The trades that matter are not the ones we are talking about

[Carp4Cy]

Be prepared for some or all of the non-trade candidates to be back in 2026. But regardless of whether we find a way to dump some or not, I’m skeptical that the return will be landscape changing. All of our top prospects did not come from our past trades and these are not surplus value contracts that will land us somebody better than JJW. Or even close. It just isn’t happening.

Further, if we’ve already decided we’re not going to win until at least 2028, None of these NTC guys will be around then anyway, so what really matters are the players who are under control for longer than the next year or two (or potential extension candidates) and whether we keep Them or not.

Nootbar, Walker, Gorman, Libby, Burly, the Catchers, Scott, even Donovan and Winn. How does Bloom sort thru them all and who does he keep and build around. Those are the highest impact decisions for the meaningful future.

[sikeston bulldog2]

You just cliff noted 50 threads into one.

[mattmitchl44]

The Cardinals do certainly seem to have a "no trade clause problem."

All of these guys - Arenado, Gray, Contreras - hold NTCs which gives them a lot of leverage in:

(1) limiting the field of teams the Cardinals may be able to negotiate a successful deal with

and

(2) potentially demanding that expensive option years be picked up in order to get them to agree to a trade.

Both of which could/will significantly impact whatever return the Cardinals can get for them. The Cardinals need to think about their policy for signing/trading for guys who will have NTCs and see if they need to make some adjustments from having so many older players with them.

[Hoosier59]

Any Arenado trade, strictly by himself will recoup nothing but some salary relief. And that’s ok, if, the saved money is used elsewhere.
Gray, with some cash included, should garner a decent player. Contreras, isn’t so expensive, that much money should be needed to bring back some useful player, or prospect. By moving these three players, the player returns won’t be overwhelming, but the money saved should allow them to fill some obvious gaps. The question then though is will the DeWitts do it? My guess is they will pocket most of it and bring in only marginal players. I’ve pretty much lost all confidence in their willingness to compete. Hope I’m wrong.

[Goldfan]

The Cardinals do certainly seem to have a "no trade clause problem."

All of these guys - Arenado, Gray, Contreras - hold NTCs which gives them a lot of leverage in:

(1) limiting the field of teams the Cardinals may be able to negotiate a successful deal with

and

(2) potentially demanding that expensive option years be picked up in order to get them to agree to a trade.

Both of which could/will significantly impact whatever return the Cardinals can get for them. The Cardinals need to think about their policy for signing/trading for guys who will have NTCs and see if they need to make some adjustments from having so many older players with them.

Why ANY would want to stay on this current Cards team speaks to the competitive drive to win …..which obviously they are lacking

[ecleme22]

The Cardinals do certainly seem to have a "no trade clause problem."

All of these guys - Arenado, Gray, Contreras - hold NTCs which gives them a lot of leverage in:

(1) limiting the field of teams the Cardinals may be able to negotiate a successful deal with

and

(2) potentially demanding that expensive option years be picked up in order to get them to agree to a trade.

Both of which could/will significantly impact whatever return the Cardinals can get for them. The Cardinals need to think about their policy for signing/trading for guys who will have NTCs and see if they need to make some adjustments from having so many older players with them.

Why ANY would want to stay on this current Cards team speaks to the competitive drive to win …..which obviously they are lacking

No, it speaks to the team's timeline.

[rockondlouie]

The Cardinals do certainly seem to have a "no trade clause problem."

All of these guys - Arenado, Gray, Contreras - hold NTCs which gives them a lot of leverage in:

(1) limiting the field of teams the Cardinals may be able to negotiate a successful deal with

and

(2) potentially demanding that expensive option years be picked up in order to get them to agree to a trade.

Both of which could/will significantly impact whatever return the Cardinals can get for them. The Cardinals need to think about their policy for signing/trading for guys who will have NTCs and see if they need to make some adjustments from having so many older players with them.

The ONLY one I see using his NTC is WillyC who's made it clear he wants to stay.

-NADO has to be open to almost any team now, maybe he goes back home to the Angels or Rockies w/BDWJr picking up a huge chunk of his contract?

-Gray wants to be on a winner, he'll be in demand from every contender in MLB.

[EastCoastDave]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

[BrockFloodMaris]

Be prepared for some or all of the non-trade candidates to be back in 2026. But regardless of whether we find a way to dump some or not, I’m skeptical that the return will be landscape changing. All of our top prospects did not come from our past trades and these are not surplus value contracts that will land us somebody better than JJW. Or even close. It just isn’t happening.

Further, if we’ve already decided we’re not going to win until at least 2028, None of these NTC guys will be around then anyway, so what really matters are the players who are under control for longer than the next year or two (or potential extension candidates) and whether we keep Them or not.

Nootbar, Walker, Gorman, Libby, Burly, the Catchers, Scott, even Donovan and Winn. How does Bloom sort thru them all and who does he keep and build around. Those are the highest impact decisions for the meaningful future.

