Goold: Donovan's market starting to materialize

[ronnie76]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

[rockondlouie]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm a huge critic of the DeWitt's lack of spending -- on any top-tier free agents, on player development and mostly on international free agents. The ownership has more than enough money to spend and still be profitable in the big picture (increased team value and true operating revenue).

But...

This team has no superstars in the lineup or in the minors (maybe JJ and Doyle but that's premature).
This team will take 2-3 years before it is ready to prove that adding major FA talent will get them to a ring. They need to wait until they have shown that they can vastly improve player development and IFAs.

Why sign highly priced FAs who are always a gamble until you have a strong supporting cast? To win the Wild Card and get bounced?

Right - if you acquire your next "Nolan Arenado" now just to win 8X games for a couple of years, when Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. are really ready to be good in 2028, 2029, etc., your "Nolan Arenado" is now your "shell of Nolan Arenado" in their mid-30s who you are paying too much for because you didn't take advantage of their good seasons in 2026-2027 while they were still in their early-30s. And because you have committed too much in 2028, 2029 to your "shell of Nolan Arenado" you can't actually go out at that point an add players who are actually good.

[ronnie76]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

Yeah, certainly could be posturing.

[StlMike1969]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

As nice as it would be to have 3 to 4 players that come through the system and hit the team wheels a turning at age 24 or so it is just almost impossible. Burleson is not an extreme player in that he is one play away from tearing something and being out weeks at a time. He is a consistent hitter that gives you average glove play. I would argue a great guy to have in the 5 to 7 hole hitting for you. There is nothing that says he cannot keep it going for another 5 years other than fans projections of he just got lucky a couple years in a row. Sell high now. There has to be good support roles on the team to compliment the great ones. Look at this last Dodgers win against Toronto. It was not Ohtani, Betts or even Freeman that made the decisive plays to win it for them. It was a lot of support guys. That is what Burly is and a pretty good one at it. Learn to appreciate what he really brings to the team. If we had a legit 1 thru 4 hitters then Donovan-Winn-Burleson as your 5 thru 7 guys would make for one dangerous team. Herrera and Wetherholt could be good #2 and #4 hitters find the 1 and the 3 and the team as is would be a good base. This team could be dangerous after the 2027 lockout if they develop the pitching. That is still a good window to have Burleson in.

[renostl]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

Yeah, certainly could be posturing.

There is also 2027 to approach it.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him regressing in 2026.
His OPS continues to progress, easy to watch 2026.
What IF he is a 25 HR guy. His 801 OPS is top 12 among qualified outfielders
top 10 at 1B. Nobody was above Alonso's .871. AB shows up to work.

[ronnie76]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

As nice as it would be to have 3 to 4 players that come through the system and hit the team wheels a turning at age 24 or so it is just almost impossible. Burleson is not an extreme player in that he is one play away from tearing something and being out weeks at a time. He is a consistent hitter that gives you average glove play. I would argue a great guy to have in the 5 to 7 hole hitting for you. There is nothing that says he cannot keep it going for another 5 years other than fans projections of he just got lucky a couple years in a row. Sell high now. There has to be good support roles on the team to compliment the great ones. Look at this last Dodgers win against Toronto. It was not Ohtani, Betts or even Freeman that made the decisive plays to win it for them. It was a lot of support guys. That is what Burly is and a pretty good one at it. Learn to appreciate what he really brings to the team. If we had a legit 1 thru 4 hitters then Donovan-Winn-Burleson as your 5 thru 7 guys would make for one dangerous team. Herrera and Wetherholt could be good #2 and #4 hitters find the 1 and the 3 and the team as is would be a good base. This team could be dangerous after the 2027 lockout if they develop the pitching. That is still a good window to have Burleson in.

Makes sense, but unless something dramatic happens, I don't think they feel the team will be ready to compete again until 2028 at the earliest with '29/'30 being the more likely timeline. By then, the chances of Burleson being a good complimentary piece are very low.

[ronnie76]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

Yeah, certainly could be posturing.

There is also 2027 to approach it.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him regressing in 2026.
His OPS continues to progress, easy to watch 2026.
What IF he is a 25 HR guy. His 801 OPS is top 12 among qualified outfielders
top 10 at 1B. Nobody was above Alonso's .871. AB shows up to work.

To me, Burleson's greatest skill is plate coverage. Unfortunately, that skill is one that typically starts to decline more significantly as players approach 30. I agree, he has a decent chance of maintaining '25 production through '26, but I believe the risk of regression in '27 and beyond is just too high. Even a slight regression in production at the plate would move him into replacement level status.

