Will be watching Dir. of Pitching Matt Pierpont developing No. 1 pick Liam Doyle

[11WSChamps]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

[ramfandan]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

[craviduce]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

Paul Skenes had 4 major ready pitches when drafted. Doyle should never be confused with Skenes. Infact, once he made his MLB debut he had 5, you an argue 6, major league pitches. Doyle has 1....a very good fastball. He has a feel for a splitter, but it needs refinement. His slider is crushable.

Churio and De La Cruz are offense, so they can't compare.

Let Doyle develope...what's wrong with that?

[11WSChamps]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

So you're saying Doyle at this point has the command over his pitches at the same time Skenes was drafted?

We both know that isn't true.

Skenes already had two secondary plus pitches and a wider repertoire. You're reaching.

Again comparing teams with no payroll to speak of and hardly a fan base. How long do you think Skenes is gong to be in Pittsburgh? Of course they're going to get the max mileage out of him.

[ramfandan]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

Paul Skenes had 4 major ready pitches when drafted. Doyle should never be confused with Skenes. Infact, once he made his MLB debut he had 5, you an argue 6, major league pitches. Doyle has 1....a very good fastball. He has a feel for a splitter, but it needs refinement. His slider is crushable.

Churio and De La Cruz are offense, so they can't compare.

Let Doyle develope...what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with development . Just hoping that when our powers to be feel Doyle is 'ready' that they don't get 2nd guessed up the kazoo with the 'why are they rushing the guy ?' Maybe I am overreacting to how many on CT feel that way but heck even when Masyn Winn came up for that final month 2 years ago , some were writing 'Why are they rushing this kid ? yeah , good glove but he can't hit . Then when he made the 2024 team, they continued the kid is being rushed ..
Is it just me as I do have buddies who follow the Brewers , Cubs and a couple other teams. I just don't hear them saying their fanbase is so focused on the 'why are we 'rushing' this guy or that guy ? ' Do other teams do that or is it that the Cardinals have been burned by Jordan Walker the latest, Gorman some and Dylan Carlson prior to that ? Your thoughts

[11WSChamps]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

Paul Skenes had 4 major ready pitches when drafted. Doyle should never be confused with Skenes. Infact, once he made his MLB debut he had 5, you an argue 6, major league pitches. Doyle has 1....a very good fastball. He has a feel for a splitter, but it needs refinement. His slider is crushable.

Churio and De La Cruz are offense, so they can't compare.

Let Doyle develope...what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with development . Just hoping that when our powers to be feel Doyle is 'ready' that they don't get 2nd guessed up the kazoo with the 'why are they rushing the guy ?' Maybe I am overreacting to how many on CT feel that way but heck even when Masyn Winn came up for that final month 2 years ago , some were writing 'Why are they rushing this kid ? yeah , good glove but he can't hit . Then when he made the 2024 team, they continued the kid is being rushed ..
Is it just me as I do have buddies who follow the Brewers , Cubs and a couple other teams. I just don't hear them saying their fanbase is so focused on the 'why are we 'rushing' this guy or that guy ? ' Do other teams do that or is it that the Cardinals have been burned by Jordan Walker the latest, Gorman some and Dylan Carlson prior to that ? Your thoughts

I for one never said they rushed Winn.

His defense was good enough to play for a team that should have been good enough offensively to carry him.

His offense doesn't come into play if the guys who are supposed to carry the load do so. Unfortunately that wasn't always the case.

And again we're talking about a potential high end rotation starter not a position player.

[Idaho Cards]

Love this thread. Baseball has separated themselves into the haves and the have nots. I love watching how the mid to low market teams level the playing field with R&D (Research and development). The last few years have been frustrating watching the Cardinals take flyers on players, hoping they could find that spark to rejuvenate their careers. A couple worked out - a lot did not. Hence - a smart reorganization that will have its share of birth pains.

On to LIam's development. I'm watching what they do with his delivery tempo - He is a max effort kid that pitches with a lot of emotion. Ok for a college baseball season, but this type of profile can be subject to rollercoaster performances. What changes will they make to make his delivery and mindset MLB ready.

