You’re Gonna Hate A Donovan Deal

[Bomber1]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

Cool story.

[Bomber1]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

One big difference you overlooked. Merrifield was 33 years old when KC finally traded him . Donovan is 28 years old ( will call him 29 though as his 29th birthday is upcoming in January ) . A HUGE difference in baseball terms.

Merrifield retired at age 35. Teams wanting him in a trade knew they would be getting him for just two years most likely. Donovan has several years left in his career.

Donovan is an easy sell. You can't get around the 3 facts....29 with 2 more years of cheap control, highly versatile defensively, and good LHB.

He fits a lot of teams goals for this offseason.

Let's be realistic: he won't bring Current Starting MLB pitcher, nor Current Starting MLB Bats....we'll get prospects, and they'll be pretty decent ones...we should be grateful...b/c he want fetch that next season....this is the best time to trade him. We're not actively trying to compete the next few seasons....I'd try all winter to get a bidding war going....trade him around January.

I agree. If Bloom can't get something in return that doesn't bode well. I'm not sure it was a good idea to leak the fact he wanted to trade Donovan. In the case of Betts it was the owner who went public and then pulled it back. I don't think making it public helps get the best return. Perhaps better to act like you think highly of the guy and are reluctant to trade but would listen to offers.

You just never give up do you?

When will you acknowledge that saying “We’re going to listen to offers” is not the same as “I want to trade Donovan”?

Bloom is not the complete idiot that his predecessor was.

[ScotchMIrish]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

One big difference you overlooked. Merrifield was 33 years old when KC finally traded him . Donovan is 28 years old ( will call him 29 though as his 29th birthday is upcoming in January ) . A HUGE difference in baseball terms.

Merrifield retired at age 35. Teams wanting him in a trade knew they would be getting him for just two years most likely. Donovan has several years left in his career.

Donovan is an easy sell. You can't get around the 3 facts....29 with 2 more years of cheap control, highly versatile defensively, and good LHB.

He fits a lot of teams goals for this offseason.

Let's be realistic: he won't bring Current Starting MLB pitcher, nor Current Starting MLB Bats....we'll get prospects, and they'll be pretty decent ones...we should be grateful...b/c he want fetch that next season....this is the best time to trade him. We're not actively trying to compete the next few seasons....I'd try all winter to get a bidding war going....trade him around January.

I agree. If Bloom can't get something in return that doesn't bode well. I'm not sure it was a good idea to leak the fact he wanted to trade Donovan. In the case of Betts it was the owner who went public and then pulled it back. I don't think making it public helps get the best return. Perhaps better to act like you think highly of the guy and are reluctant to trade but would listen to offers.

You just never give up do you?

When will you acknowledge that saying “We’re going to listen to offers” is not the same as “I want to trade Donovan”?

Bloom is not the complete idiot that his predecessor was.

Distinction without a difference.

[rockondlouie]

I never expected a "haul" for Donny, he's not got that kind of value.

But coupled w/a catcher I think he brings back a #3 starter w/a couple years control or an OF upgrade over J. Walker (low bar).

[Ozziesfan41]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

One big difference you overlooked. Merrifield was 33 years old when KC finally traded him . Donovan is 28 years old ( will call him 29 though as his 29th birthday is upcoming in January ) . A HUGE difference in baseball terms.

Merrifield retired at age 35. Teams wanting him in a trade knew they would be getting him for just two years most likely. Donovan has several years left in his career.

Donovan is an easy sell. You can't get around the 3 facts....29 with 2 more years of cheap control, highly versatile defensively, and good LHB.

He fits a lot of teams goals for this offseason.

Let's be realistic: he won't bring Current Starting MLB pitcher, nor Current Starting MLB Bats....we'll get prospects, and they'll be pretty decent ones...we should be grateful...b/c he want fetch that next season....this is the best time to trade him. We're not actively trying to compete the next few seasons....I'd try all winter to get a bidding war going....trade him around January.

I agree. If Bloom can't get something in return that doesn't bode well. I'm not sure it was a good idea to leak the fact he wanted to trade Donovan. In the case of Betts it was the owner who went public and then pulled it back. I don't think making it public helps get the best return. Perhaps better to act like you think highly of the guy and are reluctant to trade but would listen to offers.

I don’t think bloom ever said he wanted to trade Donovan. Most analysts think Donovan would be traded because they know it would be dumb for the cardinals to keep him based on where they are as a team. Also it would make no difference for bloom to talk about or not talk about Donovan because teams would figure out he’s willing to trade Donovan when he bring up his name in trade talks. Mo was the idiot who would tell everyone he’s not trading this player or that player unless he’s overwhelmed by an offer which would put other teams off no deals get done then the cardinals end up keeping that player until he sucks so bad he is traded for nothing like Carlson hopefully bloom doesn’t go that dumb route of negotiation

[CorneliusWolfe]

Kinda disagree

BD should be traded this offseason to a contender for 2-3 of their top prospects (not current MLB players). What those prospects turn into 3-5 years from now — that is the fun of it.

