This offseason, how it will look (educating some of you)

[ecleme22]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

This is how it will look...

ON THE TRADE BLOCK
Donovan
Nootbar
Arenado
Gray
A young catcher or two
Contreras (maybe)
Gorman (maybe)
Walker (maybe)
Burleson (maybe)
Libby (longshot)

WHO WILL THEY PRIMARILY BE TRADED FOR:
Minor league prospects
Major leaguers with 2 or less years of service time.

WHO I THINK WILL BE SIGNED
2 short term starters on 1-2 year deals.
1 possibly a corner OFer on a 1-2 year deal.


That's it. Feel free to guess how the offseason will be like roughly in those parameters.

But anything that's "these 4 cardinals for one really good starter!", just stop....

[CorneliusWolfe]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

This is how it will look...

ON THE TRADE BLOCK
Donovan
Nootbar
Arenado
Gray
A young catcher or two
Contreras (maybe)
Gorman (maybe)
Walker (maybe
Burleson (maybe)
Libby (longshot)

WHO WILL THEY PRIMARILY BE TRADED FOR:
Minor league prospects
Major leaguers with 2 or less years of service time.

WHO I THINK WILL BE SIGNED
2 short term starters on 1-2 year deals.
1 possibly a corner OFer on a 1-2 year deal.


That's it. Feel free to guess how the offseason will be like roughly in those parameters.

But anything that's "these 4 cardinals for one really good starter!", just stop....

I’d say you laid it out pretty well, if not perfectly.

I could see where they ‘could’ package a couple of the older vets (Gray/WC/NA) in a trade for one of the stopgap starters you mention and eat some of the salaries, but not really BDW’s style. Guys like Donovan/Noot/Burleson will be traded for prospects like you said.

[ecleme22]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

This is how it will look...

ON THE TRADE BLOCK
Donovan
Nootbar
Arenado
Gray
A young catcher or two
Contreras (maybe)
Gorman (maybe)
Walker (maybe
Burleson (maybe)
Libby (longshot)

WHO WILL THEY PRIMARILY BE TRADED FOR:
Minor league prospects
Major leaguers with 2 or less years of service time.

WHO I THINK WILL BE SIGNED
2 short term starters on 1-2 year deals.
1 possibly a corner OFer on a 1-2 year deal.


That's it. Feel free to guess how the offseason will be like roughly in those parameters.

But anything that's "these 4 cardinals for one really good starter!", just stop....

I’d say you laid it out pretty well, if not perfectly.

I could see where they ‘could’ package a couple of the older vets (Gray/WC/NA) in a trade for one of the stopgap starters you mention and eat some of the salaries, but not really BDW’s style. Guys like Donovan/Noot/Burleson will be traded for prospects like you said.

Yep. And thanks!

The trade returns can also fall in the ‘short term signings’ list.

[Dicktar2023]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

[ecleme22]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

Mostly true.

We will see some movement maybe like we haven’t seen since the ‘23 deadline.

But if he’s shopping guys like crazy, and BD isn’t dealt, I trust that return, at the time, wasn’t worth it. But he should be gone.

[ICCFIM2]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

[Dicktar2023]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

You're way too optimistic. I like Alec Burleson, but a lineup where he's one of your 1-4 hitters is going to need starting pitching like we haven't seen in ten years. And we've got nothing like that even close to ready. We've been saying "you know, this team is only a MOTO bat and two really good starters away from contending" since when? Ozuna?

If we're doing this, do it right: make a list of the (value) guys you think are going to be here in three years and a list of the guys who aren't. Then move everyone on the second list.

If Herrera and Winn are long-term plans, then they'll ride it out. They'll both still be in their 20s in 4 years. As for Wetherholdt...let's not pretend this club is worried about him maturing too quickly.

[Cusecards]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

This is how it will look...

ON THE TRADE BLOCK
Donovan
Nootbar
Arenado
Gray
A young catcher or two
Contreras (maybe)
Gorman (maybe)
Walker (maybe)
Burleson (maybe)
Libby (longshot)

WHO WILL THEY PRIMARILY BE TRADED FOR:
Minor league prospects
Major leaguers with 2 or less years of service time.

WHO I THINK WILL BE SIGNED
2 short term starters on 1-2 year deals.
1 possibly a corner OFer on a 1-2 year deal.


That's it. Feel free to guess how the offseason will be like roughly in those parameters.

But anything that's "these 4 cardinals for one really good starter!", just stop....

Good thoughts
Looking forward to the Hot Stove!

[icon]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

6 decent bats? That's assuming a lot of things: JJ can be an .800 hitter in his rookie year, Contreras will not show signs of age, Herrera will stay healthy, Winn will be above average. The only guy you're adding is JJ, and this offense without him sucked.

Bring on the rebuild. Donovan must be on the bloc. Do NOT try to aim for a WC with this bunch. If it happens, it happens.

[Braund241]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

So you expect to bring up 3 kids at once to the starting rotation and expect them to perform to a point to contend with a basically mediocre group of everyday players. Good luck with that. This organization won’t win for years unless ownership changes their ways and spend money, which they won’t.

[Dicktar2023]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

So you expect to bring up 3 kids at once to the starting rotation and expect them to perform to a point to contend with a basically mediocre group of everyday players. Good luck with that. This organization won’t win for years unless ownership changes their ways and spend money, which they won’t.

I agreed until the last line. Payroll isn't the problem right now. We need prospects and a reliable system to develop them.

The time when we were a couple big free agents away from glory have come and gone. Now is the time to regroup.

[Quincy Varnish]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

Who is saying this?

[renostl]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

Mostly true.

We will see some movement maybe like we haven’t seen since the ‘23 deadline.