Good question, Carp! The good news is that Bloom has this offseason, plus next offseason and the following offseason to answer it. I think we will see some interim moves for mid-level pitching to get us through until the farm bears fruit in that area.

[Carp4Cy]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

[ICCFIM2]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Seriously, you don't think Donovan has prospect value? Baseball Trade Value now has him up to $32M. Liam Doyle, our top pitching prospect is at $23M and Wetherholdt is at $55M as points of reference. If the Cards trade Donovan, the expectation should be that they get another Liam Doyle, plus. If we trade Donovan, and it seems increasingly likely we will, the Cards better walk out of that deal with at least 2 prospects, one of which is a 55 Grade and the other is at least a 50 grade in areas of need. Anything less and Bloom is off to a rough start.

I don't care about the Arenado trade as nothing will be coming back. The Gray trade is more interesting. Sonny Gray is currently listed as -$9M on Baseball Trade Value. If the price of starting pitching is sky high on the free agent market, I wonder if that valuation changes to slightly positive by January. If yes, perhaps they get a 45 Grade prospect for him, which would put that prospect around #10 for us.

They will likely make at least 2 other trades, at least 1 will be surprising. A catcher for another need. Gorman or Walker if a team over pays relative to their expected value. Bloom has to come away from this offseason with at least 1 high end pitching prospect and 1 high end OF prospect if they trade away Donovan, Gray and a Catcher.

[Carp4Cy]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Seriously, you don't think Donovan has prospect value? Baseball Trade Value now has him up to $32M. Liam Doyle, our top pitching prospect is at $23M and Wetherholdt is at $55M as points of reference. If the Cards trade Donovan, the expectation should be that they get another Liam Doyle, plus. If we trade Donovan, and it seems increasingly likely we will, the Cards better walk out of that deal with at least 2 prospects, one of which is a 55 Grade and the other is at least a 50 grade in areas of need. Anything less and Bloom is off to a rough start.

I don't care about the Arenado trade as nothing will be coming back. The Gray trade is more interesting. Sonny Gray is currently listed as -$9M on Baseball Trade Value. If the price of starting pitching is sky high on the free agent market, I wonder if that valuation changes to slightly positive by January. If yes, perhaps they get a 45 Grade prospect for him, which would put that prospect around #10 for us.

They will likely make at least 2 other trades, at least 1 will be surprising. A catcher for another need. Gorman or Walker if a team over pays relative to their expected value. Bloom has to come away from this offseason with at least 1 high end pitching prospect and 1 high end OF prospect if they trade away Donovan, Gray and a Catcher.

I’d love another Doyle type if MLB ready. And at this point that’s what we need. Not A level prospects that will lose another season to Tommy John on the way and not make it until 2029.

But no, I don’t think we’re gonna get that level of prospect for Donovan alone. He’s not a starting pitcher and he’s not a power hitter. Lots of teams would like to have him around, but they’re not going to overpay like they would for a premium position that They are desperate for. There are other ways to replace his production that cost less than a 1/2 ranked prospect.

[Cardinals4Life]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Seriously, you don't think Donovan has prospect value? Baseball Trade Value now has him up to $32M. Liam Doyle, our top pitching prospect is at $23M and Wetherholdt is at $55M as points of reference. If the Cards trade Donovan, the expectation should be that they get another Liam Doyle, plus. If we trade Donovan, and it seems increasingly likely we will, the Cards better walk out of that deal with at least 2 prospects, one of which is a 55 Grade and the other is at least a 50 grade in areas of need. Anything less and Bloom is off to a rough start.

I don't care about the Arenado trade as nothing will be coming back. The Gray trade is more interesting. Sonny Gray is currently listed as -$9M on Baseball Trade Value. If the price of starting pitching is sky high on the free agent market, I wonder if that valuation changes to slightly positive by January. If yes, perhaps they get a 45 Grade prospect for him, which would put that prospect around #10 for us.

They will likely make at least 2 other trades, at least 1 will be surprising. A catcher for another need. Gorman or Walker if a team over pays relative to their expected value. Bloom has to come away from this offseason with at least 1 high end pitching prospect and 1 high end OF prospect if they trade away Donovan, Gray and a Catcher.

So do you think a Donovan trade to the Mariners could bring back Kade Anderson? To me that seems crazy! But as a fan, that would be insane!!!

[ICCFIM2]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Seriously, you don't think Donovan has prospect value? Baseball Trade Value now has him up to $32M. Liam Doyle, our top pitching prospect is at $23M and Wetherholdt is at $55M as points of reference. If the Cards trade Donovan, the expectation should be that they get another Liam Doyle, plus. If we trade Donovan, and it seems increasingly likely we will, the Cards better walk out of that deal with at least 2 prospects, one of which is a 55 Grade and the other is at least a 50 grade in areas of need. Anything less and Bloom is off to a rough start.