Disagree that's the fun of it. Experience has taught me we are eventually underwhelmed by pretty much all prospect trades not featuring Wainwright. Fun to me is producing runs and wins at the MLB level.

Bc you had bad experiences with previous decision makers your recommendation is to do nothing out of fear of failure? Get some therapy

I’m saying it’s not fun to watch a losing MLB team and try to constantly deny the cognitive dissonance that losing is somehow the yen yang path to winning in some messed up universe. The people who believe that are the ones that need therapy.

The Blue Jays just went worst to first. They did it with a 255m payroll, not by tanking for most of a decade and tormenting the fans.

It amazes me how so many embrace losing for a decade and think all that losing and favorable draft positioning will automatically result in multiple championships. When it doesn’t work, what happens? Tear it all down again and wait another decade. At least our poor owner will save a lot of money though. That’s why I watch and cheer for the team…to make sure BDW doesn’t go broke!

[ramfandan]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

One big difference you overlooked. Merrifield was 33 years old when KC finally traded him . Donovan is 28 years old ( will call him 29 though as his 29th birthday is upcoming in January ) . A HUGE difference in baseball terms.

Merrifield retired at age 35. Teams wanting him in a trade knew they would be getting him for just two years most likely. Donovan has several years left in his career.

Donovan is an easy sell. You can't get around the 3 facts....29 with 2 more years of cheap control, highly versatile defensively, and good LHB.

He fits a lot of teams goals for this offseason.

Let's be realistic: he won't bring Current Starting MLB pitcher, nor Current Starting MLB Bats....we'll get prospects, and they'll be pretty decent ones...we should be grateful...b/c he want fetch that next season....this is the best time to trade him. We're not actively trying to compete the next few seasons....I'd try all winter to get a bidding war going....trade him around January.

I agree. If Bloom can't get something in return that doesn't bode well. I'm not sure it was a good idea to leak the fact he wanted to trade Donovan. In the case of Betts it was the owner who went public and then pulled it back. I don't think making it public helps get the best return. Perhaps better to act like you think highly of the guy and are reluctant to trade but would listen to offers.

I don’t think bloom ever said he wanted to trade Donovan. Most analysts think Donovan would be traded because they know it would be dumb for the cardinals to keep him based on where they are as a team. Also it would make no difference for bloom to talk about or not talk about Donovan because teams would figure out he’s willing to trade Donovan when he bring up his name in trade talks. Mo was the idiot who would tell everyone he’s not trading this player or that player unless he’s overwhelmed by an offer which would put other teams off no deals get done then the cardinals end up keeping that player until he sucks so bad he is traded for nothing like Carlson hopefully bloom doesn’t go that dumb route of negotiation

Exactly ! And if I remember correctly. Didn’t Mo proclaim just prior to Winter Meetings he intended to trade NA within 10 days. (That 10 day window is in my brain) If I am a team wanting NA and hear that I would certainly hold firm on a lowball offer figuring Mo wants to sell quickly. Imagine if a seller stated he wanted to sell his house within 10 days, would YOU put in a market offer fir that house. No way !

[Othawhitemeat]

There will be a bidding war for Donovan this offseason. You can count around 10-15 teams that could use him. If we keep him, I hope it's not a Fedde situation where his value plummets. I hope Bloom has the foresight to see this. Get that bidding war going, Bloom...get more than you should for Donovan.... One more thing...I doubt we get major league ready talent for Donovan. That would be a dumb trade....get prospects that could be ready by 2027.

Now...I agree that he won't fetch a #2 starter. And, honestly, I don't know many real fans that think he could fetch a #2 starter or anything close to that...the only person I've seen expecting that is our resident dunce, Shady...constantly assumes every player will get several rotation starters in return.

2 years at an affordable cost....teams will jump on that.

I do agree we could maybe fetch a haul for Donnie in terms of prospects based on leadership, productivity, contract, and should be in middle of his prime. I do think it would be playoff type teams that need stability so I see Yankees, Mariners, Diamondbacks, Mets, etc. and he could make a world of difference. I guess I look at it as getting fringe top 50 players and more likely 50-100 type top prospects in pecking order. I hope it is Mariners looking at what they have in that realm and honestly believe Donnie could have been the difference for them against the Blue Jays, imo.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Even if you can get a high quality AA K per 9 bullpen arm for think you do it.

If you get trash keep him.

