Army's report card from the assylum members

[Cahokanut]

The great that is Army, isn't done losing yet.

Gifted a team that was top 3 in the league. With 7 of the teams ten top point producers under 25
And the top three under 22.

Now at the end of all this greatness. We are in line for a top 3 pick. We went from 4th in wins(with the team army was gifted) in his first five years.
To the last five years(with the team army built) where we slipped to 20-21 in wins.

For those in this thread that doesn't care about the facts. Enjoy the golden ballroom.

[TAFKAP]

What stats?

By % of draft picks who play NHL games, he's at least top third.
By overall win % since he was GM, the Blues are 5th.
By players traded away versus players acquired, he'd more than break even (Bokk and Rundblad turned into Faulk and Tarasenko, he traded Jori Lehtera for Brayden Schenn, Berglund, Sobotka, and Tage Thompson for Ryan O'Reilly, etc.). The only players of value he traded away were Thompson, Tarasenko, and Mikkola - Tage got us a Cup, and Tarasenko and Mikkola weren't re-signing.
You can argue he overplayed his hand on Petro and compounded that mistake by overpaying Krug. I'd agree. But that's one mistake, complicated by the COVID flat cap years.
You can argue he got too cute with the expansion draft. I'd agree in hindsight. At the time, though, I thought it was the right move.

Even if I concede he effed up Petro and the expansion draft, he's still a Top 5 GM leaguewide over the past 15 years, and easily better than anyone else in Blues history.

Generally agree with a couple of caveats.

On Petro, in the end it was the player's decision to walk away from a proposed deal. He had that right.

On the expansion draft, Army got cornered by a combination of the rules and Schwartz. The Blues were destined to lose a valuable asset in the draft, but should have only been one. The circumstances of the Schwartz signing made it appear to be a double-whammy, that would not have seemed quite so bad or unfair if Schwartz had signed with a different team.

Since this got bumped from the dead, I thought I'd point out something. People always bring up what Army did wrong during the Seattle draft. Why don't we talk about what Army did right during the Vegas draft. Did he and DP57 have a handshake knowing Vegas picked him with one year left on his deal? GM's that everybody has on their top tier list threw players that built a SCF team to keep Vegas from drafting others. Not Army. He waited a year, got the guy we lost back as a UFA, and went and won a Cup.

[SameOldBlues]

I was coming around on Army, but he’s definitely partially at fault for this pathetic season to date, with my biggest complaint being what is usually always af the top of my criticisms with him…terrible contracts he gives out prematurely.

[Harry S Deals]

Binnington, Parayko, Kyrou, Thomas, Hofer, Neighbours, Snuggerud, Dvorsky and more to come its hard to really put a ton of blame on the GM

Are we saying Army is bad because they extended Buch? 309GP 105 165 270 +47 thats not too bad but yea Buch looks a little lost right now we'll see, Krug deal? Idk, meh. AP, we can beat the horse till its dead.

Maybe this year is a clunker, for me the only success will be a playoff spot which seems pretty remote right now that will ding Army in my view but i have to ultimately put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records and are simply not producing this season. Army doesnt skate with Thomas and Buch, Army isnt Kyrou.

Bottom line is Army is one of the best GMs in the league hes widely respected so this is pretty dumb

[BalotelliMassive]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

[Bacchk29]

I was coming around on Army, but he’s definitely partially at fault for this pathetic season to date, with my biggest complaint being what is usually always af the top of my criticisms with him…terrible contracts he gives out prematurely.

There’s no partially- it’s his roster build. Several transactions that have gone sideways, overvaluing and overpaying certain vets. There’s time to flip it, it’s early still. We’re not at the quarter pole.

[Harry S Deals]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

Are you being serious, Kyrou is a 30 goal guy, Thomas is a PPG center, Buch should be 60+ point, etc, etc

[netboy65]

The great that is Army, isn't done losing yet.

Gifted a team that was top 3 in the league. With 7 of the teams ten top point producers under 25
And the top three under 22.