I don't care about the Arenado trade as nothing will be coming back. The Gray trade is more interesting. Sonny Gray is currently listed as -$9M on Baseball Trade Value. If the price of starting pitching is sky high on the free agent market, I wonder if that valuation changes to slightly positive by January. If yes, perhaps they get a 45 Grade prospect for him, which would put that prospect around #10 for us.

They will likely make at least 2 other trades, at least 1 will be surprising. A catcher for another need. Gorman or Walker if a team over pays relative to their expected value. Bloom has to come away from this offseason with at least 1 high end pitching prospect and 1 high end OF prospect if they trade away Donovan, Gray and a Catcher.

So do you think a Donovan trade to the Mariners could bring back Kade Anderson? To me that seems crazy! But as a fan, that would be insane!!!

The baseball trade values website has been pretty accurate over the years. Obviously, the teams involved in the trades have their own views of the value of a player. Baseball Trade Value has Kade Anderson at $30.1M and Donovan and $32.1M. So, the answer is yes, that is what Donovan should bring back in return. Would either team do that deal? I don't know. Seattle has several years control over all 6 of the SP that pitched for them last year. I don't know the health of their SPs. I also don't know where they view Anderson as fitting into their rotation. He is likely at least 2 years out and it is an area of surplus for Seattle. If Seattle thinks Donovan is a piece that gets him over the top, yes, I make that deal. It may not look good 10 years from now. But, if they win a championship, I don't think they will care. Does anyone care that we traded Colby Rasmus for 3 guys that didn't stick around too long?

[renostl]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Gray will be interesting for me. 2027 might help him being a 1 year IF SG truly wants out
and isn't just leveraging for that option. All the top end FA SP will match his yearly
and not all teams want to commit 100 million.

Gray is also a player that adding money to or a redundant play to would be off the table.
We will soon see how wrong I am this time.

[renostl]

The comfort, for me at least, in entering the trading season is that we aren’t going to win next year and probably the next. Strange statement, right. The comfort is this: According to a couple of Internet sites that follow minor league baseball, the Cards have the No. 1 or No. 2 farm system. We don’t need to bring back a ton on starters or “on the cusp” players. We need to build an even better farm system, one that will inject strong starters one or two or three years into the future. We need players who other teams will desperately want and are willing to trade what we need for that player. We need to rid ourselves of no-trade contracts on aging players who have little value. We need to get some right handed power hitters and a bunch of pitchers who will be 15-20 game winners at some point in the near future.

I just made the point that we’re not getting any of those level prospects for Nado or even gray. They don’t have that surplus trade value. Maybe Donovan does if we package him with a lesser prospect.

I’d like to hear more discussion on the return for our younger players because that’s the only way we’re going to get a high-level return. Nado situation will take care of itself one way or another but the return will be very disappointing so it seems pointless to anticipate that trade so highly.

Seriously, you don't think Donovan has prospect value? Baseball Trade Value now has him up to $32M. Liam Doyle, our top pitching prospect is at $23M and Wetherholdt is at $55M as points of reference. If the Cards trade Donovan, the expectation should be that they get another Liam Doyle, plus. If we trade Donovan, and it seems increasingly likely we will, the Cards better walk out of that deal with at least 2 prospects, one of which is a 55 Grade and the other is at least a 50 grade in areas of need. Anything less and Bloom is off to a rough start.

I don't care about the Arenado trade as nothing will be coming back. The Gray trade is more interesting. Sonny Gray is currently listed as -$9M on Baseball Trade Value. If the price of starting pitching is sky high on the free agent market, I wonder if that valuation changes to slightly positive by January. If yes, perhaps they get a 45 Grade prospect for him, which would put that prospect around #10 for us.

They will likely make at least 2 other trades, at least 1 will be surprising. A catcher for another need. Gorman or Walker if a team over pays relative to their expected value. Bloom has to come away from this offseason with at least 1 high end pitching prospect and 1 high end OF prospect if they trade away Donovan, Gray and a Catcher.

So do you think a Donovan trade to the Mariners could bring back Kade Anderson? To me that seems crazy! But as a fan, that would be insane!!!

The baseball trade values website has been pretty accurate over the years. Obviously, the teams involved in the trades have their own views of the value of a player. Baseball Trade Value has Kade Anderson at $30.1M and Donovan and $32.1M. So, the answer is yes, that is what Donovan should bring back in return. Would either team do that deal? I don't know. Seattle has several years control over all 6 of the SP that pitched for them last year. I don't know the health of their SPs. I also don't know where they view Anderson as fitting into their rotation. He is likely at least 2 years out and it is an area of surplus for Seattle. If Seattle thinks Donovan is a piece that gets him over the top, yes, I make that deal. It may not look good 10 years from now. But, if they win a championship, I don't think they will care. Does anyone care that we traded Colby Rasmus for 3 guys that didn't stick around too long?

BTV's value is that it is more consistent and objective, IMO.
For some reason nobody is as objective as me.

Anderson would be nice.
Where would Sloan be on BTV objective list and your own subjective one?
He's further away so that won't appeal to many.