Will Pierpont help him with channeling his emotions appropriately?

HIs strength was the late late late life on the end of his fastball making it ride up in the zone. Then he could work down in the zone with great horizontal numbers. Can we slow down his tempo, just a tad, and still maintain his horizontal and vertical ride, helping him repeat at a more consistent level?

He relies on very ballistic trunk rotation, which causes him to be late with his arm sometimes. I wonder if they will make him more directional to the plate so he doesn't run into timing issues with his release. Can he do that a still keep the horizontal numbers; might actually help in creating more Vert!!!!

An Exciting process to watch, FOR SURE.

great reply on Doyle's mechanics . spot on about his high fastball movement.
With ABS coming into MLB in 2026, I am thinking this could be a major plus for a kid like Doyle . Why ? Well ,it's been my experience that pro umpires don't call a lot of the high strikes . They do seem to call a lot of low balls just below the box srikes but tend to call more of the chest high balls hitting the top of the zone .. balls. I can imagine Doyle having a strike on a batter and then throwing one in upper strike zone area.. umpire calls it a ball and either catcher or Doyle pat their helmet/ hat and ABS shows it's a strike Now when he fires another high heater , the batter is thinking holy (bleep) the last one was a strike ,I better swing at this one or I am a goner. Doyle may get more major leaguers out on the high heater due to ABS.. Just a thought of how ABS may benefit this kid . I can see him hitting the high corners quite a bit with high velo pitches. Major league batters don't often go for the top of the zone pitches . They want the pitches thigh high to waist high mostly . Higher than that they tend to lay off.

[craviduce]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

Paul Skenes had 4 major ready pitches when drafted. Doyle should never be confused with Skenes. Infact, once he made his MLB debut he had 5, you an argue 6, major league pitches. Doyle has 1....a very good fastball. He has a feel for a splitter, but it needs refinement. His slider is crushable.

Churio and De La Cruz are offense, so they can't compare.

Let Doyle develope...what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with development . Just hoping that when our powers to be feel Doyle is 'ready' that they don't get 2nd guessed up the kazoo with the 'why are they rushing the guy ?' Maybe I am overreacting to how many on CT feel that way but heck even when Masyn Winn came up for that final month 2 years ago , some were writing 'Why are they rushing this kid ? yeah , good glove but he can't hit . Then when he made the 2024 team, they continued the kid is being rushed ..
Is it just me as I do have buddies who follow the Brewers , Cubs and a couple other teams. I just don't hear them saying their fanbase is so focused on the 'why are we 'rushing' this guy or that guy ? ' Do other teams do that or is it that the Cardinals have been burned by Jordan Walker the latest, Gorman some and Dylan Carlson prior to that ? Your thoughts

Winn went through the motions in the minor leagues, he was allowed to develop....Palm Beach, then Peoria in 2021. Peoria, then Springfield in 2022, with an AFL assignment at the end of the year. AAA in 2023, then promotion in September to the Bigs...but he sucked at the plate.

Masyn Winn was my favorite prospect for 3 years (and now my favorite player), I knew what he was, what he could do. I was glad he got the taste in 2023...it didn't bother me that he struggled, nor that the arm chair quarterbacks (which is all of us, tbh) griped...it was fair...for the most part. He excelled and lifted the concerns of fans in 2024.

My advice...be overly critical of your favorite players...it'll help in the long run. I'm still torn over how bad Graceffo pitches to Major League players...I had such high hopes during the 2021 draft, I praised the hell out of him...but I knew he had an uphill climb, Small Baseball conference, not a great baseball school, and they started late in the Spring b/c of weather. And he's panned out exactly how he should've. Not well. He can't miss bats...but I'm okay with it, b/c I didn't latch myself so hard to him that I couldn't take the criticism of others. Be critical of Doyle, it'll help you, I swear this to you.

And criticism is going to come with Doyle progress... as it should, he's the #5 pick, and he has quite a bit of work to do.

