What have been the Cards biggest blunders?

[HOUCARD]

This is the one that sticks in my mind........Gibson, Reuss, Carlton, Torrez, Briles. What a rotation they could have had for years. Perhaps another WS title or two. Trading Carlton, Reuss, and Torrez was the downfall of the 70's. Carlton for Rick Wise, Reuss for Scipio Spinks and Lance Clemons. Torrez for Bob Reynolds. After Gibson retired they would still have had a great rotation.

That short period of time killed a dynasty.

I'm an old dude so remember. If memory serves me, they lost Carlton over $10,000. Gibby made $100,000/year and Carlton wanted $10,000 more than the $90,000 the Cards offerred. Club said no one makes Gibby money..... Scipio Spinks was said to be able to throw a strawberry through the side of a battleship. Then, he blew out his arm and it was over before it started. I don't think Torrez was a particularly hot prospect for the Cards. Then the Yankees got him and he became a stud.

Jose Cruz to the Astros and Andy VanSlyke to the Pirates were lousey trades too.

[mattmitchl44]

Recently, it has been giving unnecessary extensions a year too early to multiple players over age 30 (Carpenter, Molina, Mikolas, even Goldschmidt's which might have been cheaper after his first down season in 2019 in St. Louis).

[2ninr]

Recently it’s lowering payroll. It’s way harder to get fans back than to loose them. Dropping payroll by $50m last season and possibly
Even more this off season has changed fans perception. The recipe is a top 11 payroll with draft and develop. 2006-2011 they were 11th on opening day and top 10 end of season. Also in 2022 payroll was 178m and the estimated profit according to Forbes was $48m this season $128m payroll and estimated profit is $2m. Clearly spending creates more profit and a chance to compete.

Those fans were on their way out the door before they lowered the payroll. Arrogance is what killed attendence.

[Carp4Cy]

Recently it’s lowering payroll. It’s way harder to get fans back than to loose them. Dropping payroll by $50m last season and possibly
Even more this off season has changed fans perception. The recipe is a top 11 payroll with draft and develop. 2006-2011 they were 11th on opening day and top 10 end of season. Also in 2022 payroll was 178m and the estimated profit according to Forbes was $48m this season $128m payroll and estimated profit is $2m. Clearly spending creates more profit and a chance to compete.

even Forbes is guessing - no one really knows

That does not invalidate his point. Its directionally intuitive, as the Cardinals have sold a lot less tickets and merchandise and food and beverage at the ballpark and have a lot fewer tv viewers than four years ago.

[Carp4Cy]

Maybe not the biggest, but I’d mention hiring Ollie and allowing him to totally botch the pitching management versus the Phillies in 2022 game one.

If we win that one then come back and hit vs the game 3 starter that entire postseason could have looked so much different.

[Carp4Cy]

Of course the draft is an easy one, but taking Zach thomson instead of Gunnar Henderson. Then drafting Hjerpe instead of pretty much anyone else. I and many others didn’t even like that one at the time

[Boooyah]

Allowing MO to sign any relief pitcher.

[rockondlouie]

ABJr's ego getting the best of him and forcing the S. Carlton trade is w/o a doubt the #1 blunder in Cardinals history.

JMO but that move (coupled w/him doing the same later w/J. Reuss) cost the Cardinals a couple more World Series flags flying over Busch Stadium in the 1970's.

In recent Cardinals history, Mo's blunder dealing away both S. Alcantara & Z. Gallen was a major faux pas along w/hiring three mediocre managers.

BDWJr made two major blunders: 1) keeping Mo way past his expiration date & 2) not signing Max Scherzer when he wanted to come home (and Dewitt himself has said this was his major blunder).

[rockondlouie]

This is the one that sticks in my mind........Gibson, Reuss, Carlton, Torrez, Briles. What a rotation they could have had for years. Perhaps another WS title or two. Trading Carlton, Reuss, and Torrez was the downfall of the 70's. Carlton for Rick Wise, Reuss for Scipio Spinks and Lance Clemons. Torrez for Bob Reynolds. After Gibson retired they would still have had a great rotation.

That short period of time killed a dynasty.

I'm an old dude so remember. If memory serves me, they lost Carlton over $10,000. Gibby made $100,000/year and Carlton wanted $10,000 more than the $90,000 the Cards offerred. Club said no one makes Gibby money..... Scipio Spinks was said to be able to throw a strawberry through the side of a battleship. Then, he blew out his arm and it was over before it started. I don't think Torrez was a particularly hot prospect for the Cards. Then the Yankees got him and he became a stud.