Now at the end of all this greatness. We are in line for a top 3 pick. We went from 4th in wins(with the team army was gifted) in his first five years.
To the last five years(with the team army built) where we slipped to 20-21 in wins.

For those in this thread that doesn't care about the facts. Enjoy the golden ballroom.

Very Bomac-ian of you.
Tell me, just what was he gifted?
Over the last 15 years he built the Blues. Both the good teams and the bad.

[BalotelliMassive]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

Are you being serious, Kyrou is a 30 goal guy, Thomas is a PPG center, Buch should be 60+ point, etc, etc

....and they're part of a core that has troubling results - two coaches fired so far...

[bluetunehead]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

Are you being serious, Kyrou is a 30 goal guy, Thomas is a PPG center, Buch should be 60+ point, etc, etc

....and they're part of a core that has troubling results - two coaches fired so far...

If Monty didn’t become available Bannister wasn’t going anywhere. That was about who became available not how the team was doing specifically.

[BalotelliMassive]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

Are you being serious, Kyrou is a 30 goal guy, Thomas is a PPG center, Buch should be 60+ point, etc, etc

....and they're part of a core that has troubling results - two coaches fired so far...

If Monty didn’t become available Bannister wasn’t going anywhere. That was about who became available not how the team was doing specifically.

If the Blues were playing good hockey then Bannister never goes anywhere.

[somni]

Not sure anyone predicted the top players playing like duds and the goaltending acting like giant sieves. Weird start to say the least.

Army did well bringing in Bjugstad and Suter. Blues now have good depth in the middle and back half lines. But somehow the reliable scorers and point getters are struggling massively.

Where Army missed was addressing the 3rd D pairing. It was already a risk going with Tucker/Mailloux. And playing the top 4 these minutes will catch up with them. Hopefully a solution starts emerging one way or another.

[ratonmono2]

A-. His first decade in charge really cemented his legacy, put together a consistently top 5 team in the league for a decade, got us a cup. The last five years though? Lots of very questionable moves that agree or disagree with their logic, have put us in the position of a lower end of the league team with no real hope for ascending into that top tier of contender in the near future. So A- overall, but the post cup years only I'd give him a C- and he'd probably agree as he himself said he hadn't left this team better than the state he found it.

[Harry S Deals]

put this on the guys on the ice who have proven track records

What's the proven track record at this point? Over or underachieving?

Are you being serious, Kyrou is a 30 goal guy, Thomas is a PPG center, Buch should be 60+ point, etc, etc

....and they're part of a core that has troubling results - two coaches fired so far...

Correct but what would you have Army do then isnt that the crux? What hypotheticals are we going to debate? Shouldnt have extended Kyrou, Buch, Thomas, shoulda woulda coulda? We will run into reality at some point we will try to say there were other players? Is this the point?
If i am army and i can get Thomas and Kyrou for $8 why wouldnt i do that? I am basing my decisions on what ive seen and the knowing the man. As fans we look back in hindsight and say what if. We can do that literally for every NHL franchise

[Harry S Deals]

Not sure anyone predicted the top players playing like duds and the goaltending acting like giant sieves. Weird start to say the least.

Army did well bringing in Bjugstad and Suter. Blues now have good depth in the middle and back half lines. But somehow the reliable scorers and point getters are struggling massively.

Where Army missed was addressing the 3rd D pairing. It was already a risk going with Tucker/Mailloux. And playing the top 4 these minutes will catch up with them. Hopefully a solution starts emerging one way or another.

I agree the 3rd pairing is a bit mystifying. Im supposing they greatly overestimated Tucker. Hes been ok, Mailloux looked really good in preseason so i get starting Mailloux. With a better D partner Mailloux may have been in a better spot. He needed a guy like Suter or Leddy but at this point it is what it is but that move deserves criticism

[a smell of green grass]

Let's grade the parts to come up with the overall grade.

NHL Roster C
AHL Roster D
Other Roster C

Scouting D
NHL Draft D
Player Development D

Overall - D

What Army did in 2019 is immaterial to the grade today.