If he starts the season in the Majors or Springfield or Memphis...then so be it. He'll be ready when the org. thinks he's ready....and they can be wrong sometimes...it happens...Zack Thompson and Matthew Liberatore are perfect examples...they were handled very poorly in 2021-2024.

you can't prevent CT, nor any other forum from having differing opinions. If you get bent out shape on Doyle, then you'll become an easy target.

Just chill...enjoy his development. Get and Stay excited. And follow Tanner Franklin...I don't know if he'll make it as a starter, but he sure excites me...so does Doyle...but they have work still to do.

[Idaho Cards]

Absolutely RamFan - I wonder how the new rules are gonna affect the guys with big-time Vert. When u throw 95+ with 20-plus inches of Vert, I just don't think even MLB hitters can consistently hit those numbers at the top of the automated zone. Umpires are gonna have to call it because the hat tap will make them look bad. You add his 4seam 20plus inches of vert fb and then he throws the ball below the thighs and we are looking at big time horizontal numbers; we have a north/south weapon and a east/west weapon.

Fans are so caught up with in/out. They just don't understand that the game is won with high-spin efficiency up and east/west movement down in the zone. Many times this is created with lower spin efficiency. The best can add spin and take off spin.

The guys metrics play - at the SEC level and MLB level. Can the new development guys give him strategies to control his emotions and pitch every 5 days for an entire MLB season, without riding an emotional rollercoaster? That is the question.

[ramfandan]

No reason to rush him.

n.Kid has a lot to learn and the team isn't going anywhere next season

Skipping steps in the process is not a recipe for success.

Can understand 'the kid has a lot to learn' as a reason for any player but do not follow the 'and the team isn't going anywhere next season ' as
rationale for not promoting a player who may be ready .
The Oakland A's were certainly 'not going anywhere in 2025 ' yet they promoted Nick Kurtz to the majors (the 4th pick in 2024 draft and three picks ahead of JJ Wetherholt ). The A's won fewer games than the Cardinals yet felt it OK to promote Kurtz for they felt he was ready . Don't see how 'the team isn't going anywhere ' justifies not promoting someone who the front office feels is ready.

I would hate to lower our expectations in comparison to the Oakland A's.

You don't pattern things after other organizations and the Cardinals used to be that way. Not to mention with a high ceiling pitching prospect as opposed to a position player.

The former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't.

I get it its a new day supposedly but I would hope you would tread lighter with cost-controlled high level starting pitcher than a first round position player.

Like Paul Skenes ? So they were OK to start him since they are the lowly Pirates and the Cardinals should not lower the expectations to that team either OK
Actually , my OP was discussing if anyone thought Doyle could get a look-see later in 2026 . (as I said in discussions Masyn Winn sure did ) . I did NOT ever mention Doyle making the 2026 opening day roster or even in a month or two. What I was touting was how unique he is being the 'Madman' personality and how he could be a fan favorite when he reaches the big leagues.
I do think if there is a decision made somewhere in 2026 to promote Doyle (and not predicting that will happen ) , I do have a feeling that some on CT will disagree with the Pierpont, Cerfolio, Bloom decision and criticize them for 'rushing Doyle' . They will know better than the current 'professionals ' .
Your point about 'the former front office thought several players were ready and they weren't ' is certainly in the brains of many Cardinal fans not just you. Now quite a few posters are very leary of bringing up any youngster due to that . Other teams have brought up very young players without the fanbase cringing worrying about the promotion. Brewer fans welcomed and were excited about 20 year old Jackson Chourio, Reds with Elle DeLaCruz, on and on . Maybe if the Cardinals have JJ play well in 2026, some of the 'former past front office ' stuff will fade away . Cardinal fanbase has been burned a few times and are quite gunshy about younger kids playing .

Paul Skenes had 4 major ready pitches when drafted. Doyle should never be confused with Skenes. Infact, once he made his MLB debut he had 5, you an argue 6, major league pitches. Doyle has 1....a very good fastball. He has a feel for a splitter, but it needs refinement. His slider is crushable.