[juan good eye]

Kinda disagree

BD should be traded this offseason to a contender for 2-3 of their top prospects (not current MLB players). What those prospects turn into 3-5 years from now — that is the fun of it.

Disagree that's the fun of it. Experience has taught me we are eventually underwhelmed by pretty much all prospect trades not featuring Wainwright. Fun to me is producing runs and wins at the MLB level.

Bc you had bad experiences with previous decision makers your recommendation is to do nothing out of fear of failure? Get some therapy

I’m saying it’s not fun to watch a losing MLB team and try to constantly deny the cognitive dissonance that losing is somehow the yen yang path to winning in some messed up universe. The people who believe that are the ones that need therapy.

The Blue Jays just went worst to first. They did it with a 255m payroll, not by tanking for most of a decade and tormenting the fans.

So you’re too willfully ignorant to understand how strategic rebuilds work? Or like many casuals you prefer the instant gratification of mediocre Moball instead of embracing a winning future that is both sustainable and achievable.

Also, the Cards will not have a top 5 (or 10 probably) payroll in the current system so it’s foolish to mention the Jays.

Even with big market funds or under a cap — a team with a bad front office implementing awful systems is never going to win a championship. Accept it.

[RunSup]

If the Cardinals trade Brendan Donovan, the return will not even be close to the “haul” most of you are expecting. He is essentially a poor man’s Whit Merrifield. Merrifield had much better speed, had a better hit tool and could play CF. The Royals couldn’t trade him because they were better off keeping him, because as a trade chip, he didn’t have much value. Donovan is essentially a JAG. (As are guys like Nootbaar, Burleson, et al.). He’s not bringing back a #2 starter with control or a top prospect. The return will be a Tier 2, a Tier 3, and a lottery ticket.

One big difference you overlooked. Merrifield was 33 years old when KC finally traded him . Donovan is 28 years old ( will call him 29 though as his 29th birthday is upcoming in January ) . A HUGE difference in baseball terms.

Merrifield retired at age 35. Teams wanting him in a trade knew they would be getting him for just two years most likely. Donovan has several years left in his career.

Donovan is an easy sell. You can't get around the 3 facts....29 with 2 more years of cheap control, highly versatile defensively, and good LHB.

He fits a lot of teams goals for this offseason.

Let's be realistic: he won't bring Current Starting MLB pitcher, nor Current Starting MLB Bats....we'll get prospects, and they'll be pretty decent ones...we should be grateful...b/c he want fetch that next season....this is the best time to trade him. We're not actively trying to compete the next few seasons....I'd try all winter to get a bidding war going....trade him around January.

And I'd be very happy with that.

[Cardinalss4Ever]

Not a firm believer in Future Values. (See Michael Harris January 2023 (178.3) and now (5.4) One good year, sign a long term contract, mediocre since. Guess they should have traded him right then. Or others at there highest values, Jo Adell, our own Carlson, Noot, Gorman & Walker amongst others. Like WAR, a whole lot of opinions built in

That said, over the last month, the following are Donovan proposals in MLB Trade values over the last month.

Note: I have pared a couple down of throw-ins on both side, so basically value for value.

Angels
Donovan for Klassen and Tyler Bremner

Mariners
Donovan, Lars, (NA &20large) for Kade Anderson (Basically Nolan and cash nullify each other, so basically Brendan and Lars for this year’s 3rd overall pick.

Mariners
Donovan for Bryce Miller and Ryan Stone.

Reds
Donovan for Nick Lodolo

Red Sox
Donovan for Wilyer Abreu


Edited for punctuation error.

[Carp4Cy]

Kinda disagree

BD should be traded this offseason to a contender for 2-3 of their top prospects (not current MLB players). What those prospects turn into 3-5 years from now — that is the fun of it.

Disagree that's the fun of it. Experience has taught me we are eventually underwhelmed by pretty much all prospect trades not featuring Wainwright. Fun to me is producing runs and wins at the MLB level.

Bc you had bad experiences with previous decision makers your recommendation is to do nothing out of fear of failure? Get some therapy

I’m saying it’s not fun to watch a losing MLB team and try to constantly deny the cognitive dissonance that losing is somehow the yen yang path to winning in some messed up universe. The people who believe that are the ones that need therapy.

The Blue Jays just went worst to first. They did it with a 255m payroll, not by tanking for most of a decade and tormenting the fans.

So you’re too willfully ignorant to understand how strategic rebuilds work? Or like many casuals you prefer the instant gratification of mediocre Moball instead of embracing a winning future that is both sustainable and achievable.

Also, the Cards will not have a top 5 (or 10 probably) payroll in the current system so it’s foolish to mention the Jays.

Even with big market funds or under a cap — a team with a bad front office implementing awful systems is never going to win a championship. Accept it.