[Cardinals4Life]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

As nice as it would be to have 3 to 4 players that come through the system and hit the team wheels a turning at age 24 or so it is just almost impossible. Burleson is not an extreme player in that he is one play away from tearing something and being out weeks at a time. He is a consistent hitter that gives you average glove play. I would argue a great guy to have in the 5 to 7 hole hitting for you. There is nothing that says he cannot keep it going for another 5 years other than fans projections of he just got lucky a couple years in a row. Sell high now. There has to be good support roles on the team to compliment the great ones. Look at this last Dodgers win against Toronto. It was not Ohtani, Betts or even Freeman that made the decisive plays to win it for them. It was a lot of support guys. That is what Burly is and a pretty good one at it. Learn to appreciate what he really brings to the team. If we had a legit 1 thru 4 hitters then Donovan-Winn-Burleson as your 5 thru 7 guys would make for one dangerous team. Herrera and Wetherholt could be good #2 and #4 hitters find the 1 and the 3 and the team as is would be a good base. This team could be dangerous after the 2027 lockout if they develop the pitching. That is still a good window to have Burleson in.

Makes sense, but unless something dramatic happens, I don't think they feel the team will be ready to compete again until 2028 at the earliest with '29/'30 being the more likely timeline. By then, the chances of Burleson being a good complimentary piece are very low.

2028?....2029/2030???
You guys are ridiculous thinking it should take the Cardinals that long to compete. That's absolutely INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[renostl]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

Yeah, certainly could be posturing.

There is also 2027 to approach it.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him regressing in 2026.
His OPS continues to progress, easy to watch 2026.
What IF he is a 25 HR guy. His 801 OPS is top 12 among qualified outfielders
top 10 at 1B. Nobody was above Alonso's .871. AB shows up to work.

To me, Burleson's greatest skill is plate coverage. Unfortunately, that skill is one that typically starts to decline more significantly as players approach 30. I agree, he has a decent chance of maintaining '25 production through '26, but I believe the risk of regression in '27 and beyond is just too high. Even a slight regression in production at the plate would move him into replacement level status.

You certainly can be correct.
I'll bet no money either way.

Currently every stat is showing progress of this player
bringing the pitcher back more into the zone.
Barrels, EV, HH%, O-swing % where his plate coverage was hurting him a bit.
Currently, IMO, optimistic trends vs staying static.

[zuck698]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

As nice as it would be to have 3 to 4 players that come through the system and hit the team wheels a turning at age 24 or so it is just almost impossible. Burleson is not an extreme player in that he is one play away from tearing something and being out weeks at a time. He is a consistent hitter that gives you average glove play. I would argue a great guy to have in the 5 to 7 hole hitting for you. There is nothing that says he cannot keep it going for another 5 years other than fans projections of he just got lucky a couple years in a row. Sell high now. There has to be good support roles on the team to compliment the great ones. Look at this last Dodgers win against Toronto. It was not Ohtani, Betts or even Freeman that made the decisive plays to win it for them. It was a lot of support guys. That is what Burly is and a pretty good one at it. Learn to appreciate what he really brings to the team. If we had a legit 1 thru 4 hitters then Donovan-Winn-Burleson as your 5 thru 7 guys would make for one dangerous team. Herrera and Wetherholt could be good #2 and #4 hitters find the 1 and the 3 and the team as is would be a good base. This team could be dangerous after the 2027 lockout if they develop the pitching. That is still a good window to have Burleson in.

Makes sense, but unless something dramatic happens, I don't think they feel the team will be ready to compete again until 2028 at the earliest with '29/'30 being the more likely timeline. By then, the chances of Burleson being a good complimentary piece are very low.

2028?....2029/2030???
You guys are ridiculous thinking it should take the Cardinals that long to compete. That's absolutely INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cardinalsforlife, I totally agree. Smart financial transactions along with growth and development of the youth can go hand in hand. It does not have to be just one or the other. But that would require Bill to open the purse strings, which seems he is unwilling to do. Not unable, UNWILLING! 2012 Red Sox are a perfect example. Last place finish, minor league future still developing, and the next year after a few free agent aquistions, along with the youth taking the next step, and boom! 2013 World Series winner. It is about willingness to do so, and I feel that so many are drinking the koolaid "we can't walk and chew gum" at the same time. We can make a few smart free agency signings and some savy trades. We shouldn't have to be the Pirates for the next 5 or 10-or forever, years The money is certainly there, but I have serious doubts that there will ever be the willingness to spend it to make it happen. I feel most here have accepted that we have no choice but to wait for the youngsters to appear, but it certainly doesn't have to be that way or the only way. IMHO

[Shady]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

They are probably more concerned about the next 3 or 4 years for Burleson.

[ClassicO]

I'm a huge critic of the DeWitt's lack of spending -- on any top-tier free agents, on player development and mostly on international free agents. The ownership has more than enough money to spend and still be profitable in the big picture (increased team value and true operating revenue).

But...

