A Whole Lot of "We're Going to See"

[An Old Friend]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

[ecleme22]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Picture if “we are going to see if” was a cat with 9 lives.

JJ has 9 lives
VS has 4-6 lives
NG has 1-1.5 lives
And so on…

Just because all three are on the 2026 OD roster, doesn’t mean all have the same leash length.

[Ozziesfan41]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

[AZ_Cardsfan]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

Look it's the hand he has. Bloom inherited this team. Dumping a guy like Gorman is dumb. Walker worse yet. Keep in mind Walker is younger than JJ.

Yeah we might watch a lot of frustration again. But selling low on them is a waste of time. Until someone comes along that is better let's see if one of them suddenly finds something.

Since 2026 is rebuild out in the open no issue giving Gorman and Walker another long look. Nothing to lose and they aren't blocking much so heck, one of them might find something.

[Talkin' Baseball]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

This is a hopeful and plausible take.

[Hoosier59]

So many want to see the team fixed NOW. Here is a clue - they can't.

Bloom inherited a team that was a loser last year. Has zero star power on either side of the ball. And any money that might be spent on free agents is already tied up in aging players at the tail end of their contracts. Typically that isn't when you get value.

Mix it all up with declining fan base (justifiably) and a looming lockout/strike and what you have is the perfect storm of 2026 will clearly be a year of shaking out what they have and aiming at 2027 and beyond. A rebuild. Or tanking as one member here constantly calls it. It isn't Blooms fault they need to give Gorman and Walker another lengthy audition. It isn't his fault the pitching is a mess.

In short you guys really need to back off demands of Bloom his first year. And some of you are going to be upset with the deals he makes I'm certain. I know if I were him I'd be dealing Donovan for the best prospect I can get back. I'd also be dealing at least one of the catching prospects we have for more pitching or OF prospects.

And I'd be signing several aging FA pitchers that are not exciting because all it takes is one to have a good first half and you get another high end prospect for him.

My guess is we see lots of motion starting at the Winter Meetings and possibly some Rule 5 action. There is no attachment by Bloom to any of this team so I expect movement.

God I hope so. This team needs a massive shakeup.

I was in pretty much agreement on everything you said until… you said you’d trade Donovan! Why trade your best all-around player for what will most likely just be somebody we hope pans out, but probably won’t end being as good!
Maybe there’s a team out there that sees all of his intangible assets, but will they be willing to pay up for those?
Keeping Donovan allows Bloom to add either an outfield bat ( most likely) or an infielder that can hit. Donovan’s versatility being he can play 2nd, 3rd, or LF. Putting a solid hitter in which ever position he ends up playing. The Cardinals need to add, not subtract.

[Cusecards]

Ivan won't be a catcher.

I hope you're right on that. I wasn't impressed with him behind the plate. Besides, his hitting is his calling card anyway. Let the man hit. If you have to put him anywhere, put him on first or left field.

Agree on Herrera NOT being the answer at Catcher:
Below average defensively there.
Multiple potential Catching prospects.
Good bat will be even better not having the wear and tear of catching.

[Ozziesfan41]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

Look it's the hand he has. Bloom inherited this team. Dumping a guy like Gorman is dumb. Walker worse yet. Keep in mind Walker is younger than JJ.

Yeah we might watch a lot of frustration again. But selling low on them is a waste of time. Until someone comes along that is better let's see if one of them suddenly finds something.

Since 2026 is rebuild out in the open no issue giving Gorman and Walker another long look. Nothing to lose and they aren't blocking much so heck, one of them might find something.

I’m fine with keeping walker but Gorman would be dumb to keep he’s going to suck again. Brown worked with him in the offseason last season he sucked again and brown is back. Gorman will be a sub .700 ops high strike out low on base low average poor defensive player again. He’s proven it in close to 1600 at bats. Continuing to try to build around players like him that are awful is dumb. But hey if bloom wants be dumb like mo and keep Gorman around until he has next to zero trade value then trade him like mo did with Carlson good for him more of the same mo SOPs

[JohnnyMO]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

Look it's the hand he has. Bloom inherited this team. Dumping a guy like Gorman is dumb. Walker worse yet. Keep in mind Walker is younger than JJ.

Yeah we might watch a lot of frustration again. But selling low on them is a waste of time. Until someone comes along that is better let's see if one of them suddenly finds something.