There’s more than 2 paths here. Mo is a bad idea. Becoming the Pirates even for 3-4 years is a maybe worse idea.

Doing both development and MLB winning with smart investing at the same time and spending the max that a crown jewel franchise like the STL Cardinals should be able to afford is the ideal path here. And historical we should be able to support close to $200m based on prior year success and baseball inflation.

Probably requires a new ownership to be willing to try it. But yeah that’s my version of “fun”.
Not watching technocrats insist their way is the only way in search of BDW’s wallet savings and missed opportunities to both put a better product on the field and develop for the future at the same time. That’s a false dichotomy they are presenting and some posters are buying into. And it might not even work.

[juan good eye]

Kinda disagree

BD should be traded this offseason to a contender for 2-3 of their top prospects (not current MLB players). What those prospects turn into 3-5 years from now — that is the fun of it.

Disagree that's the fun of it. Experience has taught me we are eventually underwhelmed by pretty much all prospect trades not featuring Wainwright. Fun to me is producing runs and wins at the MLB level.

Bc you had bad experiences with previous decision makers your recommendation is to do nothing out of fear of failure? Get some therapy

I’m saying it’s not fun to watch a losing MLB team and try to constantly deny the cognitive dissonance that losing is somehow the yen yang path to winning in some messed up universe. The people who believe that are the ones that need therapy.

The Blue Jays just went worst to first. They did it with a 255m payroll, not by tanking for most of a decade and tormenting the fans.

So you’re too willfully ignorant to understand how strategic rebuilds work? Or like many casuals you prefer the instant gratification of mediocre Moball instead of embracing a winning future that is both sustainable and achievable.

Also, the Cards will not have a top 5 (or 10 probably) payroll in the current system so it’s foolish to mention the Jays.

Even with big market funds or under a cap — a team with a bad front office implementing awful systems is never going to win a championship. Accept it.

There’s more than 2 paths here. Mo is a bad idea. Becoming the Pirates even for 3-4 years is a maybe worse idea.

Doing both development and MLB winning with smart investing at the same time and spending the max that a crown jewel franchise like the STL Cardinals should be able to afford is the ideal path here. And historical we should be able to support close to $200m based on prior year success and baseball inflation.

Probably requires a new ownership to be willing to try it. But yeah that’s my version of “fun”.
Not watching technocrats insist their way is the only way in search of BDW’s wallet savings and missed opportunities to both put a better product on the field and develop for the future at the same time. That’s a false dichotomy they are presenting and some posters are buying into. And it might not even work.

Pirates? Pirates don’t rebuild thus they have nothing to do with this conversation thus ignorance persists.

And the Cards spending ~$200 mil on the currently pathetic team so that the pathetic team will be less pathetic but not great ie WS caliber will still leave fans like me very disappointed (as the last 10 years have) while dramatically slowing down the rebuild process due to holding on to vets instead trading for futures, lower talent draft picks, blocking youth bc big contracts have to play, and a ton of deadweight on the payroll when the team is finally ready to contend. You are part of the problem.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I don't agree that Merryfield is a good comp. Donovan has a much better hit tool and OBP. 101 OPS+ versus 117 OPS+. That delta does matter.

Second Donovan is a TRUE utility player capable of playing infield positions at a high level. While Merryfield was a better OFer and faster he didn't play much infield and never SS and very little 3B. Donovan is capable of playing any infield position at an acceptable level. That adds value.

Lastly (as mentioned before) he was traded in his age 33 season. This is an age players typically decline. Anyone getting Donovan now gets his 28-30 age career which is typically prime years.

I have never used the word "haul" in regards to the return. But I believe Donovan should return a player in the back half of the baseballs top 100 prospects AND a wild card fitting somewhere in the back end of STL top 20 prospects.

[renostl]

I don't agree that Merryfield is a good comp. Donovan has a much better hit tool and OBP. 101 OPS+ versus 117 OPS+. That delta does matter.

Second Donovan is a TRUE utility player capable of playing infield positions at a high level. While Merryfield was a better OFer and faster he didn't play much infield and never SS and very little 3B. Donovan is capable of playing any infield position at an acceptable level. That adds value.

Lastly (as mentioned before) he was traded in his age 33 season. This is an age players typically decline. Anyone getting Donovan now gets his 28-30 age career which is typically prime years.

I have never used the word "haul" in regards to the return. But I believe Donovan should return a player in the back half of the baseballs top 100 prospects AND a wild card fitting somewhere in the back end of STL top 20 prospects.

Agree.
He will bring a solid return as a stand alone trade with the potential to add to him and really change things up.

Just don't decrease his value by adding something bad
to the deal if made.

I still think there is a path they keep him and attemp to move Gorman.