This team has no superstars in the lineup or in the minors (maybe JJ and Doyle but that's premature).
This team will take 2-3 years before it is ready to prove that adding major FA talent will get them to a ring. They need to wait until they have shown that they can vastly improve player development and IFAs.

Why sign highly priced FAs who are always a gamble until you have a strong supporting cast? To win the Wild Card and get bounced?

Right - if you acquire your next "Nolan Arenado" now just to win 8X games for a couple of years, when Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. are really ready to be good in 2028, 2029, etc., your "Nolan Arenado" is now your "shell of Nolan Arenado" in their mid-30s who you are paying too much for because you didn't take advantage of their good seasons in 2026-2027 while they were still in their early-30s. And because you have committed too much in 2028, 2029 to your "shell of Nolan Arenado" you can't actually go out at that point an add players who are actually good.

Thank you for a good answer to the question.
If, for hypothetical fun, they added Ohtani for the next five years, they'd be another LA Angels.

[Goldfan]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

As nice as it would be to have 3 to 4 players that come through the system and hit the team wheels a turning at age 24 or so it is just almost impossible. Burleson is not an extreme player in that he is one play away from tearing something and being out weeks at a time. He is a consistent hitter that gives you average glove play. I would argue a great guy to have in the 5 to 7 hole hitting for you. There is nothing that says he cannot keep it going for another 5 years other than fans projections of he just got lucky a couple years in a row. Sell high now. There has to be good support roles on the team to compliment the great ones. Look at this last Dodgers win against Toronto. It was not Ohtani, Betts or even Freeman that made the decisive plays to win it for them. It was a lot of support guys. That is what Burly is and a pretty good one at it. Learn to appreciate what he really brings to the team. If we had a legit 1 thru 4 hitters then Donovan-Winn-Burleson as your 5 thru 7 guys would make for one dangerous team. Herrera and Wetherholt could be good #2 and #4 hitters find the 1 and the 3 and the team as is would be a good base. This team could be dangerous after the 2027 lockout if they develop the pitching. That is still a good window to have Burleson in.

Makes sense, but unless something dramatic happens, I don't think they feel the team will be ready to compete again until 2028 at the earliest with '29/'30 being the more likely timeline. By then, the chances of Burleson being a good complimentary piece are very low.

2028?....2029/2030???
You guys are ridiculous thinking it should take the Cardinals that long to compete. That's absolutely INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fans have been brainwashed by BDW….this last season was hailed as “Year of Yutes”…..we need to let the boys play to see what we have….
Smart fans KNEW what they had and hopefully everyone with half a brain knows now
The next narrative is “building the ML clubs from the farm”…..don’t mind looking to history and figuring out this was NEVER the way the Cards constructed dominant teams, forget that any player worthy today will either cycle out because of age or salary and you’ll still need more players to replace those.
And Finally Bloom would have to hit on every draft pick and prospects from trades with them being around the same age and for all to bloom to All-stars in 4-5yrs…..what are chances of that???
But at least it gets dumb fans off his (bleep) the next few seasons…..

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Also now some reports of the Astros being interested in Donovan. Add that to the reported KC and Cleveland interest. I think some other teams had interest at the deadline as well. It is sounding like it’s going to pay off waiting until the offseason instead of the deadline last year to trade him. Sounds like he might be a pretty sought after player. Not expecting to get some amazing package of prospects, but could get something pretty (bleep) good if all this interest is real. Still, nice to hear about a guy having a lot of interest this early in the offseason.

[ronnie76]

I'm confused as to why they would want to keep Burleson. He's close to peak trade value and is unlikely to be very productive 3-4 years from now. Seems like wasted value no?

Could it just be posturing from C. Bloom to up his trade value?

While he does fit the hitting profile Bloom likes, I agree w/you ronnie his value may never be higher.

Yeah, certainly could be posturing.

There is also 2027 to approach it.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him regressing in 2026.
His OPS continues to progress, easy to watch 2026.
What IF he is a 25 HR guy. His 801 OPS is top 12 among qualified outfielders
top 10 at 1B. Nobody was above Alonso's .871. AB shows up to work.

To me, Burleson's greatest skill is plate coverage. Unfortunately, that skill is one that typically starts to decline more significantly as players approach 30. I agree, he has a decent chance of maintaining '25 production through '26, but I believe the risk of regression in '27 and beyond is just too high. Even a slight regression in production at the plate would move him into replacement level status.

You certainly can be correct.
I'll bet no money either way.

Currently every stat is showing progress of this player
bringing the pitcher back more into the zone.
Barrels, EV, HH%, O-swing % where his plate coverage was hurting him a bit.
Currently, IMO, optimistic trends vs staying static.

Yeah, he's definitely come along way in reducing his chase rate and if he can just keep that from regressing we should see very good production going forward. Hoping that's the case for sure.