But if he’s shopping guys like crazy, and BD isn’t dealt, I trust that return, at the time, wasn’t worth it. But he should be gone.

Trades are incredibly difficult to predict.

Nobody knows how Bloom sees the prospects in the farm system let alone
how he assessed the 2025 runway players.

Agree with a lot of the thoughts you laid out and it coincides with what he said
about no short cuts or quick fixes. That goes with your mentioned vets and certainly
with the FA market.

But, had to be at least 1 but, a roster with DH's, Catchers, and 2B will get changed especially with having a
dearth of pitching that will drive him to make a choice with some [layers that currently occupy
those spots. LHB's might not back up LHB starters, a guy can dream. It's the offseason for the
Cards with a new POBO/GM.

[ICCFIM2]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

So you expect to bring up 3 kids at once to the starting rotation and expect them to perform to a point to contend with a basically mediocre group of everyday players. Good luck with that. This organization won’t win for years unless ownership changes their ways and spend money, which they won’t.

Nope, I don't expect them to bring up three kids at once and contend. That is why I think they won't/can't contend in 2026. But, what they can do next year is cycle through the pitchers to hopefully find three decent ones going into 2027. Then there are only 2 holes to fill. That is manageable.

[ICCFIM2]

Donavan and Gray will be the test of how serious this rebuild is. There is zero reason to keep those guys if you think you're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

If, on the other hand, you look at this past season and think "we were one winning series away from a WC spot," then you bring them back. And then you might as well re-sign Miles Mikolas. And have Mo come out of retirement to be GM.

This is too pessimistic with respect to the position players. Burleson finished 43rd in OPS. If Herrera would have had enough ABs to qualify, he would have finished 27th. Contreras finished 54th. Both Burleson and Herrera are young enough they can improve. Burleson will be 27 on opening day next year. If Wetherholdt is who we hope he will be, that would add another 800+ OPS hitter to the lineup. Add Donovan to that mix and hopefully a healthier Winn and you have 6 pretty decent guys. CF is a black hole, I assume Herrera will not catch and C is a black hole and RF is a black hole. They are really one 800+ OPS bat away in the OF from sporting a very decent line-up, albeit, no superstars.

The real issue is starting pitching. For certain unless they make some surprise trades for starters or surprise signings, they cannot contend with what they have. The minor league guys will not arrive until 2027 or 2028. The crop in the minors if they are willing to add 1 free agent SP that is a #1/2#2 and add a MOTO bat, then this team could contend in 2027 and for certain by 2028. You can't wait forever to contend. If you get a group of 5 or 6 starting players like those above, you need to add and go for it. If you trade them all away, you will be wasting the prime years of Wetherholdt, Herrera and Winn...

You're way too optimistic. I like Alec Burleson, but a lineup where he's one of your 1-4 hitters is going to need starting pitching like we haven't seen in ten years. And we've got nothing like that even close to ready. We've been saying "you know, this team is only a MOTO bat and two really good starters away from contending" since when? Ozuna?

If we're doing this, do it right: make a list of the (value) guys you think are going to be here in three years and a list of the guys who aren't. Then move everyone on the second list.

If Herrera and Winn are long-term plans, then they'll ride it out. They'll both still be in their 20s in 4 years. As for Wetherholdt...let's not pretend this club is worried about him maturing too quickly.

I understand your point. But, there are only 6 guys in ML baseball with an OPS above 900. None of those guys are going anywhere. The alternative plan is to accumulate as many 800+ OPS guys as possible and stack a line-up with them. Yep, the line-up was awful last year, I mentioned the black holes in the line-up. Way too many of those. Hopefully Wetherholdt fills the black hole that Arenado became. They do have too many holes to plug in 2026 unless one of the underachievers, Gorman, Walker, etc. are still here and actually hit.

When I look at our farm system, outside of Joah Baez and Wetherholdt, I don't see any additional impact bats coming by 2027. Baez could be a bust. Rodriguez may be great, but he is 3 years away. Bernal has not put up stats that scream he is going to be great. If the Cards walk away from all of the guys like Donovan, Nootbar (who they should trade), Gorman, Walker and Burleson to totally reload, unless they get some guys who are ML ready in return, the Cards are pushing out any chance to win to at least 4 years as you stated and that assumes the prospects pan out. Baseball is just to unpredictable when it comes to prospect development. If you have a group that is OK and missing 2-3 pieces, which is what the Cards line-up is missing, then move in a straight line to add those pieces. The SP is missing at least 3 pieces as well. So they need 6 players, which is too much to cover in 1 year. But, it can be done in 2. If you trade everyone away, you are the Pirates and the A's. No thank you.

[Bully4you]

Okay, some of you are talking about this offseason as if Bloom will trade his trade chips for vets who can help the roster in 2026.

This is how it will look...

ON THE TRADE BLOCK
Donovan
Nootbar
Arenado
Gray
A young catcher or two
Contreras (maybe)
Gorman (maybe)
Walker (maybe)
Burleson (maybe)
Libby (longshot)

WHO WILL THEY PRIMARILY BE TRADED FOR:
Minor league prospects
Major leaguers with 2 or less years of service time.

WHO I THINK WILL BE SIGNED
2 short term starters on 1-2 year deals.
1 possibly a corner OFer on a 1-2 year deal.


That's it. Feel free to guess how the offseason will be like roughly in those parameters.

But anything that's "these 4 cardinals for one really good starter!", just stop....

That's a chicken [shirt] plan if I ever saw one.
And it's not something that would make fans at all excited.
They'll have 15K a night if something like that is done.
And they won't even compete with the Pirates.
They might be #30 on the power rankings with your chicken [shirt] plan.