Runway

[BalotelliMassive]

They should go the Good Cop, Bad Cop route - Armstrong resigns while taking the blame at the press conference and then Steen steps in admitting that a lot of change is needed - respected veterans will be sent to cup contenders for a chance to win and the youth movement must happen.

[TheHighHat]

If you tear it down and trade Schenn, Faulk, and whoever else, then you absolutely have to get the biggest haul for Parayko you can get. Not that I want him gone, but if you’re tearing it down he’ll be of zero use to us by the time we contend again, so get while the getting is good.

Problem there is, Parayko has the cards. You have to hope he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild and uproot the family.

For me there are 3 players that have earned the right to do what they want on this team, when you factor in their remaining contracts etc... Parayko gets to decide if he wants to be a lifelong Blue. If you play a whole career for a team, typically you are going to be apart of a rebuild at some point. He gets that choice. Binner next year basically gets the option to continue on (unless HOFER absolutely cremates him and steals the crease over the next 1.5 years) to extend as a Blue for his last contract or be traded to a real cup contender who seemingly a goalie boost could do wonders like an Oil. The last person is Thomas. No matter what iteration of your team you are in, Thomas helps. Even if he isn't the future 1C (he is) he's still an extremely valuable person with 6 years left on his contract. He gets to stay if we are in last place or 1st place.

After that, business is business. you have to look at their contracts and see if they are worth more to you than someone else. I circle back around tho, I think this is going to come down to us trading 1 high profile person out of the org, and 1 middling person and it's going to be for next to no return. That will be the option they go with if they feel like this isn't working out. Our cap is going to be really really good the next few years. They have room to pivot. But, they aren't going to tear it down nor should they. Too many young guys now and coming up to just rip it apart.

Why is anybody safe on this roster? You’re extending players because they won a Cup 7 years ago. How does an aging Binner or Parayko help this team going forward? I don’t get the thought process. If business is business, there’s no loyalty to a bottom 5 franchise.

I agree.

One of the main reasons why the Blackhawks rebuild took so long was because of the lack of return for their 7 big guns (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson) from their 3 Cup era to help expedite the process.

They held on to most of them too long either thinking they had another run in them or for nostalgic reasons.
Only Hossa & Seabrook didn't move on to another team.

[Army's Mom]

If you tear it down and trade Schenn, Faulk, and whoever else, then you absolutely have to get the biggest haul for Parayko you can get. Not that I want him gone, but if you’re tearing it down he’ll be of zero use to us by the time we contend again, so get while the getting is good.

Problem there is, Parayko has the cards. You have to hope he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild and uproot the family.

For me there are 3 players that have earned the right to do what they want on this team, when you factor in their remaining contracts etc... Parayko gets to decide if he wants to be a lifelong Blue. If you play a whole career for a team, typically you are going to be apart of a rebuild at some point. He gets that choice. Binner next year basically gets the option to continue on (unless HOFER absolutely cremates him and steals the crease over the next 1.5 years) to extend as a Blue for his last contract or be traded to a real cup contender who seemingly a goalie boost could do wonders like an Oil. The last person is Thomas. No matter what iteration of your team you are in, Thomas helps. Even if he isn't the future 1C (he is) he's still an extremely valuable person with 6 years left on his contract. He gets to stay if we are in last place or 1st place.

After that, business is business. you have to look at their contracts and see if they are worth more to you than someone else. I circle back around tho, I think this is going to come down to us trading 1 high profile person out of the org, and 1 middling person and it's going to be for next to no return. That will be the option they go with if they feel like this isn't working out. Our cap is going to be really really good the next few years. They have room to pivot. But, they aren't going to tear it down nor should they. Too many young guys now and coming up to just rip it apart.

Why is anybody safe on this roster? You’re extending players because they won a Cup 7 years ago. How does an aging Binner or Parayko help this team going forward? I don’t get the thought process. If business is business, there’s no loyalty to a bottom 5 franchise.

I agree.

One of the main reasons why the Blackhawks rebuild took so long was because of the lack of return for their 7 big guns (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson) from their 3 Cup era to help expedite the process.

They held on to most of them too long either thinking they had another run in them or for nostalgic reasons.
Only Hossa & Seabrook didn't move on to another team.

