I have a question for the baseball minds here.

[sikeston bulldog2]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

You are wrong again.

I like Mel’s take.

[OldRed]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

A runner can retreat back towards home unless he touches the plate. Yes, it is allowed. He is not automatically out.

[rockondlouie]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

A runner can retreat back towards home unless he touches the plate. Yes, it is allowed. He is not automatically out.

Yea I amended my other post after you replied.

I started to recall hitter/runners back peddling towards the plate being chased and tagged out.

Again, now I'm confused but I still don't think the run counts if it's the 3rd out.

Who knows.

[OldRed]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

A runner can retreat back towards home unless he touches the plate. Yes, it is allowed. He is not automatically out.

Yea I amended my other post after you replied.

I started to recall hitter/runners back peddling towards the plate being chased and tagged out.

Again, now I'm confused but I still don't think the run counts.

Who knows.

I'd hate to be the umpire . . . LOL

[rockondlouie]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

A runner can retreat back towards home unless he touches the plate. Yes, it is allowed. He is not automatically out.

Yea I amended my other post after you replied.

I started to recall hitter/runners back peddling towards the plate being chased and tagged out.

Again, now I'm confused but I still don't think the run counts if it's the 3rd out.

Who knows.

I'd hate to be the umpire . . . LOL

I hated umpires

(And I found that Baez video you cited)

[OldRed]

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE

[sp25]

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE

The Pirates released Will Craig shortly thereafter, ending his baseball career. A very poor play on his part.

[JohnnyMO]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

This would be another great opportunity to prove you actually can admit you’re wrong. Because that is just flat out incorrect and easy to verify.

[dugoutrex]

great video

[Melville]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

You are wrong again.

I like Mel’s take.

I had it right the first time.
And it isn't "my take".
It is the rule.
An attempt to tag a player does not negate that it is still a force play scenario.
If the batter fails to reach 1B safely for any reason, he is out.
"Under rule 5.08 (a), no run can score when an inning ends in a force out, OR WHEN THE BATTER-RUNNER MAKES THE THIRD OUT BEFORE REACHING FIRST BASE, or a preceding runner is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases. However, when those conditions are not met, if the third out of the inning results in a non-force tag-out of a trail runner, or the tag of a base such as doubling-up a runner, while the lead runner is heading to the plate, it becomes a race against time when judging whether or not a run should score-thus the term “Time Play.”
https://baseballrulesacademy.com/multip ... ore-a-run/

[Melville]

Here is further explanation and an example, provided by MLB itself:
"Rule 5.08 Comment:
APPROVED RULING:No run shall score during a play
in which the third out is made by the batter-runner before
he touches first base. Example: One out, Jones on sec
ond, Smith on first. The batter, Brown, hits safely. Jones
scores. Smith is out on the throw to the plate. Two outs.
But Brown missed first base. The ball is thrown to first,
an appeal is made, and Brown is out. Three outs. Since
Jones crossed the plate during a play in which the third
out was made by the batter-runner before he touched first
base, Jones’ run does not count.
https://baseballrulesacademy.com/multip ... ore-a-run/

[Melville]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

This would be another great opportunity to prove you actually can admit you’re wrong. Because that is just flat out incorrect and easy to verify.

Better yet, it is an opportunity for you to admit I am right.
I have posted the rule - with links.
Never about me.
Only and always about the game.
And the rules of the game.

[Melville]

I should point out there in one specific exception.
If the runner on third is Ohtani, or the batter attempting to reach first base is Ohtani - the run must count.
This is commonly known as the "Ohtani Exception" and should not be confused with the "Ohtani rule".
The former applies only when Ohtani is a base runner, the latter applies only when he is a starting pitcher and DH.

[Melville]

The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

A runner can retreat back towards home unless he touches the plate. Yes, it is allowed. He is not automatically out.

Yea I amended my other post after you replied.

I started to recall hitter/runners back peddling towards the plate being chased and tagged out.

Again, now I'm confused but I still don't think the run counts if it's the 3rd out.

Who knows.

I do.
Because the language of the rule is very clear and specific on this point.

[opti mist]

The run does NOT count. The batter-runner’s out removes the force after the runner crossed the plate, but the force was still active at the moment of crossing.

Opti

[Melville]

The run does NOT count. The batter-runner’s out removes the force after the runner crossed the plate, but the force was still active at the moment of crossing.

Opti

Exactly right.
Not complicated.
Rule is crystal clear.