Since 2026 is rebuild out in the open no issue giving Gorman and Walker another long look. Nothing to lose and they aren't blocking much so heck, one of them might find something.

I’m fine with keeping walker but Gorman would be dumb to keep he’s going to suck again. Brown worked with him in the offseason last season he sucked again and brown is back. Gorman will be a sub .700 ops high strike out low on base low average poor defensive player again. He’s proven it in close to 1600 at bats. Continuing to try to build around players like him that are awful is dumb

Again - assuming Arenado is gone - who do you want to give 550 at bats at 3rd base in a rebuild year?

[Ozziesfan41]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

Look it's the hand he has. Bloom inherited this team. Dumping a guy like Gorman is dumb. Walker worse yet. Keep in mind Walker is younger than JJ.

Yeah we might watch a lot of frustration again. But selling low on them is a waste of time. Until someone comes along that is better let's see if one of them suddenly finds something.

Since 2026 is rebuild out in the open no issue giving Gorman and Walker another long look. Nothing to lose and they aren't blocking much so heck, one of them might find something.

I’m fine with keeping walker but Gorman would be dumb to keep he’s going to suck again. Brown worked with him in the offseason last season he sucked again and brown is back. Gorman will be a sub .700 ops high strike out low on base low average poor defensive player again. He’s proven it in close to 1600 at bats. Continuing to try to build around players like him that are awful is dumb

Again - assuming Arenado is gone - who do you want to give 550 at bats at 3rd base in a rebuild year?

Hopefully with all the trades he makes one will be for a third base prospect I don’t know why people are stuck in the this is the only team that will come back and only players that will come back mindset. I don’t need to see Gorman suck again I’ve seen it he sucks he will suck again. I don’t know why people are obsessed with keeping and building around players who suck

[AZ_Cardsfan]

So many want to see the team fixed NOW. Here is a clue - they can't.

Bloom inherited a team that was a loser last year. Has zero star power on either side of the ball. And any money that might be spent on free agents is already tied up in aging players at the tail end of their contracts. Typically that isn't when you get value.

Mix it all up with declining fan base (justifiably) and a looming lockout/strike and what you have is the perfect storm of 2026 will clearly be a year of shaking out what they have and aiming at 2027 and beyond. A rebuild. Or tanking as one member here constantly calls it. It isn't Blooms fault they need to give Gorman and Walker another lengthy audition. It isn't his fault the pitching is a mess.

In short you guys really need to back off demands of Bloom his first year. And some of you are going to be upset with the deals he makes I'm certain. I know if I were him I'd be dealing Donovan for the best prospect I can get back. I'd also be dealing at least one of the catching prospects we have for more pitching or OF prospects.

And I'd be signing several aging FA pitchers that are not exciting because all it takes is one to have a good first half and you get another high end prospect for him.

My guess is we see lots of motion starting at the Winter Meetings and possibly some Rule 5 action. There is no attachment by Bloom to any of this team so I expect movement.

God I hope so. This team needs a massive shakeup.

I was in pretty much agreement on everything you said until… you said you’d trade Donovan! Why trade your best all-around player for what will most likely just be somebody we hope pans out, but probably won’t end being as good!
Maybe there’s a team out there that sees all of his intangible assets, but will they be willing to pay up for those?
Keeping Donovan allows Bloom to add either an outfield bat ( most likely) or an infielder that can hit. Donovan’s versatility being he can play 2nd, 3rd, or LF. Putting a solid hitter in which ever position he ends up playing. The Cardinals need to add, not subtract.

I get where you are coming from. And if this was a competitive team missing a few parts I'd agree with you. But it isn't. It is in rebuild and will not be in the chase next year. This is why I would deal him.

1) Control. I can't find it but I THINK he is a free agent in 2028. Since 2026 is a rebuild year and 2027 is 50-50 if they will be competitive I don't expect he will be part of the next Cardinals team that threatens to win a WS. Prospects might be.

2) He probably just had his career season. His breakout. We have seen his peak. And it is nice. As you note position flexibility and a solid bat. But special? No. 775 OPS is not core player value. To a team missing one or two pieces he is very valuable and price tag is good. His value will never be higher.

