Absolutely have to do better than Pallante and Mikolas.

[sikeston bulldog2]

If he is at all tradeable, I wish they would trade Pallante. if he is here, they will be tempted to put him in the rotation.

I’m the only Pallante guy here I think. I’ve seen several very well pitched games, so it’s not talent or potential that’s missing. The problem is what gets most pro athletes, consistency. He is currently our number five. That’s five innings of four run ball. On those days it’s solely up to the offense.

The number five game is a toss up anyway.

You just described a 7.20 ERA.

Of course some games will be better, even a gem or two. The point being. If your first four split at 2-2, number five is a tie breaker. Some days will be ugly.

Wanna see a rainbow gotta stand a little rain.

[Dazepster]

Agree. Addition by subtraction. No matter who the replacement players might be.

Wear it Well or Hit The Road. Past time for both to hit the proverbial road.

[ecleme22]

If he is at all tradeable, I wish they would trade Pallante. if he is here, they will be tempted to put him in the rotation.

I’m the only Pallante guy here I think. I’ve seen several very well pitched games, so it’s not talent or potential that’s missing. The problem is what gets most pro athletes, consistency. He is currently our number five. That’s five innings of four run ball. On those days it’s solely up to the offense.

The number five game is a toss up anyway.

You just described a 7.20 ERA.

Of course some games will be better, even a gem or two. The point being. If your first four split at 2-2, number five is a tie breaker. Some days will be ugly.

Wanna see a rainbow gotta stand a little rain.

1975-2025: Worst ERAs by a Cardinals' starter with 30 or more starts:
Marquis, 2006: 6.02 ERA
Mikolas, 2024: 5.35 ERA
Pallante, 2025: 5.31 ERA

[rockondlouie]

No doubt

Toss in Fedde and it would be hard to believe you could field three worse starting pitchers.

(And if he's back, then Pallante can't be in the SR! The only way it happens is if BDWJr is too cheap to give C. Bloom some money to add a starting pitcher or two)

[Melville]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

Doing better than Pallante and Mikolas should not be difficult.
How is your fastball and do you throw a breaking ball?
You just might be a step up

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

Yes, STL pitching is poor. STL is a pitchers park and the team was 21st in ERA. They need an infusion of talent. Not just two guys. Problem is there are only three potential sources.

Farm system - there are a few guys but not enough to overhaul the starters and pen. Using the very best they have and development be darned they are still below average. And they ruin some young arms that might become something better.

Free Agency - they are not going to spend large this year. And sadly they would need to add at least 3-5 above average arms to think about competing with the playoff teams. The cost to do that is north of $80 mil a year. Never mind the missing offense.

International - the days when a great player could be found and signed for a song are over. That channel is closed since all the teams now scout everywhere.

STL will not have a good pitching staff in 2026. Hopefully there will be some pleasant surprises come from the farm to build on. And hopefully the same happens on the offensive side.

As for Mikolas he is a free agent and no way he returns to STL. Pallante was a mystery last year. He pitched much better prior to 2025. Perhaps he played thru something or whatever. In either case it hurts his expected ARB cost and I suspect he is already inked in the rotation for 2025 to see if 2025 was an aberration.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

No doubt

Toss in Fedde and it would be hard to believe you could field three worse starting pitchers.

(And if he's back, then Pallante can't be in the SR! The only way it happens is if BDWJr is too cheap to give C. Bloom some money to add a starting pitcher or two)

First yes I do believe they will put him in the rotation. They are not going to spend a lot of money and they need innings. Plus, he was a lot better prior to 2025 so who knows maybe he rebounds. As a rebuilding team why worry?

[craviduce]

do better? We're letting Leahy stretch out to starter....That's a clue right there that the Org isn't serious about "doing better" .

Leahy learned to excel as a long reliever this year...that doesn't mean he'll carry the velocity from reliever back to starter.

He was a horrible starter in the minors...at least his bar is set really low in 2026. A 5.00 ERA would be a major step forward for Leahy.