Counterpoint: One of the main reasons the Hawks rebuild took so long was because they didn't retain any useful veterans to ease the growing pains for their incoming youth.

They brought in peime aged Hossa to support or the Kane/Toews youth movement. All they got to support Bedard was the ghosts of Hall and Perry...

I'm fine with going scorched earth, but only if the returns are there. I suspect the returns for Schenn and Binner would be low enough that theyre worth more, here.

Kyrou, though? I'll take whatever useful asset I can get.

[HighStick]

Joseph has 2 shortys already and you guys are gonna act like he's the problem? Joseph is the only one on the team who's showed any kind of a spark. It's all the BIG names and BIG pay checks that are massively underperforming. This suckage falls on the non-existent top 6, the softazz defense and the Swiss cheese goalies. The fringe players aren't the issue.

[callitwhatyouwant]

If you tear it down and trade Schenn, Faulk, and whoever else, then you absolutely have to get the biggest haul for Parayko you can get. Not that I want him gone, but if you’re tearing it down he’ll be of zero use to us by the time we contend again, so get while the getting is good.

Problem there is, Parayko has the cards. You have to hope he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild and uproot the family.

For me there are 3 players that have earned the right to do what they want on this team, when you factor in their remaining contracts etc... Parayko gets to decide if he wants to be a lifelong Blue. If you play a whole career for a team, typically you are going to be apart of a rebuild at some point. He gets that choice. Binner next year basically gets the option to continue on (unless HOFER absolutely cremates him and steals the crease over the next 1.5 years) to extend as a Blue for his last contract or be traded to a real cup contender who seemingly a goalie boost could do wonders like an Oil. The last person is Thomas. No matter what iteration of your team you are in, Thomas helps. Even if he isn't the future 1C (he is) he's still an extremely valuable person with 6 years left on his contract. He gets to stay if we are in last place or 1st place.

After that, business is business. you have to look at their contracts and see if they are worth more to you than someone else. I circle back around tho, I think this is going to come down to us trading 1 high profile person out of the org, and 1 middling person and it's going to be for next to no return. That will be the option they go with if they feel like this isn't working out. Our cap is going to be really really good the next few years. They have room to pivot. But, they aren't going to tear it down nor should they. Too many young guys now and coming up to just rip it apart.

Why is anybody safe on this roster? You’re extending players because they won a Cup 7 years ago. How does an aging Binner or Parayko help this team going forward? I don’t get the thought process. If business is business, there’s no loyalty to a bottom 5 franchise.

I agree.

One of the main reasons why the Blackhawks rebuild took so long was because of the lack of return for their 7 big guns (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson) from their 3 Cup era to help expedite the process.

They held on to most of them too long either thinking they had another run in them or for nostalgic reasons.
Only Hossa & Seabrook didn't move on to another team.

Counterpoint: One of the main reasons the Hawks rebuild took so long was because they didn't retain any useful veterans to ease the growing pains for their incoming youth.

They brought in peime aged Hossa to support or the Kane/Toews youth movement. All they got to support Bedard was the ghosts of Hall and Perry...

I'm fine with going scorched earth, but only if the returns are there. I suspect the returns for Schenn and Binner would be low enough that theyre worth more, here.

Kyrou, though? I'll take whatever useful asset I can get.

this is my opinion. There is no clear path that says you will be good in 5 years let alone 7-10 whatever. You have buffalo, chicago, detroit Utah (coyotes days) who showed that you can in theory say stripping it down to the studs is the way to go to get talent. But when you don't have people wanting to come to your place when talent is supposed to blossom, or you in buffalo's case seem to fumble the bag with them or in detroits not put the right group together. You end up in the same place you were. Buffalo is still terrible, Detroit is still mid, and Chicago has a good start. There is no "this is going to work 100 percent of the time," and I will argue not having the right pieces around young players does more damage to them than it does good.

We have a lot of young players coming up, they need some veteran presence that actually has skill. That's why I think you need Parayko,Thomas for your skaters and you don't get rid of Binner unless he want's no part of the team unless you had a viable plan B. Our plan B was Ellis/Hofer combo if the team didn't look like it was going to compete in the near future. Well that ship has sailed. It has nothing to do with the Cup 7 years ago. It has everything to do with those guys being up there for all time best players in their positions for the Blues, you give them the option if they want to help usher in the next generation or go chase.