Churio and De La Cruz are offense, so they can't compare.

Let Doyle develope...what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with development . Just hoping that when our powers to be feel Doyle is 'ready' that they don't get 2nd guessed up the kazoo with the 'why are they rushing the guy ?' Maybe I am overreacting to how many on CT feel that way but heck even when Masyn Winn came up for that final month 2 years ago , some were writing 'Why are they rushing this kid ? yeah , good glove but he can't hit . Then when he made the 2024 team, they continued the kid is being rushed ..
Is it just me as I do have buddies who follow the Brewers , Cubs and a couple other teams. I just don't hear them saying their fanbase is so focused on the 'why are we 'rushing' this guy or that guy ? ' Do other teams do that or is it that the Cardinals have been burned by Jordan Walker the latest, Gorman some and Dylan Carlson prior to that ? Your thoughts

Winn went through the motions in the minor leagues, he was allowed to develop....Palm Beach, then Peoria in 2021. Peoria, then Springfield in 2022, with an AFL assignment at the end of the year. AAA in 2023, then promotion in September to the Bigs...but he sucked at the plate.

Masyn Winn was my favorite prospect for 3 years (and now my favorite player), I knew what he was, what he could do. I was glad he got the taste in 2023...it didn't bother me that he struggled, nor that the arm chair quarterbacks (which is all of us, tbh) griped...it was fair...for the most part. He excelled and lifted the concerns of fans in 2024.

My advice...be overly critical of your favorite players...it'll help in the long run. I'm still torn over how bad Graceffo pitches to Major League players...I had such high hopes during the 2021 draft, I praised the hell out of him...but I knew he had an uphill climb, Small Baseball conference, not a great baseball school, and they started late in the Spring b/c of weather. And he's panned out exactly how he should've. Not well. He can't miss bats...but I'm okay with it, b/c I didn't latch myself so hard to him that I couldn't take the criticism of others. Be critical of Doyle, it'll help you, I swear this to you.

And criticism is going to come with Doyle progress... as it should, he's the #5 pick, and he has quite a bit of work to do.

If he starts the season in the Majors or Springfield or Memphis...then so be it. He'll be ready when the org. thinks he's ready....and they can be wrong sometimes...it happens...Zack Thompson and Matthew Liberatore are perfect examples...they were handled very poorly in 2021-2024.

you can't prevent CT, nor any other forum from having differing opinions. If you get bent out shape on Doyle, then you'll become an easy target.

Just chill...enjoy his development. Get and Stay excited. And follow Tanner Franklin...I don't know if he'll make it as a starter, but he sure excites me...so does Doyle...but they have work still to do.

Good comments and advice ! Some background on Doyle from my perspective . Since I got to see him on TV quite a bit with U. Tenn. as the draft approached and saw how highly rated he was , I posted on CT that though he was a fireballer I was skeptical of his demeanor and 'Madman' persona. I I mentioned that I was not sure if this guy was going to be a 'handful ' at the big league level . As his own coach said , Liam pitches like he is in a bar fight. ' I didn't like he used expletives at times to other players. He was an 'in your face' type guy . That was not something I saw as a positive. Maybe others do . So I was and still am leary if he can comport himself well . Do we want a player who could incite brawls ? Maybe maturity will help him but I do have those concerns.
If he can harness that , he does have that ' full pedal to the medal ' type attitude about him. That was a crowd pleaser to the fans. As I compared him to the Mad Hungarian or 'The Mizz' on the Brewers , Doyle can rev up a crowd big time . That could be exciting to many in our fanbase and draw butts to the seats win or lose. I know the Mizz did that in Milwaukee .. though his initial games were much better and control became an issue , he nonetheless had the fans loving him and turning out in droves for his Brewer games. Doyle may do the same with his 'persona' too. I guess Bloom and boys were OK in taking the 'Wildman' and figured they could curtail his antics some. If they can , they may have something special. If not, Doyle could be a disaster too. Hoping he is the former In NFL draft lingo , Doyle could be tagged by scouts as 'a boom or bust type player. A guy who has the physical capabilities but questionable mental /eomotional makeup to be a long term star.

