Cards Need an Owner Who Doesn't Need to make a profit

[Bomber1]

The fact of the matter is that the past 10 seasons have been a failure overall.

I don’t much care what he did 15-20 and more years ago.

And his employer shouldn’t have cared either. If he would have acted as most employers do, we would already be on the other side of the rebuild.

IMO, more than one thing is true:

(1) Since about 2016, I think the direction of Cardinals' ownership has been to keep chasing the level of success from 2000-2015 by putting more resources towards the ML club while not updating and improving the player development side. I think that, along with the dealing of some prospects (Alcantara, Gallen, Arozarena, etc.), led to a hollowing out of the vital prospect pipeline that is needed for the Cardinals to be consistently competitive. So I don't think ownership was necessarily willing to embrace rebuilding before now, no matter who was in the FO.

and

(2) Even if the direction from the ownership was faulty, the FO also implemented it poorly by making bad decisions with the extra resources that were being put towards the ML club with bad FA signings and bad early extensions for some Cardinals players.

So essentially you’re saying Mozeliak sucked for the past 10 years in all aspects of his job.

I agree.

Your opinion. And that’s all it is.

Yes it’s my opinion.

Also the vast majority of posters here share that opinion.

A very few share your opinion.

And that is a fact.

[Cranny]

The fact of the matter is that the past 10 seasons have been a failure overall.

I don’t much care what he did 15-20 and more years ago.

And his employer shouldn’t have cared either. If he would have acted as most employers do, we would already be on the other side of the rebuild.

IMO, more than one thing is true:

(1) Since about 2016, I think the direction of Cardinals' ownership has been to keep chasing the level of success from 2000-2015 by putting more resources towards the ML club while not updating and improving the player development side. I think that, along with the dealing of some prospects (Alcantara, Gallen, Arozarena, etc.), led to a hollowing out of the vital prospect pipeline that is needed for the Cardinals to be consistently competitive. So I don't think ownership was necessarily willing to embrace rebuilding before now, no matter who was in the FO.

and

(2) Even if the direction from the ownership was faulty, the FO also implemented it poorly by making bad decisions with the extra resources that were being put towards the ML club with bad FA signings and bad early extensions for some Cardinals players.

So essentially you’re saying Mozeliak sucked for the past 10 years in all aspects of his job.

I agree.

Your opinion. And that’s all it is.

Yes it’s my opinion.

Also the vast majority of posters here share that opinion.

A very few share your opinion.

And that is a fact.

You have no idea what the total breath of his job was.
Look at the organizational chart. I’m sure he did some things poorly and some things well. An objective look. But to say he
“sucked in all aspects of his job over the past 10 years” is naive and unfounded.

[Bomber1]

I would think being competitive for a playoff spot and averaging 35-40 thousand a night would be more profitable than the current state of Oli Ball. But maybe I'm wrong.

Just having the lazy, lame (donkey) Mo out of the picture will be a huge bonus. That guy was a putz.

he was waaaaaaay worse than a putz.

He was a part of the successes the Cardinals enjoyed over the 30 years he was with the team.

And he was the main part of the failure that has been 2016-2025.

The way to judge anyone, is to look at both their successes and their failures. If you only look at Mo's failures, your views are too one sided.

The fact of the matter is that the past 10 seasons have been a failure overall.

I don’t much care what he did 15-20 and more years ago.

And his employer shouldn’t have cared either. If he would have acted as most employers do, we would already be on the other side of the rebuild.

I think to be fair to Mo much of his decisions were based on direction from ownership. They chose the safer path. Take college pitchers with higher floors lower ceilings. Don't trade players that are fan favorites. Etc. Yes Mo made mistakes and the TEAM direction for 10 years has been very cautious and wrong. But I believe it was a TEAM effort and strategy that led us here.

I disagree with much of this as I believe Mozeliak was by far the biggest cause of these failures.

