44]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

No, he traded for TGKS w/the plan of signing him to a LT deal.

Again, he acquired Pivetta for NOTHING and he's no worse than anyone not named S. Gray on the 2025 Cardinals roster.....something he could also do here hopefully.

Trading for a Schwarber, who you then have to re-sign at full market rate, isn't any different than just signing Bo Bichette as a FA. It's the same concept. They're 28 yr. old, ~3 fWAR guys who you pay full market value for.

Sure, get a Pivetta if you can. But a 2 fWAR Pivetta isn't going to turn these 2025 Cardinals into an NL contender.

The point is Bloom acquired a great power hitter and that 2 fWAR starter for nothing!

I ONLY cited these two deals to show you Bloom is different from Mo, he can find talent w/o giving up much if anything of value in return.

Complementary pieces, sure. I hope he can do that in St. Louis.

But none of it was earth shattering. Not like the Twins picking up Johan Santana years ago as a Rule 5 draft pick or anything.

[rockondlouie]

But there's absolutely nothing wrong w/acquiring either via trade or thru FA a quality YOUNG starting pitcher or hitter this offseason.

And HOW do you plan to do that?

Bichette (to be 28) and Cease (to be 30) are the youngest position player/starting pitcher of the top FAs. They're not old, but they are well into their expected primes or exiting their expected primes. And everybody else is older.

When you sign them to 5+ year contracts (which they will almost certainly get from somebody), are you sure you know where they are going to be in Years 3, 4, and 5?

Or how are you going to trade for anyone younger without giving up equivalent talent in return? You aren't going to get it for Arenado no matter how much salary you eat. You're also very unlikely to even get if for Gray. Who is going to give up a young 3+ fWAR SP for an old 3+ fWAR pitcher in Gray?

You're aware C. Bloom once landed:

Nick Pivetta for Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree

How about the time he stole:

TGKS for Aldo Ramirez

Maybe you've forget he also acquired:

Wilver Abreu for Christian Vazquez

See matt your stuck in the MO ERA still where a totally INEPT POBO blew trade after trade and wasted payroll like a drunken sailor on leave.

But there's a new sheriff in town and he's made some pretty sharp trades, getting all star caliber talent for virtually nothing!

Lose the "Mo mentality" matt, the new guy's pretty shrewd.

When he acquired W. Abreu, he acquired him as a AA prospect. So yes, he SHOULD acquire prospects.

Pivetta wasn't a "quality young SP" when Boston acquired him. He'd averaged about 1 fWAR per season over his first 3.5 years.

And he could only acquire Schwarber for Ramierz because Schwarber was going to be a FA at the end of 2021. Not relevant at all.

Ha!

Cherry pick much?

Acquiring N. Pivetta shows Bloom's got an eye for talent!

He intended to keep TGKS but his cheap a z z owner nixed his plans.

100% relevant

It doesn't matter whether the owner did or did not "nix" a plan to keep Schwarber. He only traded for half a season of him, that's why the trade price was what it was.

Again, Pivetta was alright in Boston, a #4 SP. But not more than that. Not a significant difference maker. It would be fine to get a Pivetta, but that isn't going to change the trajectory of the organization.

No, he traded for TGKS w/the plan of signing him to a LT deal.

Again, he acquired Pivetta for NOTHING and he's no worse than anyone not named S. Gray on the 2025 Cardinals roster.....something he could also do here hopefully.

Trading for a Schwarber, who you then have to re-sign at full market rate, isn't any different than just signing Bo Bichette as a FA. It's the same concept. They're 28 yr. old, ~3 fWAR guys who you pay full market value for.

Sure, get a Pivetta if you can. But a 2 fWAR Pivetta isn't going to turn these 2025 Cardinals into an NL contender.

The point is Bloom acquired a great power hitter and that 2 fWAR starter for nothing!

I ONLY cited these two deals to show you Bloom is different from Mo, he can find talent w/o giving up much if anything of value in return.

Complementary pieces, sure. I hope he can do that in St. Louis.

But none of it was earth shattering. Not like the Twins picking up Johan Santana years ago as a Rule 5 draft pick or anything.

Ha

TGKS is now a "complementary" piece in your argument?

Sure wish the Cardinals had a "complementary" piece hitter who just slugged 56 home runs.

BTW

Pivetta has a 2.89 career ERA/0.91 WHiP in the playoffs, the place we're striving to get the Cardinals too.

[rockondlouie]

By Anthony Franco | November 14, 2025 at 9:08pm CDT

The Astros are back in the mix for Brendan Donovan, reports Chandler Rome of The Athletic. That’s not surprising, as Houston’s interest in the St. Louis utility player has dated back to at least the trade deadline.

[Melville]

By Anthony Franco | November 14, 2025 at 9:08pm CDT

The Astros are back in the mix for Brendan Donovan, reports Chandler Rome of The Athletic. That’s not surprising, as Houston’s interest in the St. Louis utility player has dated back to at least the trade deadline.

STL would be wise to take a slow approach.
The Dodgers were also known to have interest in Donovan - and just might be willing to trade Andy Pages if the right package came together.
Might even be able to do something with Mootbaar as one portion of the bait.

[rockondlouie]

By Anthony Franco | November 14, 2025 at 9:08pm CDT

The Astros are back in the mix for Brendan Donovan, reports Chandler Rome of The Athletic. That’s not surprising, as Houston’s interest in the St. Louis utility player has dated back to at least the trade deadline.

STL would be wise to take a slow approach.
The Dodgers were also known to have interest in Donovan - and just might be willing to trade Andy Pages if the right package came together.
Might even be able to do something with Mootbaar as one portion of the bait.

Agreed

The pool of potential suitors for Donovan is going to be DEEP, let it develop and the bidding war to begin.

BTW, Pages was my trade target last season too!