[DwaininAztec]

We shouldn't forget the other U of Tenn pitcher the Cardinals drafted, Tanner Franklin. He also has electric stuff, if he is able to control it. He should be another serious project for Pierpont.

[Carp4Cy]

His fastball would probably play now. He will need more than that to survive and it seems like a good part of his development could be working on those secondary pitches. I don't expect to see him in St Louis at all next season.

Backed up by what Bernie wrote about Bloom's approach to young pitchers:

Doyle projects as a fast-track talent but the Cardinals don’t want to rush him.

Rock, I usually agree with you (I think), but if Doyle doesn't get hurt or just get shelled in AAA after half a dozen starts, I'd fully expect him to come up to StL.
I could be wrong, but imo some players can and do learn more and faster at the MLB level than in the minors; maybe the pressure and the exposure and the just being at the major league level can help a guy develop much more than in the minors, even with apparent stumbles and setbacks in MLB--or because of them.
I'll be disappointed if Doyle isn't in the Cardinal rotation by July or August.

That wasn't my thought oky, it was Bernie's position on how he thinks Bloom will approach Doyle and other young Cardinals starters.

I'm w/you 100% so we still "usually" agree!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:05 am

-Doyle should be on the fast track to St. Louis, could even break camp with a great spring.

He might be ready to pitch in the bigs by August, but there is no reason to do that. The Cardinals won't be playing for anything and there is no reason to start his clock. Furthermore, if the owners do push for a salary cap, one of the things they will probably have to give up is letting young players get to free agency more quickly- perhaps at 4 or 5 years rather than after 6 as it is currently. This all makes starting their clock more important than ever. Again, there is nothing to be gained by doing that.

We can’t have a youth movement and then hide our top youth in the minors even when ready because we’ve just decided to lose by not using the talent we’ve developed. Do you see how futile that is?

“We aren’t going to bring in veterans because we have nothing to play for and they might block the prospects but we also aren’t going to promote the prospects either because we want to save them for … what exactly???”

[Carp4Cy]

Furthermore... he NEEDS work and repetition on the offspeed, or he'll be his Floor really quick....next closer for the St. Louis Cardinals. You don't rush this guy.

He'll likely K a bunch of people in AA, and more than half of you will say "OMG, it's Bloom and we should rush him now to the Majors". Please, don't ignore the other peripherals...BB/9, HR/9, BBA, etc.

Good pick, but he comes with some of the lowest floor I've seen in a #5 pick in a long time. That scares me.

I’m glad for it. The high flooor low ceiling types Mo kept drafting never made a difference for us.

[rockondlouie]

His fastball would probably play now. He will need more than that to survive and it seems like a good part of his development could be working on those secondary pitches. I don't expect to see him in St Louis at all next season.

Backed up by what Bernie wrote about Bloom's approach to young pitchers:

Doyle projects as a fast-track talent but the Cardinals don’t want to rush him.

Rock, I usually agree with you (I think), but if Doyle doesn't get hurt or just get shelled in AAA after half a dozen starts, I'd fully expect him to come up to StL.
I could be wrong, but imo some players can and do learn more and faster at the MLB level than in the minors; maybe the pressure and the exposure and the just being at the major league level can help a guy develop much more than in the minors, even with apparent stumbles and setbacks in MLB--or because of them.
I'll be disappointed if Doyle isn't in the Cardinal rotation by July or August.

That wasn't my thought oky, it was Bernie's position on how he thinks Bloom will approach Doyle and other young Cardinals starters.

I'm w/you 100% so we still "usually" agree!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:05 am

-Doyle should be on the fast track to St. Louis, could even break camp with a great spring.

He might be ready to pitch in the bigs by August, but there is no reason to do that. The Cardinals won't be playing for anything and there is no reason to start his clock. Furthermore, if the owners do push for a salary cap, one of the things they will probably have to give up is letting young players get to free agency more quickly- perhaps at 4 or 5 years rather than after 6 as it is currently. This all makes starting their clock more important than ever. Again, there is nothing to be gained by doing that.