[rockondlouie]

No doubt

Toss in Fedde and it would be hard to believe you could field three worse starting pitchers.

(And if he's back, then Pallante can't be in the SR! The only way it happens is if BDWJr is too cheap to give C. Bloom some money to add a starting pitcher or two)

First yes I do believe they will put him in the rotation. They are not going to spend a lot of money and they need innings. Plus, he was a lot better prior to 2025 so who knows maybe he rebounds. As a rebuilding team why worry?

He's only a "last resort" starter AZC.

If Bloom can deal NADO and/or Gray or WillyC, then I could see BDWJr letting him use any savings for player additions.

Won't be a lot of money since Dewitt will have to eat large sums of NADO and Gray's deal just to get a decent return but could be enough for Bloom to find an upgrade over the pitiful Pallante.

What he did in 2024 may have just been the league not seeing him as a starter.

Once they had a book on him, he was one of the worst starters in MLB last season.

I don't see him improving.

And no worry, just don't want to see that slug starting.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

No doubt

Toss in Fedde and it would be hard to believe you could field three worse starting pitchers.

(And if he's back, then Pallante can't be in the SR! The only way it happens is if BDWJr is too cheap to give C. Bloom some money to add a starting pitcher or two)

First yes I do believe they will put him in the rotation. They are not going to spend a lot of money and they need innings. Plus, he was a lot better prior to 2025 so who knows maybe he rebounds. As a rebuilding team why worry?

He's only a "last resort" starter AZC.

If Bloom can deal NADO and/or Gray or WillyC, then I could see BDWJr letting him use any savings for player additions.

Won't be a lot of money since Dewitt will have to eat large sums of NADO and Gray's deal just to get a decent return but could be enough for Bloom to find an upgrade over the pitiful Pallante.

What he did in 2024 may have just been the league not seeing him as a starter.

Once they had a book on him, he was one of the worst starters in MLB last season.

I don't see him improving.

And no worry, just don't want to see that slug starting.

I'm not advocating for him. Just saying - this is going to be a year where some players who don't belong in their roles keep them. And yeah I HOPE we sign some pitchers that are still standing when the free agency money song ends. Find a diamond in the rough for cheap and flip him at the AS break.

Some other members here are still trying to figure out a roster that competes. They are going to be disappointed IMO.

[CCard]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

Yes, STL pitching is poor. STL is a pitchers park and the team was 21st in ERA. They need an infusion of talent. Not just two guys. Problem is there are only three potential sources.

Farm system - there are a few guys but not enough to overhaul the starters and pen. Using the very best they have and development be darned they are still below average. And they ruin some young arms that might become something better.

Free Agency - they are not going to spend large this year. And sadly they would need to add at least 3-5 above average arms to think about competing with the playoff teams. The cost to do that is north of $80 mil a year. Never mind the missing offense.

International - the days when a great player could be found and signed for a song are over. That channel is closed since all the teams now scout everywhere.

STL will not have a good pitching staff in 2026. Hopefully there will be some pleasant surprises come from the farm to build on. And hopefully the same happens on the offensive side.

As for Mikolas he is a free agent and no way he returns to STL. Pallante was a mystery last year. He pitched much better prior to 2025. Perhaps he played thru something or whatever. In either case it hurts his expected ARB cost and I suspect he is already inked in the rotation for 2025 to see if 2025 was an aberration.

Pallante is a pitch to contact pitcher. He gets a lot of ground balls, the problem is when his luck is bad they go through the holes a lot. Liam might slot right in and I expect the other young pitchers to continue to progress but they really need that one guy that they can slot in as a number 1 or 2 with Gray. Then they really need to get at least one more reliable strikeout pitcher for the bullpen. Two would be nice. There's no reason they can't contend for a playoff spot next year. The money is there and the young talent is there.

[CCard]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

Doing better than Pallante and Mikolas should not be difficult.
How is your fastball and do you throw a breaking ball?
You just might be a step up

LOL...I can't throw my socks in the clothes hamper, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I take your meaning though, they are really bottom of the barrel pitchers. The Cards have definitely traded away better.

