Can Victor Scott

[Ozziesfan41]

Bader was a much better overall player than VS and he was run out on a rail

He was a somewhat better player according to bWAR... worth 2.6 WAR per season in his time with STL compared to Scott's 2.2 in 2025. And he didn't have the elite speed and exciting base-stealing.

But rest assured, fans will give up on Scott if he doesn't improve much sooner than they did Bader, after year 2 I'd bet.

Well some people went from he has a sweet swing and was ready to skip straight to the majors based on them seeing his 44 spring training at bats to he sucks and will never hit in the majors in two seasons so it doesn’t take much for some to give up on a player

[rockondlouie]

He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

Well let's see.........

Hamilton age 24 season:

4 HR
57 SB's
.226 .274 .289 .563

VSII age 24 season:

5 HR
34 SB's
.216 .305 .296 .601

And you'd also be wrong stating that "Scott is a better defender":

Hamilton had 22 OAA in 2016 (first year stat was available)
VSII had 16 OAA in 2025

VSII (190 lbs) is much bigger and stronger than the razor thin Hamilton (160 lbs) but their slg%'s are remarkably close in their age 24 seasons while Hamilton was the superior base stealer and defensive CFer.

Unless C. Bloom can come up w/a better option in CF next season, then VSII will get another chance to show he can get on base or he's tossed to the scrap pile like J. Walker & N. Gorman will be if they fail in 2025.

Yeah, those stats for Hamilton fit my memory of him. A great defensive CF with great speed and a weak bat. Very comparable to Scott today. But Oli will never let him steal 57 bases. Not in his DNA. He likes to wait for the 3-run HR on a team with little HR power.

Just blows my mind how many times VSII would actually get on base w/noone on 2nd and Oli would ANCHOR him to the bag.

With a .320-.330 OB% VSII could easily swipe 100 bases (89% success rate last season!) ala V. Coleman.

But will he ever get to that OB% level?

How many times were those opportunities? Was a lefty pitching? 2 Outs? Curious...

He had 86 hits, 15 were doubles and 34 SBs in 42 attempts. Add in 1 triple and 5 hrs

Your forgot to add in the potential double play balls he beat out and was on first leaving no runner at 2nd, errors he reached first on as well as walks (he had 42).

Trust me scouty he was on first countless times and for some insane reason Oli anchored him there.

If you could check old GDT's, then you'd see me yapping about this so many times.

(And lefty on the mound matters not. L. Brock---expert base stealer--- once said lefties were much easier to steal off than righties).

[scoutyjones2]

He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

Well let's see.........

Hamilton age 24 season:

4 HR
57 SB's
.226 .274 .289 .563

VSII age 24 season:

5 HR
34 SB's
.216 .305 .296 .601

And you'd also be wrong stating that "Scott is a better defender":

Hamilton had 22 OAA in 2016 (first year stat was available)
VSII had 16 OAA in 2025

VSII (190 lbs) is much bigger and stronger than the razor thin Hamilton (160 lbs) but their slg%'s are remarkably close in their age 24 seasons while Hamilton was the superior base stealer and defensive CFer.

Unless C. Bloom can come up w/a better option in CF next season, then VSII will get another chance to show he can get on base or he's tossed to the scrap pile like J. Walker & N. Gorman will be if they fail in 2025.

Yeah, those stats for Hamilton fit my memory of him. A great defensive CF with great speed and a weak bat. Very comparable to Scott today. But Oli will never let him steal 57 bases. Not in his DNA. He likes to wait for the 3-run HR on a team with little HR power.

Just blows my mind how many times VSII would actually get on base w/noone on 2nd and Oli would ANCHOR him to the bag.

With a .320-.330 OB% VSII could easily swipe 100 bases (89% success rate last season!) ala V. Coleman.

But will he ever get to that OB% level?

How many times were those opportunities? Was a lefty pitching? 2 Outs? Curious...

He had 86 hits, 15 were doubles and 34 SBs in 42 attempts. Add in 1 triple and 5 hrs

Your forgot to add in the potential double play balls he beat out and was on first leaving no runner at 2nd, errors he reached first on as well as walks (he had 42).

Trust me scouty he was on first countless times and for some insane reason Oli anchored him there.

If you could check old GDT's, then you'd see me yapping about this so many times.

(And lefty on the mound matters not. L. Brock---expert base stealer--- once said lefties were much easier to steal off than righties).

Game has changed since the 70's. I just wanted to know if there was a documented place to see how often he was left stationary because I don't buy it

[icon]

He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

Well let's see.........

Hamilton age 24 season:

4 HR
57 SB's
.226 .274 .289 .563

VSII age 24 season:

5 HR
34 SB's
.216 .305 .296 .601

And you'd also be wrong stating that "Scott is a better defender":

Hamilton had 22 OAA in 2016 (first year stat was available)
VSII had 16 OAA in 2025

VSII (190 lbs) is much bigger and stronger than the razor thin Hamilton (160 lbs) but their slg%'s are remarkably close in their age 24 seasons while Hamilton was the superior base stealer and defensive CFer.