Bill DeWitt Jr. does not operate like Jerry Jones.
Sure DeWitt signed off on trades and signings as does every owner in all sports.
But DeWitt wasn’t telling Mozeliak - “Go get the sore-armed Ozuna and be sure to include Alcantara and Gallen in the deal.”
Same with the parade of signings of FA pitcher failures from Andrew Miller to Steven Matz.
Nor was he telling Mozeliak to draft the numerous complete failures that filled all those drafts.

I do believe DeWitt was probably the decision maker regarding the Carpenter extension and the idiotic Fowler signing.

All my opinion, but if I had to put percentages on their situation I would say Mozeliak bears about 80% of the responsibility with DeWitt at 20%.

Regardless, hopefully the organization is on the right track.

[Bomber1]

The fact of the matter is that the past 10 seasons have been a failure overall.

I don’t much care what he did 15-20 and more years ago.

And his employer shouldn’t have cared either. If he would have acted as most employers do, we would already be on the other side of the rebuild.

IMO, more than one thing is true:

(1) Since about 2016, I think the direction of Cardinals' ownership has been to keep chasing the level of success from 2000-2015 by putting more resources towards the ML club while not updating and improving the player development side. I think that, along with the dealing of some prospects (Alcantara, Gallen, Arozarena, etc.), led to a hollowing out of the vital prospect pipeline that is needed for the Cardinals to be consistently competitive. So I don't think ownership was necessarily willing to embrace rebuilding before now, no matter who was in the FO.

and

(2) Even if the direction from the ownership was faulty, the FO also implemented it poorly by making bad decisions with the extra resources that were being put towards the ML club with bad FA signings and bad early extensions for some Cardinals players.

So essentially you’re saying Mozeliak sucked for the past 10 years in all aspects of his job.

I agree.

Your opinion. And that’s all it is.

Yes it’s my opinion.

Also the vast majority of posters here share that opinion.

A very few share your opinion.

And that is a fact.

You have no idea what the total breath of his job was.
Look at the organizational chart. I’m sure he did some things poorly and some things well. An objective look. But to say he
“sucked in all aspects of his job over the past 10 years” is naive and unfounded.

Lol Cranny at your “objective look” in which you say “I’m sure he did some things poorly and some things well” without providing any backup for your opinion.

Here is an actual objective look - Over the course of the past 10 seasons, the Cardinals missed the playoffs 6 times while amassing a postseason record of 4-11, winning 1 postseason series and losing 4.

[Cranny]

The fact of the matter is that the past 10 seasons have been a failure overall.

I don’t much care what he did 15-20 and more years ago.

And his employer shouldn’t have cared either. If he would have acted as most employers do, we would already be on the other side of the rebuild.

IMO, more than one thing is true:

(1) Since about 2016, I think the direction of Cardinals' ownership has been to keep chasing the level of success from 2000-2015 by putting more resources towards the ML club while not updating and improving the player development side. I think that, along with the dealing of some prospects (Alcantara, Gallen, Arozarena, etc.), led to a hollowing out of the vital prospect pipeline that is needed for the Cardinals to be consistently competitive. So I don't think ownership was necessarily willing to embrace rebuilding before now, no matter who was in the FO.

and

(2) Even if the direction from the ownership was faulty, the FO also implemented it poorly by making bad decisions with the extra resources that were being put towards the ML club with bad FA signings and bad early extensions for some Cardinals players.

So essentially you’re saying Mozeliak sucked for the past 10 years in all aspects of his job.

I agree.

Your opinion. And that’s all it is.

Yes it’s my opinion.

Also the vast majority of posters here share that opinion.

A very few share your opinion.

And that is a fact.

You have no idea what the total breath of his job was.
Look at the organizational chart. I’m sure he did some things poorly and some things well. An objective look. But to say he
“sucked in all aspects of his job over the past 10 years” is naive and unfounded.