[TheJackBurton]

So one year after making the playoffs and taking the Presidents cup winning team to the brink many want to trade away as many as 8 players?

C'mon now even in a fantasy scenario that isn't happening.

The season hasn't started off well, but that doesn't mean we go into tank mode and start a 2nd rebuild.

buch, kyrou both have full no trade clauses. You aren't just trading them away, they aren't going anywhere unless they choose the spot.

Schenn has a modified one, but he is also one of the main reasons the Blues have such a great locker room and culture.

Binny is very likely the most popular athlete in St. Louis currently and we have all seen what he can do when the games become important.

At the beginning of the year I would have said Faulk is a potential trade target, but since things have sputtered on the right side I am actually leaning to him getting a short extension until we can get that side stabilized.

All of that being said I did say Army will make a trade and I think it needs to be a TJ Oshie kind of shakeup trade.

Kyrou to LA for Adrian Kempe and extend Kempe. It will likely cost 2 million more a season, but Kempe doesn't take a single night off and has consistently hit 70 points a season and is a leader. That is the kind of trade that changes a team in a malaise.

Other potential ones that would cost little to nothing are of course the likes of Stamkos but I'm not sure that moves the needle other than he would actually shoot the puck regularly unlike half the forwards on the team.

[Hazelwood72]

So one year after making the playoffs and taking the Presidents cup winning team to the brink many want to trade away as many as 8 players?

C'mon now even in a fantasy scenario that isn't happening.

The season hasn't started off well, but that doesn't mean we go into tank mode and start a 2nd rebuild.

buch, kyrou both have full no trade clauses. You aren't just trading them away, they aren't going anywhere unless they choose the spot.

Schenn has a modified one, but he is also one of the main reasons the Blues have such a great locker room and culture.

Binny is very likely the most popular athlete in St. Louis currently and we have all seen what he can do when the games become important.

At the beginning of the year I would have said Faulk is a potential trade target, but since things have sputtered on the right side I am actually leaning to him getting a short extension until we can get that side stabilized.

All of that being said I did say Army will make a trade and I think it needs to be a TJ Oshie kind of shakeup trade.

Kyrou to LA for Adrian Kempe and extend Kempe. It will likely cost 2 million more a season, but Kempe doesn't take a single night off and has consistently hit 70 points a season and is a leader. That is the kind of trade that changes a team in a malaise.

Other potential ones that would cost little to nothing are of course the likes of Stamkos but I'm not sure that moves the needle other than he would actually shoot the puck regularly unlike half the forwards on the team.

Jack, I like your ideas, but why would the Kings trade Kempe for Kyrou? Do they have cap issues?

[TheJackBurton]

So one year after making the playoffs and taking the Presidents cup winning team to the brink many want to trade away as many as 8 players?

C'mon now even in a fantasy scenario that isn't happening.

The season hasn't started off well, but that doesn't mean we go into tank mode and start a 2nd rebuild.

buch, kyrou both have full no trade clauses. You aren't just trading them away, they aren't going anywhere unless they choose the spot.

Schenn has a modified one, but he is also one of the main reasons the Blues have such a great locker room and culture.

Binny is very likely the most popular athlete in St. Louis currently and we have all seen what he can do when the games become important.

At the beginning of the year I would have said Faulk is a potential trade target, but since things have sputtered on the right side I am actually leaning to him getting a short extension until we can get that side stabilized.

All of that being said I did say Army will make a trade and I think it needs to be a TJ Oshie kind of shakeup trade.

Kyrou to LA for Adrian Kempe and extend Kempe. It will likely cost 2 million more a season, but Kempe doesn't take a single night off and has consistently hit 70 points a season and is a leader. That is the kind of trade that changes a team in a malaise.

Other potential ones that would cost little to nothing are of course the likes of Stamkos but I'm not sure that moves the needle other than he would actually shoot the puck regularly unlike half the forwards on the team.

Jack, I like your ideas, but why would the Kings trade Kempe for Kyrou? Do they have cap issues?

They appear to be having a hard time coming to an agreement on a contract with him. They hadn't had talks and he's looking for a contract at about the same amount Martin Necas signed. However they did just finally start communicating again so who knows, but I would imagine if something doesn't get done soon, the trade rumors will start to pick up.