Jose Cruz to the Astros and Andy VanSlyke to the Pirates were lousey trades too.

Even worse HouCard, it was over $5,000!

T. McCarver once told the story that Lefty was driving down Hwy 40 to sign the deal when he heard on KMOX he'd been dealt to the Phillies.

[Youboughtit]

Recently it’s lowering payroll. It’s way harder to get fans back than to loose them. Dropping payroll by $50m last season and possibly
Even more this off season has changed fans perception. The recipe is a top 11 payroll with draft and develop. 2006-2011 they were 11th on opening day and top 10 end of season. Also in 2022 payroll was 178m and the estimated profit according to Forbes was $48m this season $128m payroll and estimated profit is $2m. Clearly spending creates more profit and a chance to compete.

Those fans were on their way out the door before they lowered the payroll. Arrogance is what killed attendence.

Not true. My family has season tickets for 30 years. In 1982 our 2 seats and reserved parking was $18 per game. Before Covid when we stopped our 4 seats that weren’t as good were $14k per season and have increased 3 times since then. I have not been to a game in 2 years for 1 reason. I go to see future HOF caliber players in their prime. I root for the team to win but I want to see superstars. I think a lot of fans feel the same way.

[Rocket Scientist]

Not firing Mo... being afraid of the dirty laundry firing Mo would bring out. Fear put the the franchise from on top, to the trash heap

[kscardsfan]

Another blunder in my mind will not be popular with a lot of folks on here. Trading Ted Simmons, Rollie Fingers, and Pete Vuckovich for David Green and Sixto Lezcano, Dave LaPoint and Lary Sorensen. Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen and Rick Ownby. Yeah he won a WS but maybe gave away more than one. He didn't think Simmons could catch well enough. Well enough for what? He made it to that WS also. He sent Hernandez out over his drug problem. Yet brought in Porter who apparently had a worse problem. I liked his style baseball but his arrogance cost the Team imo.

[moose-and-squirrel]

Another blunder in my mind will not be popular with a lot of folks on here. Trading Ted Simmons, Rollie Fingers, and Pete Vuckovich for David Green and Sixto Lezcano, Dave LaPoint and Lary Sorensen. Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen and Rick Ownby. Yeah he won a WS but maybe gave away more than one. He didn't think Simmons could catch well enough. Well enough for what? He made it to that WS also. He sent Hernandez out over his drug problem. Yet brought in Porter who apparently had a worse problem. I liked his style baseball but his arrogance cost the Team imo.

you're exacty right. those were TURRIBLE trades

[82birds]

This is the one that sticks in my mind........Gibson, Reuss, Carlton, Torrez, Briles. What a rotation they could have had for years. Perhaps another WS title or two. Trading Carlton, Reuss, and Torrez was the downfall of the 70's. Carlton for Rick Wise, Reuss for Scipio Spinks and Lance Clemons. Torrez for Bob Reynolds. After Gibson retired they would still have had a great rotation.

That short period of time killed a dynasty.

no doubt the Steve Carlton trade was momentous blunder.
horr-i-ble

[2ninr]

Recently it’s lowering payroll. It’s way harder to get fans back than to loose them. Dropping payroll by $50m last season and possibly
Even more this off season has changed fans perception. The recipe is a top 11 payroll with draft and develop. 2006-2011 they were 11th on opening day and top 10 end of season. Also in 2022 payroll was 178m and the estimated profit according to Forbes was $48m this season $128m payroll and estimated profit is $2m. Clearly spending creates more profit and a chance to compete.

Those fans were on their way out the door before they lowered the payroll. Arrogance is what killed attendence.

Not true. My family has season tickets for 30 years. In 1982 our 2 seats and reserved parking was $18 per game. Before Covid when we stopped our 4 seats that weren’t as good were $14k per season and have increased 3 times since then. I have not been to a game in 2 years for 1 reason. I go to see future HOF caliber players in their prime. I root for the team to win but I want to see superstars. I think a lot of fans feel the same way.

I understand. Can we both be right?

[BrummerStealsHome]

Their response to the Denkinger call

Funny, but we went to the same year. The very first thing that popped into my head was Vince Coleman blundering into the autotarp. The fastest man in baseball should have been able to avoidan object traveling a few inches per second