Unless C. Bloom can come up w/a better option in CF next season, then VSII will get another chance to show he can get on base or he's tossed to the scrap pile like J. Walker & N. Gorman will be if they fail in 2025.

Yeah, those stats for Hamilton fit my memory of him. A great defensive CF with great speed and a weak bat. Very comparable to Scott today. But Oli will never let him steal 57 bases. Not in his DNA. He likes to wait for the 3-run HR on a team with little HR power.

Just blows my mind how many times VSII would actually get on base w/noone on 2nd and Oli would ANCHOR him to the bag.

With a .320-.330 OB% VSII could easily swipe 100 bases (89% success rate last season!) ala V. Coleman.

But will he ever get to that OB% level?

How many times were those opportunities? Was a lefty pitching? 2 Outs? Curious...

He had 86 hits, 15 were doubles and 34 SBs in 42 attempts. Add in 1 triple and 5 hrs

Your forgot to add in the potential double play balls he beat out and was on first leaving no runner at 2nd, errors he reached first on as well as walks (he had 42).

Trust me scouty he was on first countless times and for some insane reason Oli anchored him there.

If you could check old GDT's, then you'd see me yapping about this so many times.

(And lefty on the mound matters not. L. Brock---expert base stealer--- once said lefties were much easier to steal off than righties).

And why didn't he attempt to steal 3B more often? Oli, that's why.

[jbrach]

I doubt that he will become a league average hitter. I would take the under on that. Maybe his best season at the plate is league average though.

If he can get above the 25th percentile, he would be an asset to his team... meaning an above average MLB player. That means about a .675 OPS. That is a more attainable goal, IMHO, for him.

He definitely needs to find ways to just get on base. Being a bunt threat, he should bring the infield in and then there should be more holes for him to find in it when he swings away. Being able to hit line drives to all 4 of the gaps will keep the outfielders from playing shallow.

we need to aim for something a lot better than a 675 OPS if we are going to have a solid offense...perhaps a team with 4 or 5 sluggers can carry such a bat

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I doubt that he will become a league average hitter. I would take the under on that. Maybe his best season at the plate is league average though.

If he can get above the 25th percentile, he would be an asset to his team... meaning an above average MLB player. That means about a .675 OPS. That is a more attainable goal, IMHO, for him.

He definitely needs to find ways to just get on base. Being a bunt threat, he should bring the infield in and then there should be more holes for him to find in it when he swings away. Being able to hit line drives to all 4 of the gaps will keep the outfielders from playing shallow.

we need to aim for something a lot better than a 675 OPS if we are going to have a solid offense...perhaps a team with 4 or 5 sluggers can carry such a bat

Have you looked at the Cardinals team stats for 2025? They were 24th in baseball with a .693 OPS. Of the 30 teams in baseball 12 of them got less than a 675 OPS out of the CF position.

https://www.mlb.com/mariners/stats/team ... n?split=p8

Of players who qualified with enough ABs playing CF 12 were over .675 OPS. One at 676 and another 677. The rest were over 700.

Frankly if VS gets over 675 OPS with a 325 OBP he would be an above average CFer for sure.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Can Victor Scott become a league average hitter? It seems like for the first two months of the season he was a much more dynamic offensive player than what we saw the last four months. So, yes or no question number one- do you think he can make adjustments and become a league average hitter. Yes on no question number two- if he does become a league average hitter is that enough for you to plug him into CF and stop looking for a center fielder? If he doesn't become a league average hitter, what then?

.263 BA .343 OBP .723 OPS in MiLB. If he can reach those levels in MLB, but maybe get the OPS up close to around .750, he’d be a keeper. I have my doubts he can maintain, much less improve those numbers at the ML level. I’m hopeful though, love the speed and defense. Much needed in this team.

[ClassicO]

The fixation with thinking improving his bunting will magically make him a valuable enough player to be a productive starter is puzzling.

What's puzzling is that you don't think 2 WAR is a productive starter.

He's already a productive starter at one of the most defensively important positions. The question isn't if he can be "productive" in general it's if he can be productive at the plate, which will make his total production borderline All-Star.

Clarification on "productive." He's defensively "productive." He's absolutely not offensively "productive."
And if you want a team to be in the playoffs, he's not your man. ALL other playoff teams except Cleveland had more productive CFs.
His fWAR was 1.7. That means he was 16th in fWAR among the 28 CFs with more than 400 PAs.
Almost all of that WAR was his defense, which was 3rd best.
So do I think this team - which desperately needs offense - can roll with a guy who absolutely can't hit? No. His AAA stats were: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs, so it's not like he's ever hit good pitching. They need to significantly improve offensive production at that position.

[ClassicO]

Can Victor Scott become a league average hitter? It seems like for the first two months of the season he was a much more dynamic offensive player than what we saw the last four months. So, yes or no question number one- do you think he can make adjustments and become a league average hitter. Yes on no question number two- if he does become a league average hitter is that enough for you to plug him into CF and stop looking for a center fielder? If he doesn't become a league average hitter, what then?