Lol Cranny at your “objective look” in which you say “I’m sure he did some things poorly and some things well” without providing any backup for your opinion.

Here is an actual objective look - Over the course of the past 10 seasons, the Cardinals missed the playoffs 6 times while amassing a postseason record of 4-11, winning 1 postseason series and losing 4.

Only part of his job. As I said, check out the Cardinals LLC organizational structure and see the widespread responsibilities of the POBO. My guess is you have no idea of the scope. And don’t tell me that he “sucked in all aspects of his job” when he pulled off the Goldy and Arenado trades and signed Contreras, Gray, etc. Did things go downhill some? Yes. But he has no control over things like Goldy and Arenado failing in the playoffs.

[OldRed]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

[Cranny]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

[rockondlouie]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

[Cranny]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

[Pura Vida]

To state the obvious, nothing last forever! That includes ownerships of teams...it's time for a new group to carry the torch.

2025 MLB team payrolls
From USA Today
(In present-day value calculated by MLB)

Not sure if this includes deferred pay, which is becoming a major issue.

New York Mets, $323,099,999
Los Angeles Dodgers, $321,287,291
New York Yankees, $293,488,972
Philadelphia Phillies, $284,210,820
Toronto Blue Jays, $239,642,532
Texas Rangers, $220,541,332
Houston Astros, $220,217,813
Atlanta Braves, $214,836,398
San Diego Padres, 208,909,333
Chicago Cubs, $196,288,250
Arizona Diamondbacks, $195,294,235
Boston Red Sox, $193,629,093
Los Angeles Angels, $190,508,096
San Francisco Giants, $173,019,524
Baltimore Orioles, $162,314,278
Seattle Mariners, $146,793,414
Detroit Tigers, $143,193,033
Minnesota Twins, $142,762,022
St. Louis Cardinals, $141,455,581
Kansas City Royals, $130,001,503
Colorado Rockies, $120,693,976
Cincinnati Reds, $115,466,833
Milwaukee Brewers, $115,136,227
Washington Nationals, $107,653,761
Cleveland Guardians, $100,522,729
Pittsburgh Pirates, $87,645,246
Chicago White Sox, $82,279,825
Tampa Bay Rays, $79,216,312
Athletics, $73,118,981
Miami Marlins, $67,412,619

[rockondlouie]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

Internet hoax.

Are you seriously going to believe a website out of the UK?

Here's Waino's wiki page, of course no mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Wainwright

Here's his Twitter account:
https://x.com/UncleCharlie50

Finally via A.I.:

The claim that Adam Wainwright is a co-owner of the St. Louis Cardinals is a hoax.

While there have been numerous rumors and social media posts suggesting this, these are false stories that have been widely debunked by fans and are not supported by official sources.

No official announcement: There have been no official announcements from the team or the owner, the DeWitt family, confirming Wainwright's status as a co-owner.

Debunked by fans: Many commenters on social media have identified these posts as fake news and called for others to verify information from reliable sources.



I understand you and OR are well, old but don't fall for this kind of baloney.

[Cranny]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

Internet hoax.

Are you seriously going to believe a website out of the UK?

Here's Waino's wiki page, of course no mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Wainwright

Here's his Twitter account:
https://x.com/UncleCharlie50

Finally via A.I.:

The claim that Adam Wainwright is a co-owner of the St. Louis Cardinals is a hoax.

While there have been numerous rumors and social media posts suggesting this, these are false stories that have been widely debunked by fans and are not supported by official sources.

No official announcement: There have been no official announcements from the team or the owner, the DeWitt family, confirming Wainwright's status as a co-owner.

Debunked by fans: Many commenters on social media have identified these posts as fake news and called for others to verify information from reliable sources.



I understand you and OR are well, old but don't fall for this kind of baloney.

Rock - when you get to be OR’s age and my age, you’ll find that age affects people differently. There are older people who are feeble and having a hard time getting around, and older people who haven’t “aged” that much at all. It’s not a one size fits all thing. I know classmates from high school who are still sharp as a tack and very competent physically (could easily hold their own against guys much younger).