Agreed TB

It won't happen

I guess I'm just sick & tired of these guys being hyped by the former POBO only to see them wallow in the minor leagues or get hurt (how old is T. Hence now, 38? )

[11WSChamps]

His fastball would probably play now. He will need more than that to survive and it seems like a good part of his development could be working on those secondary pitches. I don't expect to see him in St Louis at all next season.

Backed up by what Bernie wrote about Bloom's approach to young pitchers:

Doyle projects as a fast-track talent but the Cardinals don’t want to rush him.

Rock, I usually agree with you (I think), but if Doyle doesn't get hurt or just get shelled in AAA after half a dozen starts, I'd fully expect him to come up to StL.
I could be wrong, but imo some players can and do learn more and faster at the MLB level than in the minors; maybe the pressure and the exposure and the just being at the major league level can help a guy develop much more than in the minors, even with apparent stumbles and setbacks in MLB--or because of them.
I'll be disappointed if Doyle isn't in the Cardinal rotation by July or August.

That wasn't my thought oky, it was Bernie's position on how he thinks Bloom will approach Doyle and other young Cardinals starters.

I'm w/you 100% so we still "usually" agree!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:05 am

-Doyle should be on the fast track to St. Louis, could even break camp with a great spring.

He might be ready to pitch in the bigs by August, but there is no reason to do that. The Cardinals won't be playing for anything and there is no reason to start his clock. Furthermore, if the owners do push for a salary cap, one of the things they will probably have to give up is letting young players get to free agency more quickly- perhaps at 4 or 5 years rather than after 6 as it is currently. This all makes starting their clock more important than ever. Again, there is nothing to be gained by doing that.

Agreed TB

It won't happen

I guess I'm just sick & tired of these guys being hyped by the former POBO only to see them wallow in the minor leagues or get hurt (how old is T. Hence now, 38? )

Unfortunately some folks here want to turn this into some side show to "put butts in the seats" like this is Pittsburgh or Oakland.

Lets hope this organization doesn't lower itself to that level.

[rockondlouie]

His fastball would probably play now. He will need more than that to survive and it seems like a good part of his development could be working on those secondary pitches. I don't expect to see him in St Louis at all next season.

Backed up by what Bernie wrote about Bloom's approach to young pitchers:

Doyle projects as a fast-track talent but the Cardinals don’t want to rush him.

Rock, I usually agree with you (I think), but if Doyle doesn't get hurt or just get shelled in AAA after half a dozen starts, I'd fully expect him to come up to StL.
I could be wrong, but imo some players can and do learn more and faster at the MLB level than in the minors; maybe the pressure and the exposure and the just being at the major league level can help a guy develop much more than in the minors, even with apparent stumbles and setbacks in MLB--or because of them.
I'll be disappointed if Doyle isn't in the Cardinal rotation by July or August.

That wasn't my thought oky, it was Bernie's position on how he thinks Bloom will approach Doyle and other young Cardinals starters.

I'm w/you 100% so we still "usually" agree!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:05 am

-Doyle should be on the fast track to St. Louis, could even break camp with a great spring.

He might be ready to pitch in the bigs by August, but there is no reason to do that. The Cardinals won't be playing for anything and there is no reason to start his clock. Furthermore, if the owners do push for a salary cap, one of the things they will probably have to give up is letting young players get to free agency more quickly- perhaps at 4 or 5 years rather than after 6 as it is currently. This all makes starting their clock more important than ever. Again, there is nothing to be gained by doing that.

Agreed TB

It won't happen

I guess I'm just sick & tired of these guys being hyped by the former POBO only to see them wallow in the minor leagues or get hurt (how old is T. Hence now, 38? )

Unfortunately some folks here want to turn this into some side show to "put butts in the seats" like this is Pittsburgh or Oakland.

Lets hope this organization doesn't lower itself to that level.