.263 BA .343 OBP .723 OPS in MiLB. If he can reach those levels in MLB, but maybe get the OPS up close to around .750, he’d be a keeper. I have my doubts he can maintain, much less improve those numbers at the ML level. I’m hopeful though, love the speed and defense. Much needed in this team.

That MiLB stat doesn't account for his AAA stats: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs
Those AAA numbers are basically his MLB stats: .206/.283/.293/.576 in 618 PAs.
He'll. Never. Hit.

Walker - .257/.331/.414/.745 in 529 PAs

Maybe we should wait until these guys light it up at AAA before we assume they can improve on AAA simply with more PAs at the next level.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Can Victor Scott become a league average hitter? It seems like for the first two months of the season he was a much more dynamic offensive player than what we saw the last four months. So, yes or no question number one- do you think he can make adjustments and become a league average hitter. Yes on no question number two- if he does become a league average hitter is that enough for you to plug him into CF and stop looking for a center fielder? If he doesn't become a league average hitter, what then?

.263 BA .343 OBP .723 OPS in MiLB. If he can reach those levels in MLB, but maybe get the OPS up close to around .750, he’d be a keeper. I have my doubts he can maintain, much less improve those numbers at the ML level. I’m hopeful though, love the speed and defense. Much needed in this team.

That MiLB stat doesn't account for his AAA stats: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs
Those AAA numbers are basically his MLB stats: .206/.283/.293/.576 in 618 PAs.
He'll. Never. Hit.

Walker - .257/.331/.414/.745 in 529 PAs

Maybe we should wait until these guys light it up at AAA before we assume they can improve on AAA simply with more PAs at the next level.

Didn’t mean to cherrypick, I must’ve read the wrong line on BB reference. The AAA stats are very telling as you stated them being in line with his MLB line. That’s unfortunate.

[ClassicO]

Can Victor Scott become a league average hitter? It seems like for the first two months of the season he was a much more dynamic offensive player than what we saw the last four months. So, yes or no question number one- do you think he can make adjustments and become a league average hitter. Yes on no question number two- if he does become a league average hitter is that enough for you to plug him into CF and stop looking for a center fielder? If he doesn't become a league average hitter, what then?

.263 BA .343 OBP .723 OPS in MiLB. If he can reach those levels in MLB, but maybe get the OPS up close to around .750, he’d be a keeper. I have my doubts he can maintain, much less improve those numbers at the ML level. I’m hopeful though, love the speed and defense. Much needed in this team.

That MiLB stat doesn't account for his AAA stats: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs
Those AAA numbers are basically his MLB stats: .206/.283/.293/.576 in 618 PAs.
He'll. Never. Hit.

Walker - .257/.331/.414/.745 in 529 PAs

Maybe we should wait until these guys light it up at AAA before we assume they can improve on AAA simply with more PAs at the next level.

Didn’t mean to cherrypick, I must’ve read the wrong line on BB reference. The AAA stats are very telling as you stated them being in line with his MLB line. That’s unfortunate.

I didn't think you were cherry-picking. I was just being more specific.
And while I agree with others that Scott isn't the main problem, it seems like a team that is concentrating on building a WS contender has to figure out who the guys are who could be key building blocks. I don't see him as a WS building block.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Can Victor Scott become a league average hitter? It seems like for the first two months of the season he was a much more dynamic offensive player than what we saw the last four months. So, yes or no question number one- do you think he can make adjustments and become a league average hitter. Yes on no question number two- if he does become a league average hitter is that enough for you to plug him into CF and stop looking for a center fielder? If he doesn't become a league average hitter, what then?

.263 BA .343 OBP .723 OPS in MiLB. If he can reach those levels in MLB, but maybe get the OPS up close to around .750, he’d be a keeper. I have my doubts he can maintain, much less improve those numbers at the ML level. I’m hopeful though, love the speed and defense. Much needed in this team.

That MiLB stat doesn't account for his AAA stats: .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs
Those AAA numbers are basically his MLB stats: .206/.283/.293/.576 in 618 PAs.
He'll. Never. Hit.

Walker - .257/.331/.414/.745 in 529 PAs

Maybe we should wait until these guys light it up at AAA before we assume they can improve on AAA simply with more PAs at the next level.

Didn’t mean to cherrypick, I must’ve read the wrong line on BB reference. The AAA stats are very telling as you stated them being in line with his MLB line. That’s unfortunate.

I didn't think you were cherry-picking. I was just being more specific.
And while I agree with others that Scott isn't the main problem, it seems like a team that is concentrating on building a WS contender has to figure out who the guys are who could be key building blocks. I don't see him as a WS building block.

Well I kind of did by accident and glad you pointed it out as it might’ve changed my perspective on VS. Hopefully it was a smaller sample size. I would look it up again but apparently I can’t read anyway Lol!