[rockondlouie]

No doubt

Toss in Fedde and it would be hard to believe you could field three worse starting pitchers.

(And if he's back, then Pallante can't be in the SR! The only way it happens is if BDWJr is too cheap to give C. Bloom some money to add a starting pitcher or two)

First yes I do believe they will put him in the rotation. They are not going to spend a lot of money and they need innings. Plus, he was a lot better prior to 2025 so who knows maybe he rebounds. As a rebuilding team why worry?

He's only a "last resort" starter AZC.

If Bloom can deal NADO and/or Gray or WillyC, then I could see BDWJr letting him use any savings for player additions.

Won't be a lot of money since Dewitt will have to eat large sums of NADO and Gray's deal just to get a decent return but could be enough for Bloom to find an upgrade over the pitiful Pallante.

What he did in 2024 may have just been the league not seeing him as a starter.

Once they had a book on him, he was one of the worst starters in MLB last season.

I don't see him improving.

And no worry, just don't want to see that slug starting.

I'm not advocating for him. Just saying - this is going to be a year where some players who don't belong in their roles keep them. And yeah I HOPE we sign some pitchers that are still standing when the free agency money song ends. Find a diamond in the rough for cheap and flip him at the AS break.

Some other members here are still trying to figure out a roster that competes. They are going to be disappointed IMO.

I sure hope not, to me that was 2025 and Mo.

I'm hopefully Bloom sweeps out a lot of deadwood (and that includes Pallante), gives some more of the kids down below a clearer path and adds some under-the-radar (re: affordable) major league players via trades and free agency (if BDWJr gives him some payroll to play with).

May surprise you but I think Bloom can do this and field a team that's better than the 2025 team, one that may surprise a good portion of our fan base.

They won't win 95 games, but w/some slick moves (while still focusing on the LT goals) they could win 85+.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

They'll need innings next year. They should have Pallante and anyone else that they think can start prepare as one over the winter. I also think they bring in a reclamation-type guy or two.

[CCard]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

Neither Walker or Scott should be in STL come April. Walker should be in AAA (ops+ 24: 72, ops+ 25: 66) until his bat suggests otherwise and Scott's smaller sample size shows him to be even worse at the plate. Ops+ last yr: 72. This yr: 41.

He might have defense going for him but until/unless he can show an improved approach against mlb pitching, at the plate he's becoming a decent-hitting pitcher, at best.

For one, who are you replacing either with? Who has as much promise? Young players seldom burn down the house the first couple of years and to be quite honest, they jerked Walker around trying to make him a homerun hitter. He has the power to hit homeruns but it isn't his natural swing. As for Scott, some one needs to tell him he's not a homerun hitter. He needs to hit the ball on the ground and line drives. Take advantage of his speed. He also needs to be a lot more aggressive on the bases. Somebody get Vince Coleman on the line.

[CCard]

Those two alone would be addition by subtraction. Let's put someone in that can actually strike people out consistently. Enough with the pitch to contact batted ball luck pitcher. Bring up Whetherholt and put him at 2nd or 3rd depending on who's traded. Walker and Scott should both be better after getting used to major league pitching. If they're still struggling at the all-star break then send them down until they get better or a better option appears available. Noot needs to go. He's TO lite. Can't stay on the field and not really that great when he does. Herrera at catcher or DH. Contreras at 1st and occasionally DH. Then bring in or promote real talent for the bullpen. People that can be counted on to strike people out and not throw gas on the fire. This makes the Cards a playoff contender. Splurge and get a big name pitcher would be great also.

I’m keeping Scott whether he hits or not. Defense particularly up the middle defense is way too valuable. You accurately mentioned no K’s and too much pitchgo get it. to contact; why then get rid of Scott who can do just that-

Yeah, I misspoke on Scott. He's in CF unless he can't hold a bat. If they even get around 200 - 250 out of him I'd be happy. Especially if he starts stealing bases like he can. I mean, who do they replace him with?