[Bacchk29]

So one year after making the playoffs and taking the Presidents cup winning team to the brink many want to trade away as many as 8 players?

C'mon now even in a fantasy scenario that isn't happening.

The season hasn't started off well, but that doesn't mean we go into tank mode and start a 2nd rebuild.

buch, kyrou both have full no trade clauses. You aren't just trading them away, they aren't going anywhere unless they choose the spot.

Schenn has a modified one, but he is also one of the main reasons the Blues have such a great locker room and culture.

Binny is very likely the most popular athlete in St. Louis currently and we have all seen what he can do when the games become important.

At the beginning of the year I would have said Faulk is a potential trade target, but since things have sputtered on the right side I am actually leaning to him getting a short extension until we can get that side stabilized.

All of that being said I did say Army will make a trade and I think it needs to be a TJ Oshie kind of shakeup trade.

Kyrou to LA for Adrian Kempe and extend Kempe. It will likely cost 2 million more a season, but Kempe doesn't take a single night off and has consistently hit 70 points a season and is a leader. That is the kind of trade that changes a team in a malaise.

Other potential ones that would cost little to nothing are of course the likes of Stamkos but I'm not sure that moves the needle other than he would actually shoot the puck regularly unlike half the forwards on the team.

In one paragraph you say you can’t trade Kyrou because of the full NTC. In another, you’re trading him to LA for Kempe who has the same production as Kyrou but you gonna extend him for $11 mil AAV? Which is it? My proposal doesn’t trade anyone just gives your prospects valuable experience instead of washed up vets who are blocking roster spots.

[Harry S Deals]

I can guarantee you without getting into a ton of details that this owner ship has made the calculation that they cannot financially afford a full "tear down". The end result could be a better situation at some point down the road but its the middle part that may be very problematic. If attendance were to drop significantly while the Blues rebuild with their prospects the ownership group may not be able to withstand the losses, then what?

Again its 16 games in and it hasnt looked very good, these same players do have a track record of producing and Neighbours is a very important piece. I do think they will improve I am unsure if they can improve enough, fast enough to make the playoffs.
Regardless i think the Blues are going to move pieces unless somehow they get red hot again and keep stocking up on kids and picks

In any case it doesnt make a ton of sense for where the Blues are now to do much more than what they are doing. The Blues dont have "kids" ready to come in and even play NHL minutes vs a Parayko or Faulk. There simply is no real reason to trade Kyrou unless you are getting the same RW value back.

But as i said if the wheels completely fall off i think they will move on from a few of their vets but not a full tear down

[TheJackBurton]

So one year after making the playoffs and taking the Presidents cup winning team to the brink many want to trade away as many as 8 players?

C'mon now even in a fantasy scenario that isn't happening.

The season hasn't started off well, but that doesn't mean we go into tank mode and start a 2nd rebuild.

buch, kyrou both have full no trade clauses. You aren't just trading them away, they aren't going anywhere unless they choose the spot.

Schenn has a modified one, but he is also one of the main reasons the Blues have such a great locker room and culture.

Binny is very likely the most popular athlete in St. Louis currently and we have all seen what he can do when the games become important.

At the beginning of the year I would have said Faulk is a potential trade target, but since things have sputtered on the right side I am actually leaning to him getting a short extension until we can get that side stabilized.

All of that being said I did say Army will make a trade and I think it needs to be a TJ Oshie kind of shakeup trade.

Kyrou to LA for Adrian Kempe and extend Kempe. It will likely cost 2 million more a season, but Kempe doesn't take a single night off and has consistently hit 70 points a season and is a leader. That is the kind of trade that changes a team in a malaise.

Other potential ones that would cost little to nothing are of course the likes of Stamkos but I'm not sure that moves the needle other than he would actually shoot the puck regularly unlike half the forwards on the team.

In one paragraph you say you can’t trade Kyrou because of the full NTC. In another, you’re trading him to LA for Kempe who has the same production as Kyrou but you gonna extend him for $11 mil AAV? Which is it? My proposal doesn’t trade anyone just gives your prospects valuable experience instead of washed up vets who are blocking roster spots.