3) I believe they could land several prospects. Yeah, sometimes they don't pan out. But getting more "potential" stars under years of control is how a rebuild is successful. Gotta hope Bloom lands someone productive in the 2028-2034 years when hopefully the rebuild has them in the hunt every year.

Some here overvalue him as a player. Yup is is a good player. But he is not an elite player that carries a team. And with STL going nowhere next year he is a luxury - IMO. I am baffled that some folks still worry about what next years W/L record will be. There is really no difference between winning 70 games and 75.

[Goldfan]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

So this season was SPECIFICALLY designate as the season for YOUTH to play an entire year……stress free…..to allow all to blossom….
GORMAN and WALKER were BAD…..very bad…..
And yet CTers see no reason why they don’t waste ANOTHER season to allow these players to blossom or at least look like ML players
To that I ask…..as I’m sure OZ is curious as well….
Why dont you want, require, need a Better player who can actually hit the ball to be slotted in the staring lineup???
Do you actually think Gorman can correct his well established tendency to pull of the ball??? They tried to close him up this last season and he had 0 power.. he went back to open stance and every now and then at least he’d hit a HR….hitting .200
Wake up……some players flame out of MLB after league figures them out and they can’t adjust……this isn’t a lifeline to perpetual chances til they’re 30

[An Old Friend]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

I think it’s odd that even THE TEAM acknowledged that they had big failings in player development, and you’re calling that B S, that player development is fine and it’s just that the players suck.

What an absurd and INSANE position to take

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I’m fine with keeping walker but Gorman would be dumb to keep he’s going to suck again. Brown worked with him in the offseason last season he sucked again and brown is back. Gorman will be a sub .700 ops high strike out low on base low average poor defensive player again. He’s proven it in close to 1600 at bats. Continuing to try to build around players like him that are awful is dumb. But hey if bloom wants be dumb like mo and keep Gorman around until he has next to zero trade value then trade him like mo did with Carlson good for him more of the same mo SOPs

Well I won't lose sleep either way. Keep him or find someone who thinks they can fix him. But at 25 with no trade value right now I'd keep him and hope for a miracle.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

So this season was SPECIFICALLY designate as the season for YOUTH to play an entire year……stress free…..to allow all to blossom….
GORMAN and WALKER were BAD…..very bad…..
And yet CTers see no reason why they don’t waste ANOTHER season to allow these players to blossom or at least look like ML players
To that I ask…..as I’m sure OZ is curious as well….
Why dont you want, require, need a Better player who can actually hit the ball to be slotted in the staring lineup???
Do you actually think Gorman can correct his well established tendency to pull of the ball??? They tried to close him up this last season and he had 0 power.. he went back to open stance and every now and then at least he’d hit a HR….hitting .200
Wake up……some players flame out of MLB after league figures them out and they can’t adjust……this isn’t a lifeline to perpetual chances til they’re 30

Where are these better players that hit coming from? We know they aren't going to be spending large this year. Unless you think one of them is being blocked in the minors who do you play? BTW I'm fine giving Saggesse open competition with Gorman. And any OFer in the system a look see. But don't expect them to go outside the org to sign anyone.

[Goldfan]

We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Some of those questions have been answered already bloom may just be too dumb to see it though and needs another year to see the glaringly obvious

OR

Bloom is smart and wants to see these guys with an offseason of more proper and directed development.

You’re calling Bloom dumb before he’s had a chance to do anything. Longer rope.

lol might as well bring back Piscotty and Carlson also give them another season with more proper directed development lol anyone that thinks bloom is such a miracle worker he’s going to be transforming awful players into gold is going to be very disappointed. It isn’t failed development that keeps walker and Gorman flailing at pitches. He won’t cast spells of pitch recognition on them. But hey it’s only what five more years of watching them continue to suck before they finally realize hey they suck. And what more proper development they’re bringing back the same hitting coach and staff. Remember all the talk of brown working with them the past offseason yea it’s him again

I think it’s odd that even THE TEAM acknowledged that they had big failings in player development, and you’re calling that B S, that player development is fine and it’s just that the players suck.

What an absurd and INSANE position to take

And you think multi year ML disappointments who attempted to change and fix swing several times and still have very glaring holes can
Be rejuvenated?? Somehow Gorman after 20yrs of hitting with his open stance and only being able to generate his power that way…..Will redesign his entire swing…..Under Blooms magic…..and actually stay on pitches AND maintain his power.