[rockondlouie]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

Internet hoax.

Are you seriously going to believe a website out of the UK?

Here's Waino's wiki page, of course no mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Wainwright

Here's his Twitter account:
https://x.com/UncleCharlie50

Finally via A.I.:

The claim that Adam Wainwright is a co-owner of the St. Louis Cardinals is a hoax.

While there have been numerous rumors and social media posts suggesting this, these are false stories that have been widely debunked by fans and are not supported by official sources.

No official announcement: There have been no official announcements from the team or the owner, the DeWitt family, confirming Wainwright's status as a co-owner.

Debunked by fans: Many commenters on social media have identified these posts as fake news and called for others to verify information from reliable sources.



I understand you and OR are well, old but don't fall for this kind of baloney.

Rock - when you get to be OR’s age and my age, you’ll find that age affects people differently. There are older people who are feeble and having a hard time getting around, and older people who haven’t “aged” that much at all. It’s not a one size fits all thing. I know classmates from high school who are still sharp as a tack and very competent physically (could easily hold their own against guys much younger).

Certainly wasn't being disrespectful cranny, just don't want you guys falling for this kind of internet nonsense.

[WLTFE]

[Goldfan]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

Internet hoax.

Are you seriously going to believe a website out of the UK?

Here's Waino's wiki page, of course no mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Wainwright

Here's his Twitter account:
https://x.com/UncleCharlie50

Finally via A.I.:

The claim that Adam Wainwright is a co-owner of the St. Louis Cardinals is a hoax.

While there have been numerous rumors and social media posts suggesting this, these are false stories that have been widely debunked by fans and are not supported by official sources.

No official announcement: There have been no official announcements from the team or the owner, the DeWitt family, confirming Wainwright's status as a co-owner.

Debunked by fans: Many commenters on social media have identified these posts as fake news and called for others to verify information from reliable sources.



I understand you and OR are well, old but don't fall for this kind of baloney.

If Waino is singing the National Anthem for Home Opener…..he might be an owner.
BDW probably gave ole Waino a 0.00001% ownership clause in one of the last legacy contracts he and MO were handing out. Whatever the percentage, you’re still an “owner”

[OldRed]

The St. Louis Cardinals is currently owned by William DeWitt Jr, who has been the principal owner of the franchise since 1996. The ownership group of the team also includes William DeWitt III and Adam Wainwright.

When did this happen?

Several months ago.

I don't think so, Waino is NOT part of the Cardinals ownership group.

Google it and check the information coming from reliable sources.

Internet hoax.

Are you seriously going to believe a website out of the UK?

Here's Waino's wiki page, of course no mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Wainwright

Here's his Twitter account:
https://x.com/UncleCharlie50

Finally via A.I.:

The claim that Adam Wainwright is a co-owner of the St. Louis Cardinals is a hoax.

While there have been numerous rumors and social media posts suggesting this, these are false stories that have been widely debunked by fans and are not supported by official sources.

No official announcement: There have been no official announcements from the team or the owner, the DeWitt family, confirming Wainwright's status as a co-owner.

Debunked by fans: Many commenters on social media have identified these posts as fake news and called for others to verify information from reliable sources.



I understand you and OR are well, old but don't fall for this kind of baloney.

Rock - when you get to be OR’s age and my age, you’ll find that age affects people differently. There are older people who are feeble and having a hard time getting around, and older people who haven’t “aged” that much at all. It’s not a one size fits all thing. I know classmates from high school who are still sharp as a tack and very competent physically (could easily hold their own against guys much younger).

I fall into the active, and hopefully still sharp. But it would be dumb to take on guys physically that are much younger.

Everything I have found is Wainwright did buy into the Cardinals before the start of 2025 season. No mention of how much. It just seemed to slip by me.