I didn't say you couldn't trade him, I said you aren't just trading him to anyone.

There's a huge difference there.

[Harry S Deals]

Joseph has 2 shortys already and you guys are gonna act like he's the problem? Joseph is the only one on the team who's showed any kind of a spark. It's all the BIG names and BIG pay checks that are massively underperforming. This suckage falls on the non-existent top 6, the softazz defense and the Swiss cheese goalies. The fringe players aren't the issue.

Joseph is good as long hes on the 4th line

[Old_Goat]

Excellent thread back & forth...opposing viewpoints all thoughtful with reasonable rationale. I'm finding myself with, "I agree, then well I agree, then good point..." And yes there are more than on-ice considerations re the concept of rebuild. Like it or not, it is a professional sports business.
So, take it one step at a time, but make each next step fairly quickly. The pressure is on ALL concerned to either play and management to assess with little or no mistakes now. I would trade/waive/move Texier immediately and bring up whomever forward from Springfield -- I'll let those more knowledgeable than I decide whom it should be. (Note if trade, get draft pick or best prospect possible, not another journeyman NHLer.) Texier isn't currently and won't move the needle. Each next step thereafter to be determined.
Shiite or get off the pot.

[dhsux]

I can guarantee you without getting into a ton of details that this owner ship has made the calculation that they cannot financially afford a full "tear down". The end result could be a better situation at some point down the road but its the middle part that may be very problematic. If attendance were to drop significantly while the Blues rebuild with their prospects the ownership group may not be able to withstand the losses, then what?

Again its 16 games in and it hasnt looked very good, these same players do have a track record of producing and Neighbours is a very important piece. I do think they will improve I am unsure if they can improve enough, fast enough to make the playoffs.
Regardless i think the Blues are going to move pieces unless somehow they get red hot again and keep stocking up on kids and picks

In any case it doesnt make a ton of sense for where the Blues are now to do much more than what they are doing. The Blues dont have "kids" ready to come in and even play NHL minutes vs a Parayko or Faulk. There simply is no real reason to trade Kyrou unless you are getting the same RW value back.

But as i said if the wheels completely fall off i think they will move on from a few of their vets but not a full tear down

I don't see a tear down in any way shape or form.

One month ago this board was just about unanimous in thinking this team was going to make the play offs and quite a few, self included, looking at 100 points.

I get the reactions to the horrendous start but tear down is more fan talk than it is coming from the top.

If the malaise continues into January there will be some big changes but still not near "tear down". Personally I think the ship will get righted and the team will stick to it's planned youth movement.

[SameOldBlues]

If this is how the players are going to reward the fans, management and ownership for their loyalty, then go nuclear and blow this clusterphuk up once and for all and get serious about ridding this team of players who routinely give half-aazzzed efforts, and let the kids play and make mistakes and teach them. Why continue to go with the vets who keep makin the mistakes the kids will, but the kids will learn and get better, the pampered vets wont.

This team needs a new identity…and that’s seeking out draft picks and prospects with talent, skill, and a mean streak…but most importantly they need players who absolutely loathe and hate losing more than they like winning.

[hockey jedi]

I would trade Buch at the deadline, when hopefully his value is at the highest. He's been trending down since his first year in St. Louis.


73 30 46 76 29 34 0 15.1 8 11 2 2 3 18:18 17:34
63 26 41 67 14 36 1 21.1 8 13 0 2 2 19:27 18:17
80 27 36 63 3 48 1 13.0 8 10 2 1 5 19:49 25:10
76 20 37 57 10 23 0 13.8 2 10 0 2 3 19:01 25:22
16 2 5 7 -9 4 0 7.1 2 2 0 0 0 17:58 41:04

He's on pace for 36 points this year. He doesn't provide enough other dynamics that justify him being here.

I would trade Kyrou, but I want a king's ransom in return. That could be in the form of can't miss prospects and first round draft picks.The picks don't have to be from the 2026 draft. I know we will have to take salary and over the hill players back to make the deal work.

No way I want Parayko or Binner gone. Faulk isn't the same player he was when we got him, but he brings other characteristics that help. He works his tail off. There's no one I want from Springfield right now. Wait until after the WJC and we will see who is worthy. I understand this isn't a great draft, so I don't see a big selloff helping.